Time Nick Message 07:04 TenPlus1 Hi folks 07:04 TenPlus1 Question, are we moving away from using the minetest. commands entirely and replacing them with core. ??? 07:10 Krock TenPlus1: for historical reasons this can only be enforced in a major release, such as 6.0 07:10 Krock realistically I don't think it will ever be enforced. Maybe there will be recommendation. Who knows. 07:11 TenPlus1 Hi Krock, I'm hoping minetest. will be around as an alias so older mods wont break 07:12 TenPlus1 *around for a long time 07:13 * TenPlus1 awaits an official forum post to state their intentions :P 07:15 Krock I think every core developer and modder is aware of that. No need to panic. 07:22 TenPlus1 I just saw some mods in ContentDB being updated to use core. and it had me worried for a sec there :P 07:27 * TenPlus1 wonders if mod.conf will have similar changes eventually e.g. min_minetest_version 07:28 Krock TenPlus1: the more difficult question is likely on how to migrate the .conf files and ~/.minetest directory. 07:31 TenPlus1 good question, I suppose you could check for .minetest first of all and .luanti second if it isnt found 07:32 TenPlus1 same with minetest.conf, if found copy to luanti.conf and rename original 07:35 Krock renaming breaks scripts that rely on exact paths :3 07:36 Krock and you cannot symlink the files because Windows and filesystems that do not support symlinks. 07:36 TenPlus1 yeah, unless you alias the folders but dunno if windows handles thast well 07:36 TenPlus1 lol 07:37 Krock and a --migrate CLI option would only be used by a handful of users. So it can only be applied to new installs, hence just as you said. 07:37 TenPlus1 would have been easier sticking to Minetest as the name, lolol 07:38 sfan5 I think pro users can live with needing to adjust their scripts once in 10 years after a name change 07:39 TenPlus1 it's an easy change in the end, just gotta post something on the forums about it so everyone knows 07:39 TenPlus1 also Hi sfan5 07:41 TenPlus1 I suppose Luanti 6.0 would make for a good turning point when it comes to file/folder names and settings 07:47 TenPlus1 breakfast time, laters o// 09:15 [MatrxMT] Reminder: meeting today 09:16 [MatrxMT] I think inventory key and GUIDs should be the pivotal points, since we are/were supposed to release in a week, but I frankly don't see it happening 14:20 MTDiscord merging #16109, #16111, #16083 in 10m 14:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16109 -- Minor code improvements to image algorithms by sfan5 14:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16111 -- Purge some dead code (mostly Irrlicht) by appgurueu 14:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16083 -- [no squash] Revamp `dump` by appgurueu 14:33 MTDiscord done 15:19 sfan5 when is the meeting again 15:19 sfan5 or did we miss it 15:21 MTDiscord1 idk i'm just waiting for it to happen 15:22 sfan5 well I have to hang up my laundry now 15:27 MTDiscord Excellent. 15:39 sfan5 ok done 15:40 Krock > Time 18:00 UTC 15:41 Krock that's in 2 hours and 20 minutes 16:57 Desour >is there a reason we don't allow waving for mesh nodes? 16:57 Desour I wish waving was always just allowed drawtype specific 16:57 Desour liquid-waving nodeboxes are horrible 16:58 Desour for example 17:02 Krock wobbling liquids would actually be funny to have to build a jelly factory 17:04 MTDiscord And a physics simulation nightmare. 17:05 MTDiscord Unless it's something simple like the "mad milk" in tf2. 17:05 Desour that wouldn't be our liquid waving then though 17:47 Desour is there a reason why flowingliquid uses special_tiles? 17:50 Krock Wasn't there a setting to disable liquid animations? I think Minetest (0.4.7 or whichever version) would then just use the static images 17:50 Krock but don't quote me on that. It's mostly just interpretation 17:51 Krock Meeting in 9 minutes 17:51 Desour but source liquid uses usual tiles, so that doesn't explain it 17:59 Krock Pinging those who reacted to the meeting post: Zughy sfan5 y5ne @y5ne (me) 18:00 SFENCE I am here, but in the train on the way. 18:00 Krock thankfully we don't need to be at the same location to participate in this meeting :3 18:01 sfan5 I am sill composing a github comment 18:01 sfan5 still* 18:01 SFENCE Yes, but connection in train can be unstable sometimes. :D 18:02 Krock Let's wait a few minutes. Today's goal is to enter feature freeze --> https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/milestone/26 18:02 MTDiscord I am here too 18:02 Krock on a side note, we might as well discuss https://github.com/luanti-org/docs.luanti.org/pull/228 (release schedule) after processing the milestone 18:05 Krock Starting with the PRs first. 18:05 Krock > #16053 18:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16053 -- Change default inventory key to E, default Aux1 key to F by minlemon 18:06 Krock I already left a comment there. Is it urgent to address? 18:06 sfan5 quoting myself: 18:06 sfan5 That is true, but this isn't my reason for proposing to do this change in 5.12. 18:06 sfan5 The reasoning is that for many people this release will cause at least one noticeable key change, so it would be a good idea to merge it with another change (change fatigue). 18:07 Krock oh that's the comment you were referring to 18:08 sfan5 IMO if we decide not to do it now then it's also no problem to delay it a few more releases 18:08 sfan5 (though I still think the engine default bindings should switch away from I) 18:09 sfan5 so what we need to discuss is: should any change to the default bindings be done now, or not? 18:10 [MatrxMT] IMO it would be nice to have it now, but if we want to start a poll or don't have a consensus yet then we can also delay it 18:11 Krock I do see that it's a great opportunity for changes. Question is whether that's generally accepted. I actually wouldn't mind too much. 18:13 Krock counter-proposal: merge it now for an rc1 build and collect user feedback this way 18:13 sfan5 ideally we would also have the dialog ready for rc1 then 18:14 sfan5 though windows users having run_in_place builds mostly breaking any migration ideas (we should fix that some day) 18:14 sfan5 mostly breaks* 18:14 SFENCE Potencially... are we able to add/show some windows on first lunati start and show controls to user? So, it should fix confusion problem for users and existing tutorials. 18:14 Krock I'm sure they'll carry over the minetest.conf file once they customized Luanti enough 18:15 Krock SFENCE: that's exactly what sfan5 just mentioned. PR #16049 18:15 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16049 -- Migrate existing keycode-based keybindings; add warning dialog about migration by y5nw 18:16 Krock I'll review that soon so that we can provide an rc1 soon after 18:16 SFENCE Krock: Nice. 18:16 sfan5 can we ping the entire engine team on the PR to get feedback? 18:17 Krock sounds good. by counting reactions. 18:19 Krock '@luanti-org/engine' should do the trick. Would you like to do that, sfan5 ? 18:19 sfan5 sure 18:19 Krock Thank you :) 18:20 Krock > continuing. #16017 18:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16017 -- Complete rename to Luanti in package metadata by appgurueu 18:20 Krock skipping. to be merged before the 5.12.0 release 18:21 Krock > #15898 18:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/15898 -- Node specular needs to be disabled *or* server-configurable and off by default 18:21 sfan5 disabling it is a relatively easy fix 18:21 sfan5 s/relatively // 18:21 Krock no blocker, thus strictly speaking not necessary to fix 8) 18:22 Desour I see a blocker label 18:22 Krock I'm blind. I can propose a PR for that. Removing 'enable_node_specular' for now, default to false. 18:23 Krock s/I can/I will/ 18:23 Krock > #15883 18:23 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/15883 -- Font texture turns black after app is in background (Android) 18:23 Krock > It would be helpful if someone could reproduce this on a debug build ~ sfan5 18:23 Krock are there any debug builds available? 18:24 Krock or "bake it yourself"? 18:24 sfan5 the CI artifact is a debug one IIRC 18:25 Krock the APK is 15 MB small, thus I don't think so. 18:25 [MatrxMT] RE Inventory key (sorry but meetings are at dinner time): of course E will prevail, 99% of games we currently have are Minecraft-related and/or with an inventory. That makes me the minority but again, I don't see why I should be punished for not sticking to a Minecraft/inventory-featuring game 18:26 sfan5 I believe the debug symbols are gone but it will be a build with debug code paths active 18:26 Krock Zughy: on the other hand - you can still it back easily. it's not like we're hardcoding those :) 18:27 Krock sfan5: hmm interesting. In that case I'll try to reproduce it again. It's rather difficult. It seems to only happen once after a reboot so far. Who knows what's going wrong there.... 18:27 [MatrxMT] People playing both my server and other games will clearly stick to inventory = E, so they'll have to get used to F 18:27 Krock > skipping 15030 (unconfirmed) 18:27 [MatrxMT] I don't see how people will switch every time 18:28 Krock > skipping 15027 (the physics calculations are more accurate now, and this isn't a regression) 18:28 Krock Zughy: the switch only happens once, when you derive from the defaults. after that it's preserved in minetest.conf, which you need to re-use anyway to keep the graphical settings 18:30 Krock > skipping 16049 (unconfirmed issue) 18:30 [MatrxMT] What I mean is, if people play games with inventories, they'll use E for the inventory. As a consequence, they'll use F on my server, because they don't want to switch every time AUX1 between E and F 18:31 Krock Zughy: these settings are client-side. I currently do not understand what kind of role the server plays here. The "open inventory key" will always be on the key that the player configured (or the default one) 18:31 MTDiscord we will need per-server / per-game keybinds. 18:31 MTDiscord (not now, but when we do proper custom controls) 18:32 Krock > #14135 18:32 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/14135 -- Add persistent unique identifiers for objects by sfence 18:33 Krock Two weeks ago we tried to get this done before feature freeze. Shall we still wait? 18:33 Desour s/16049/15010/ ? 18:33 [MatrxMT] My server doesn't use inventories, but it also uses AUX a lot. Which is currently on E because it's faster than F, and if we move it on F that will worsen the experience. Please read what I wrote in the PR, I feel like I'm repeating myself over and over 18:34 Krock Desour: yes. thank you. 18:34 sfan5 didn't we way that we don't want to delay releases for feature PRs anymore? 18:34 SFENCE I will be able to look at this one mayby tomorrow. If we want to start feature freeze today, should be postponed. 18:34 sfan5 we say* 18:34 MTDiscord i'm fine with postponing. better not to rush. 18:35 Krock moving to 5.13.0 18:35 Krock The remaining issues are regressions and unlikely to be fixed soon. 18:36 Krock (#13961 and #14545) 18:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/13961 -- Strange behavior when dragging&dropping from MTG creative inventory (since #13146) 18:36 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/14545 -- SDL: Some keybinds broken due to missing character lookup 18:37 Krock okay that's it for the milestone. Any questions, remarks for those points? 18:38 SFENCE 14545 problem was discussed before new keybingind PR was merged. And we merge it with knowing, that this problem will appear. So, shoudl nod be blocker. 18:40 MTDiscord #14545 18:40 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/14545 -- SDL: Some keybinds broken due to missing character lookup 18:46 [MatrxMT] So FF time? 18:46 sfan5 this only applies to /, doesn't it? 18:46 Krock sfan5: to any printable characters produced with Shift or Alt 18:47 SFENCE I think so. I do not know about other key than /. 18:47 Krock in practice, / is generally affected on non-US layouts, yes. 18:48 sfan5 or rather 18:48 sfan5 does this issue even make sense anymore? we do not bind keys to "characters" anymore 18:49 Krock good point. Perhaps the request would then correctly be 'allow binding to characters' as a feature, but that's impossible to implement with SDL2 18:49 [MatrxMT] IMO it depends on whether we still want to have keybindings with modifier keys. It is doable (even without SDL3) but I would not prioritize it at the moment 18:49 [MatrxMT] Although showing the correct character (e.g. / instead of Shift-7) would involve SDL3 18:50 Krock I see. 18:50 SFENCE Multiple-key binging for one actions is the best solution for this problem, I believe. So should be better that binging to printable characters. 18:51 sfan5 in fact on my german keyboard I can press - to get "open chat console and type a /" 18:51 sfan5 it's just scancodes working as intended 18:51 sfan5 (had to check here to know which key to press https://www.farah.cl/Keyboardery/A-Visual-Comparison-of-Different-National-Layouts/#enUS) 18:51 Krock what does it show in the settings? 18:52 Krock `-` ? 18:52 SFENCE From my side: lets go with SDL, add multiple keybingins in some future release... 18:52 sfan5 Krock: yep 18:52 Krock sfan5: so that's technically correct. Nice. 18:53 Desour imo, if we get the feature to bind key combinations to actions, it's pretty much fixed 18:54 Desour the '/' bind is a shorthand for t, then /. people produce / in weird ways may not get the thing back, but idk if such ppl exist 18:54 Krock heh sfan5 was faster to submit the answer :3 19:03 sfan5 so does that mean feature freeze or not? 19:08 Krock Yes. Would you please be so nice to update /topic ? 19:09 Krock I don't think I have the permissions to do that 19:09 Krock > -ChanServ- You are not authorized to perform this operation. 19:10 sfan5 -ChanServ- +t - Enables use of the topic and topicappend commands. 19:10 sfan5 i guess you can't give yourself op however 19:11 Krock makes sense 19:15 Krock Okay. Are there any other topics to discuss? 19:22 Krock Thank you for participating.