Time Nick Message 09:04 Krock 17389 causes me to cancel mod configuration way too often. Muscle memory dies hard. 09:13 Farooq I'm not sure where to bring this up. But I think we need a CoC. I've seen some behaviors which don't encourage a community to build and develop together. Where should I open an issue? 09:15 MTDiscord farooq: ... "CoC" ? 09:15 Krock Code of Conduct. I thought we already have something like that. 09:15 Farooq Code of Conduct. Some enforced guildelines about how people deal with each other 09:15 Farooq Krock, we do? 09:18 Krock hmm only found this so far https://docs.luanti.org/about/irc/#rules 09:20 Farooq That's not a CoC. Also when we have a CoC, we also need a team to enforce it 09:21 Farooq Is the discussion on topic for this room? 09:21 Krock who is that team? 09:21 Krock and what use does it have to enforce rules on volunteers? 09:28 Farooq A team must be chosen 09:28 Farooq you don't know what is purpose of a CoC? 09:29 Farooq or I don't get your question 09:32 Krock I know what it means. I just see no use in it when you could as well apply Wheaton's Law 12:42 rubenwardy yeah I support getting a CoC, it's in our org plans 12:44 Farooq Krock, Wheaton's Law? There are 9999 ways to interpret it. Including literally. I'm gonna curse you the worst curse, then argue it doesn't count. Or that I take the law literally. 12:44 Farooq Unless you want to to include explainations, on examples and so on. In that case you are writing a CoC 12:45 Krock https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/10386 12:45 rubenwardy that is 6 years old 12:46 Krock has anything changed since then? Luanti is much older and has IMO worked well 99% at the time (1% being the flamewars here, years ago) 12:47 Farooq Do you really want me to dig out the cases in which CoC could have helped? 12:47 rubenwardy Well I think a CoC would have been useful 6 years ago 12:48 Farooq rubenwardy, same here 12:48 Farooq Krock, if you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean it is not there. You are a dev whom everyone respect. So naturally, you have a low chance of being shot at 12:49 rubenwardy I would like to see a base code of conduct (can call it "rules" if it makes you feel better) that applies to the entire Luanti community, which can then be extended/overridden/enforced by each platform 12:49 Farooq Also IMO, CoC is not just about not shooting people but also welcoming them and forming a warm community 12:49 rubenwardy there's been some work on a draft based ont he discord/matrix rules 12:50 Farooq rubenwardy, I haven't got much of a say in this. But I would simply steal some other project's CoC :P 12:50 Farooq Maybe with a lil change 12:52 rubenwardy Maybe. I think the most important part is the application and the ethos rather than just copying an existing CoC 12:55 Farooq Do I open an issue or you will? 12:56 rubenwardy I think it's something for our internal discussion board first rather than the engine tracker 12:57 Farooq okie dokie 12:58 Farooq looking forward to it then 13:26 [MatrxMT] couldn't you just modify the forum rules or something? 13:33 rubenwardy I don't think the forum rules make a good base 20:00 MTDiscord My two cents is, we have a code of conduct in VL and I don't think it has ever helped in any way. 20:03 MTDiscord Technically, there are two specific things in a code of conduct: code of conduct is something any contributor agrees to and pledges by committing to a repository that contains it, and also code of conduct technically describes who is responsible for enforcing it. 20:04 MTDiscord In practice, hardly anybody reads it, because it is usually a generic "be respectful" pledge (mentioning various groups of people you should be respectful to), and rules are always enforced by those in power. 20:07 MTDiscord If someone claims code of conduct is important and we need it, I'd say such a person (eg. Farooq) should provide examples of situations that have happened eg. this year and would have been somehow better if there was a code of conduct. Such a document would have to respond to specific needs. Making it in abstraction is the best way to make a code that changes nothing. 20:08 sfan5 a CoC is only useful if you have someone to enforce it in a standardized and fair way 20:09 MTDiscord That too 20:10 rubenwardy I ddi say this - the contents of the CoC matter less than how it is enforced 20:11 MTDiscord Also, for example we have the following clause in our rules for VL discord and matrix: > If you see something against the rules or something that makes you feel unsafe, let staff know by sending a direct message to a staff member that is currently online. We want this server to be a welcoming space! Guess how many people we had asking for help since I took over 3 years ago (don't know about before)? Zero 20:13 MTDiscord Sure, there were spammers and similar, which were handled more by common sense than by rules after a staff member saw it (after getting pinged in some cases) 20:13 rubenwardy We already have rules. This change is about filling in the cracks (ie: GitHub has no rules) and establishing better practices for handling this stuff 20:13 rubenwardy A code of conduct is just rules for community behaviour 20:13 MTDiscord Yeah, and we have a code of conduct on the repo and we never had to invoke it 20:14 MTDiscord I mean, I'm not even against, but I'd like to understand why to people want it exactly