Time  Nick      Message
17:28 MTDiscord <paradust> sfan5: This is my current assessment: https://luanti.dustlabs.io/compare.txt
17:33 sfan5     browser compatibility is a no for both, right?
17:33 sfan5     also worth comparing implementations
17:35 MTDiscord <paradust> What do you mean by browser compatibility?
17:36 sfan5     browsers already implement quic, but there's no chance that JS will get access to in a way that would allow talking to luanti, right? (webtransport??)
17:36 sfan5     to it*
17:37 sfan5     oh and finally: there needs to be some reasonable way to implement "is this server on?" checks for the server list
17:38 sfan5     but if there isn't this can also be tacked on as a separate "ping protocol" like how other game servers do it
17:39 MTDiscord <paradust> WebTransport is implemented on top of QUIC, but it also requires that the server speaks HTTP/3 + WebTransport. So a connection wouldn't just work, but support for it could be added to Luanti as a feature.
17:49 MTDiscord <paradust> I need to do some more research regarding the pings. My first thought is that, as long as the number of servers pinged as kept reasonable (under 10), its not a big deal to open and maintain 10 QUIC connections.
17:50 MTDiscord <paradust> But if the clients ping all servers constantly, that might be an issue.
17:50 MTDiscord <paradust> We could always have a custom protocol if that turns out to be the case.
17:58 sfan5     I'm not so concerned about resources usage of connections. it's more about being able to implement this in python without 10 extra libs and 500 LOC
18:02 sfan5     looking at tcpdump the server list seems to ping 1-5 servers per second, roughly
18:02 sfan5     this is currently a trivial 3 packet exchange
18:07 sfan5     but yes a custom protocol would also have other advantages. like allowing the client to retrieve player count and perhaps a name/description from an arbitrary server (not relying on the server list)
18:32 MTDiscord <paradust> There are quic libraries for python3, so either way it would be 1 library and a few lines.
18:38 MTDiscord <paradust> QUIC would work for an arbitrary server as well (using a self-signed certificate if they don't have a domain)
18:49 MTDiscord <paradust> I don't see anything on the server list that actually connects to or pings servers.
18:49 MTDiscord <paradust> I think it just uses an estimate table based on IP geolocation
18:50 MTDiscord <paradust> In game at least. Not sure about the servers.luanti.org
18:51 MTDiscord <paradust> If only servers.luanti.org does pings, then its no problem at all. It can maintain open QUIC connections to all the servers.
19:23 sfan5     uh that doesn't sound scalable at all
19:24 sfan5     it only needs to check the ping once in 5 minutes
19:49 MTDiscord <paradust> That's fine. I was just thinking for continuous pinging (every few seconds), it would be better to keep the connections open.
19:50 MTDiscord <paradust> Not scalable, but with <1000 servers I don't think it would be a problem.
19:52 [MatrxMT] <birdlover32767> or you could optimize based on player count
19:52 [MatrxMT] <birdlover32767> check the servers with nobody every 10 to 30 minutes, check the servers with lots of people every 1 to 2 minutes