Time Nick Message 13:00 [MatrxMT] Reminder: meeting today in a few hours 15:09 MTDiscord Time to merge https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/12142 ! 17:09 sfan5 when meeting? 17:10 luatic idk i'm just waiting for something to happen in this channel 17:11 * cheapie does an unspecified something 17:25 rubenwardy Could do with a ping bot 17:33 Krock Is there a meeting? 17:58 sfan5 idk 17:58 Desour 18 UTC is in 2 min 18:01 [MatrxMT] reminder 18:01 [MatrxMT] it is 1 minute past the meeting's start 18:01 luatic so it begins 18:02 Krock >> Meeting points https://docs.luanti.org/for-engine-devs/meetings/#2025-09-21 18:02 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/2025 -- Fix documentation for string operations. by kaeza 18:02 Krock > FF (Zughy) 18:02 Krock Firefox 18:02 [MatrxMT] hi 18:04 Krock We have one feature in https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/milestone/30 which has to be moved to the next milestone 18:04 Krock but aside from that it seems to be just fine 18:04 sfan5 the ABMs you mean? 18:05 Krock indeed 18:05 sfan5 do we want #16267 in the release? 18:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16267 -- Allow scaling nametag by distance and to set font size by sfan5 18:05 luatic i have fixed up #16458 just now 18:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16458 -- Network: Batch individual particle packets by appgurueu 18:05 sfan5 admittedly we let the ABM PR lie around too long but I think we shouldn't try to shove it into this release 18:07 Krock I would like to have some user feedback on #16267 - mostly in terms of how it behaves, rather than the concept in general. Please test. *looks as Zughy * 18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16267 -- Allow scaling nametag by distance and to set font size by sfan5 18:08 [MatrxMT] Krock: I can test it in a couple of hours more of less 18:08 Krock alright. thanks. 18:09 Krock so let's enter feature freeze after you had a look at it - either we merge it as-is, or it won't make it into 5.14.0. 18:10 Krock luatic: I'll re-review your PR after this meeting. 18:10 sfan5 i'll add it to the milestone so we don't forget to think about it 18:10 Krock +1 18:11 luatic heads up: i will have little time to contribute to luanti until about the end of october due to my bachelor's thesis 18:11 Krock then I wish you good luck with that one :) 18:11 luatic thank you 18:12 Krock another milestone point: #16362. Is that trivial to change? I have almost no knowledge about the Android build system. 18:12 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16362 -- Android: Update to SDK 35 by August 31 18:12 Krock asking just in case so that we do not run into time pressure there 18:20 [MatrxMT] Krock, sfan5: yep, the scaling is a bit too much (I was able to test it right away). I'll try with the suggestion from sfan. Also, I don't see the point of having the `nametag_fontsize` parameter 18:21 sfan5 my suggestion does not change the scaling formula 18:21 sfan5 just the default font size 18:21 sfan5 the reason the parameter exists is so the mod author can *drum roll* choose a fitting value 18:22 sfan5 Krock: trivial to do, mostly 18:22 Krock great :^) 18:22 [MatrxMT] also the fact that the scaling is not smooth is not great for the eye 18:23 sfan5 known issue 18:23 [MatrxMT] is it possible to have a smooth scaling? 18:23 [MatrxMT] I personally wouldn't ship it like this (time to eat, talk to you soon if you need me) 18:26 sfan5 it is possible 18:27 sfan5 just needs more work 18:27 sfan5 by "not ship it" do you mean you wouldn't use it or you think we shouldn't merge it? if the latter I'm a bit surprised 18:29 sfan5 where are the discussion notes again 18:30 Krock these? https://docs.luanti.org/for-engine-devs/meetings/ 18:31 Krock https://github.com/luanti-org/docs.luanti.org/blob/master/content/for-engine-devs/meetings.md 18:32 sfan5 ah right 18:32 sfan5 i thought we were collecting the topics in github discussions too 18:33 sfan5 I suppose we should get #16458 into the release too since we need to bump the protocol version anyway 18:33 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16458 -- Network: Batch individual particle packets by appgurueu 18:35 sfan5 #16293 is out for this release then? 18:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16293 -- Monoblocks: optimize blocks that contain a single type of node by lhofhansl 18:35 sfan5 also how about #14289? this is trivial and was ignored for no reason 18:35 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/14289 -- Add client-side logging of chat messages by Sokomine 18:36 Krock it's not a feature, thus I did not mention it so far. (the monoblocks one) 18:37 user2_ client-side chat logging is trivially easy with a csm 18:37 Krock user2_: servers disallow that sometimes 18:38 Desour monoblocks is not mergable during ff. but lhohansl could in theory merge it now before ff 18:39 user2_ yeah, and if a server disallows chat logging, how will hardcoding a chatlogger be better? 18:39 sfan5 client-side chat logging is also possible by taking a screenshot 18:39 user2_ true XD 18:39 sfan5 or saving traffic using wireshark/tcpdump 18:39 sfan5 IRC clients routinely do this by default 18:39 sfan5 etc 18:39 sfan5 these arguments were had already 18:40 user2_ i just don't see a point in doing it if you can do it easily with a CSM 18:40 Krock you can also put a paper on top of the screen and copy the text like that if you'd like to have an overcomplicated alternative 18:40 Krock (not recommended, may cause fractures) 18:41 sfan5 user2_: being useful out-of-the-box 18:41 Desour you could also use a webcam and a mirror 18:41 Krock Desour: https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/032/558/temp6.jpg 18:41 user2_ sfan5: good point, i doubt the average user doesn't know how to make a chat logging CSM 18:41 Desour Krock: need more resolution to use eyes as mirror 18:42 sfan5 s/doesn't know/does know/ you mean? 18:45 user2_ my chat logger is literally 3 lines of lua and 26 lines of python, i personally think it's easy to make one 18:45 sfan5 see https://xkcd.com/2501/ 18:46 user2_ true- i have problems with learning lua :P 18:49 user2_ you could hardcode a chat logger CSM in builtin, though a C++ implementation would probably be better 18:51 MTDiscord Could, but the PR already exists, so lets not bikeshed and move on. 18:53 [MatrxMT] You can take a look at the diff and see that is basically puts the chat message into debug.txt 18:54 user2_ the only issue i had with the lua chat logger was that it kept logging escapes as well, which ruined the look of the text and made it a pain to read 18:54 user2_ but then core.strip_escapes() was added 18:54 user2_ so... does this PR log escapes as well? because they can be a pain to display if it's not in ingame chat 18:55 [MatrxMT] Apparently the escapes are stripped 18:55 user2_ allright, that's great, i couldn't find a way to display them without messed-up text 18:56 [MatrxMT] Anyway merging #16504 in 15m 18:56 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16504 -- Add missing IsWritable checks by y5nw 18:56 Desour games logging chat messages to the terminal and log is a normal thing. I expected that PR to just be merged. but this is luanti. I'm pretty sure the PR doesn't need the discussion it gets, but even now it doesn't stop 18:57 Desour @y5nw: I suggest mentioning CGUIEditBox in commit title 18:57 MTDiscord Like I said, merge it and move on. Not worth giving it the light of day. 18:58 luatic by all means, feel free to go ahead with that PR. 18:58 user2_ another issue is seperating the actual chat logs and unrelated things in debug.txt 18:58 [MatrxMT] grep 18:58 sfan5 we just need someone to approve it 18:58 MTDiscord It already has two approvals 18:58 user2_ the average user doesn't know how to use grep 18:58 luatic user2_: i was hoping to be able to offer a more flexible solution at the time but i have other priorities, and haven't found the time 18:59 luatic so i'd say let's not let perfect be the enemy of the good any longer 18:59 MTDiscord Technically 3 approvals with luatic informally approving over IRC :p 18:59 user2_ i would simply log it to another file- but that pr lgtm for now 18:59 sfan5 we should clearly wait until we have an ai-enabled cloud-synced multi-device end-to-end-encrypted logging storage (+ Android app) 19:00 luatic where's the VR in that 19:00 sfan5 VR industry is dying 19:00 luatic .. cryptocurrencies, maybe? 19:00 MTDiscord https://xkcd.com/2326/ 19:00 user2_ and wheres the raytracing and colored lighting in luanti- 19:00 sfan5 it should be federated tho 19:00 [MatrxMT] sfan5: ... and then realize that someone has the chat exposed with telnet? 19:00 sfan5 because FOSS 19:01 MTDiscord user2, for the latter go backin time to before 5.3 and beat on greenxenith :p 19:01 luatic colored lighting before 5.8 or bust :p 19:01 MTDiscord Bust 19:01 luatic valid 19:01 MTDiscord Someone fixed the light bank system since then though, so its probably not as awful as it was back then 19:02 MTDiscord iirc the mapblock lighting bugs still exist 19:02 user2_ the colored lighting issue has been open since.... 2018, right?... 19:04 MTDiscord looking at the oldest issue, heh - not a big one like i expected 19:04 MTDiscord but also 2014 isnt suprising 19:05 MTDiscord So, merging the chat log? 19:06 MTDiscord And other meeting points, if any? 19:07 sfan5 no more meeting points, it appears 19:08 sfan5 remember that someone will need to do the weblate imports/updates 19:08 [MatrxMT] sfan5 RE nametags: we can merge it but I'd expect to see an update to the scaling formula in the next release 19:08 [MatrxMT] It becomes small too fast imho 19:08 sfan5 non-smooth scaling is not the fault of the formula in case you mean that 19:09 [MatrxMT] Nope, I mean the overall size 19:09 sfan5 the forumula is 1/d, not sure what other engines do 19:09 user2_ let the scaling be configured by mods (if it isnt already) 19:09 [MatrxMT] Also, merging it is probably the best way to get more feedback 19:09 [MatrxMT] user2_: no please 19:09 luatic user2_: pretty awkward in this particular case? 19:10 Desour I think someone wanted to discuss something about the roadmap: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16468#discussion_r2366281621 19:10 user2_ tbh everything should be mod-configurable- it's a game ENGINE, not a GAME 19:10 [MatrxMT] sfan5: it might also be just me not used to the scaling 19:11 mrcheese user2_: just learn C++ and irrlicht, then everything is configurable! 19:12 user2_ i got stuck on step 1 19:12 luatic user2_: that is true but unfortunately given the absence of SSCSM not something we can 100% do just yet 19:13 user2_ iirc there is a PR for a SSCSM implementation 19:13 MTDiscord SSCSM is the minetest equivalent of Half Life 3. 19:13 user2_ yeah- valve will never release that XD 19:14 user2_ tho iirc there were some rumors hl3 was coming soon- 19:14 lhofhansl Planning to merge #16293 in a bit. I'll wait a bit longer than usual, as this is a big'ish change. 19:14 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16293 -- Monoblocks: optimize blocks that contain a single type of node by lhofhansl 19:15 user2_ that one is interesting- though will it break the map format? 19:16 lhofhansl Map format is unchanged 19:16 lhofhansl In only affect the in-memory representation 19:16 lhofhansl affects 19:16 user2_ so it's just rendering-wise and memory usage optimizations 19:17 sfan5 rendering is unrelated 19:17 sfan5 too 19:17 sfan5 merging #14289 in 10m 19:17 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/14289 -- Add client-side logging of chat messages by Sokomine 19:17 lhofhansl On the server only. It's mostly good for server with many users or large rendering distances (which requires lots of block loaded and kept at the server) 19:18 user2_ huh, i assumed it was for optimizing client rendering smh- 19:18 Desour user2_: it's #15818, btw. (in case anyone is searching for the ready for review sscsm PR that is waiting there) (oh no, needs rebase again) 19:18 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/15818 -- Create the SSCSM scripting by Desour 19:19 user2_ that at least shows you want it somewhat 19:19 user2_ :P 19:25 [MatrxMT] Let's merge nametags? 19:25 sfan5 waiting for Krock's approval :) 19:30 Krock currently fixing up my IDE :/ 19:35 sfan5 no need for hurry 19:36 sfan5 the mention of https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/security/advisories/GHSA-hwj2-xf72-r4cf in #luanti made me think: should we still be permitting people to announce known vulnerable versions to the server list? 19:38 user2_ iirc those vulnerable versions only affect the server (at least for the one mentioned) so a warning is probably enough 19:38 sfan5 I guess that technically applies to 0.4.* too 19:39 MTDiscord honestly, at what point does the server drop 0.4? 19:39 MTDiscord *severlist 19:39 user2_ when there are no more 0.4x servers 19:40 MTDiscord lol 19:40 mrcheese lol 19:40 MTDiscord half of the 0.4 servers are accessible vix 5.x 19:41 user2_ the last 0.4x release was in 2022 iirc, it was only 3 yrs ago 19:41 MTDiscord uh, no 19:42 user2_ lemme check- 19:42 [MatrxMT] Quite sure it was more like 2019 19:42 sfan5 2018 19:42 MTDiscord 2018 19:42 mrcheese yeah 2022 felt too soon for 0.4x 19:42 MTDiscord 2017 if you ignore the backporting 19:43 user2_ oh wow it's even older- 19:43 user2_ i was thinkin of another release 19:43 MTDiscord coughs in sfan5 direction if he ever had a chance to update the serverlist stats 19:43 sfan5 user2_: the whole idea is that we shouldn't be complicit in server's behind exploited because we know better than the server admins who might have installed this version from the repos and/or not know of the vulnerability 19:44 sfan5 s/server's/servers/ 19:44 user2_ i would raise a warning rather than completely ban them 19:45 sfan5 bad news: luanti only prints the response from the server list since 5.5.0 19:46 sfan5 so the only information we can give older servers is the http status code 19:46 MTDiscord i suspect a lot of 4x traffic is mostly just the few ancient minetest forks that kick around on the app stores 19:47 user2_ yeah, all those paid-for ad-riddled things that profit off luanti's 15 years of unpaid development :( 19:47 MTDiscord which, tbh they can host there own serverlist if they want to keep supporting 4x, something headed towards a decade ago when it last had features being added 19:48 MTDiscord take for example debian only has 5 years of support 19:48 user2_ maybe 0.4x servers get redirected to a seperate list? 19:48 MTDiscord 🤦 19:49 [MatrxMT] Wouldn't such a separate list counter the goal of not having a list of potentially vulnerable servers? 19:49 MTDiscord im just talking about dropping 4x regardless 19:50 user2_ this is slightly offtopic from the original conversation 19:50 MTDiscord cdb doesnt even support 4x (granted it wasnt a thing in 4x) 19:50 MTDiscord but it did have 4x only packages for a while 19:50 user2_ we should warn/prevent clients with security issues from using the serverlist 19:50 user2_ *servers 19:51 sfan5 well there are no client-side security issues (we know of) that would warrant this 19:52 sfan5 as far as we're concerned minetest 5.0.0 is a perfectly safe - albeit terrible - version to use with any new server you want 19:52 user2_ yeah- i tried playing CTF on 5.0.0- very broken- 19:53 user2_ especially formspecs and players 19:53 MTDiscord you will find in reality most mods support about 2 versions of luanti generally if your using latest 19:53 MTDiscord after that it starts to fall apart 19:53 user2_ mesecons supported 5.0.0 until recently iirc 19:53 MTDiscord given the alpha changes in 5.4, anything older generally no one cares about 19:53 user2_ worldedit supports any 5.x client 19:54 sfan5 server* to be clear 19:54 MTDiscord mods can say they support older versions, doesnt mean they completely do or wont have weird behavior 19:54 sfan5 i have no idea about worldedit_gui 19:54 MTDiscord does world edit gui use real cords? if so its 5.1 plus 20:12 rubenwardy should we still be permitting people to announce known vulnerable versions to the server list? 20:12 rubenwardy well theoretically they could be using a patched version 20:12 rubenwardy in practice likely not 20:15 sfan5 a practical but annoying (for server owners) solution would be to require anyone still running 0.4 to patch their version string to show that they are probably in a reasonable position to have actually applied the patch 20:19 lhofhansl Done with 16293. Yeah! 20:19 Desour #16293 20:20 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16293 -- Monoblocks: optimize blocks that contain a single type of node by lhofhansl 20:20 Desour \o/ 20:20 lhofhansl Desour: Thanks for your review. 20:21 Desour lhofhansl: Thanks for your PR. 20:30 sfan5 i get a bunch of new warnings https://0x0.st/KAZU.txt 20:30 sfan5 (repeats for every time server.h is included) 20:32 Desour would be nice if we had CI warnings on warnings 20:33 Krock Secured connection failed. PR_END_OF_FILE_ERROR 20:38 sfan5 `bool isClient() override { return false; }` in server.h is to blame, probably 20:38 sfan5 Desour: we could make certain warnings -Werror on CI only 20:40 user2_ now i have both my CSM and the engine logging chat messages... ima add a setting to disable the engine logging them in my personal client 20:40 [MatrxMT] sfan5: thinking about the nametag PR, initially I thought the setting to change the size of the font could have been useful to show big titles through invisible entities. However, this should already be doable with waypoints, so I can't think of an usecase for that option 20:41 sfan5 to be clear you are saying you don't think the game developer should be in control of the font size? 20:41 mrcheese ._. 20:45 [MatrxMT] I'm saying I can't think of an usecase 20:47 Desour sfan5: weird, I don't get the warning. (I do build with unittests) 20:52 sfan5 clang? i don't think gcc has it 20:52 Desour oh well, seems I forgot gcc doesnt have that option 20:52 sfan5 @Zughy well ok 21:05 Desour sfan5: if you don't have something nicer, I will push https://github.com/Desour/minetest/commit/2eb9a35ea17370e540ee85b13cf831b09f5db408 when CI finishes w/o the warnings 21:06 sfan5 fine by me 21:06 Desour interestingly, there were functions marked as virtual that do not override, and where I was able to just remove the virtual 21:06 sfan5 you could alternatively remove the override on isClient() 21:07 Desour (getEmergeManager, SendChatMessage) 21:07 sfan5 (but this is the right fix) 21:12 Desour added the virtual back to SendChatMessage, it's overridden in a unittest, oops: https://github.com/Desour/minetest/commit/978e5879e3ff49a6d62ac192a9bb6fbd4164b6cf 21:12 Desour getEmergeManager isn't 22:41 Desour pushed 22:42 Desour the windows vs ci is so slow, taking an hour to download and install stuff apparently 22:45 MTDiscord wonder if the stuff needed to install can be cached 22:45 Desour (pushed) 23:07 [MatrxMT] what do we want to do with our schedule? RC in 2 weeks and release in 2 more? 23:08 Desour rc should be done when starting ff, no? 23:08 Desour for people to test during ff 23:10 [MatrxMT] Might be too late to release one now (1AM here) 23:11 [MatrxMT] if some core devs want to compile a RC in these days and aim for an official release in two weeks, it'd be great 23:14 [MatrxMT] I'm writing down "Release 5.14" for the next meeting, I guess we'll see for the RC (points can be changed anyway) 23:22 [MatrxMT] the issue is that we have to think in spans of two weeks each (due to meetings). So if we want to dilute development, it'd take us 4 weeks between FF, RC and official release. That means delivering a candidate possibly without known bugs and potentially sleeping tight for the incoming two weeks 23:23 [MatrxMT] On the contrary, if we go with FF + RC in a single round, it allows us to skip a 2 week cycle, but I feel like it'd pressure us at the same time; because devs might face unknown issues whilst fixing known ones, in a time that is literally halved compared to the first suggestion 23:25 [MatrxMT] Personally I'm a fan of the former, considering nobody is paid and we struggle with time already 23:37 rubenwardy there's no reason the RC has to be on a meeting day 23:37 rubenwardy RC should be made when FF starts