Time Nick Message 00:04 ireallyhateirc luatic told me that irrlicht has a limit of 64K triangles for a model, any plans to change that? 00:05 cheapie ireallyhateirc: ...are you turning into VanessaE? 00:05 ireallyhateirc I'm trying not to but mu character turned from low-poly into mid-poly 00:06 ireallyhateirc doing good-looking low-poly is hard 00:06 ireallyhateirc currently I'm at 25K 00:15 ireallyhateirc would be funny if the character I'm working on since september turns out to clash with Luanti's low-poly world 00:27 ireallyhateirc My question is rather: is the 64K triangle limit a thing because irrlicht is ancient or because 64K is something that'd actually slow down Luanti 01:06 cheapie Something came up elsewhere that reminded me of some silly mesecons stuff I did a while back: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20231010_131238.png 01:07 cheapie 1/sqrt(X) approximator for 32-bit floats, input is on the row of switches near the camera with the LSB on the left, output is on the red lightstone on the right with the LSB on the far side, the other switches inside it are set to a constant value which is of course 0x5f3759df 02:26 MTDiscord with dig particles being removed as a setting (cool whatever), is there an option in the lua api to disable them? not seeing this 02:26 MTDiscord but i might be blind and missing that 03:43 [MatrxMT] ireallyhateirc: are you in need of a bump map or something? 64k is crazy 06:21 SFENCE_arch Hmm... can somebody provide me more information why content db says; Game support conflict, unable to install package on any games, for https://content.luanti.org/threads/7864/ ? I am able to normaly load it into Luanti on my computer. 06:22 [MatrxMT] that link is 404, maybe it's a package that isn't published? 06:23 SFENCE_arch https://content.luanti.org/packages/SFENCE/hades_extensionmods/ is published. 06:24 MTDiscord But maybe thread is visible only for pelople with some privilegies. 06:24 [MatrxMT] then it's not a thread that's visible to the public, only maintainers and approvers 06:27 [MatrxMT] https://github.com/luanti-org/contentdb/blob/master/app/logic/game_support.py#L170 06:28 [MatrxMT] it seems from the source code that you should be able to get more detailed error info than the one line you gave? 06:29 SFENCE_arch This is all I get: 06:29 SFENCE_arch Task Failed 06:29 SFENCE_arch Error validating game support: 06:29 SFENCE_arch - Game support conflict, unable to install package on any games 06:33 [MatrxMT] The algorithm seems to go through all dependency mods of your modpack and check what games it supports. Apparently one or more dependencies do not supported hades revisited 06:33 [MatrxMT] even though basic materials DOES work on HR, it doesn't appear in the list of games on https://content.luanti.org/modnames/basic_materials/ 06:34 [MatrxMT] that might be the reason why, I'm not sure 06:36 SFENCE_arch Maybe... But probably comes from different mod. But is little compilaced if it does not reports mod or mods, where conflicts has been found. 06:36 [MatrxMT] yes, that sounds like an un-fun guessing game 06:41 SFENCE_arch Ok. Thanks for help. It move to right way. moretools mod was a reason. I have to update it before hades_extensionsmod mod pack. 08:29 repetitivestrain Why is it not possible to overwrite the storage in a VoxelManip with contents from a different region of the map? 08:30 repetitivestrain LVMs are userdata objects that are not garbage collected frequently enough for creating a new LVM whenever a MapBlock becomes eligible for regeneration to be feasible memory-wise 08:32 repetitivestrain but vm:read_from_map expands the area loaded into the VM, which tremendously inflates memory consumption in my map generator, which executes a separate postprocessing step in an async environment after terrain is emerged to generate features which may overlap MapChunks 08:32 repetitivestrain and i cannot reuse already allocated LVMs for this reason 09:10 sfan5 !tell ireallyhateirc https://discussions.unity.com/t/32-bit-vs-16-bit-mesh-index-buffers-performance-info/717510/3 09:10 MinetestBot sfan5: I'll pass that on when ireallyhateirc is around 09:12 sfan5 repetitivestrain: there's no logical reason. the API was simply never implemented that way. 09:13 repetitivestrain sfan5: https://paste.debian.net/1376472/ 09:14 repetitivestrain i propose an additional l_clear method of this nature which appears to be satisfactory 09:14 repetitivestrain and also for convenience, an extra parameter to write_to_map 09:14 repetitivestrain what do you think? 09:15 sfan5 see https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/13982 09:16 sfan5 also relevant https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/15262 09:16 repetitivestrain Hmm 09:17 repetitivestrain what do you think of the additional method I'm proposing? 09:17 repetitivestrain It is really trivial 09:19 sfan5 it's literally 13982 and supported by multiple core devs 09:19 repetitivestrain So..can someone post it to GitHub or thereabouts? 09:20 repetitivestrain For myriad reasons I can't and won't sign up for GitHub, though if you want I'd be more than glad to reformat the patch to match its surroundings 09:20 repetitivestrain I am asking because I am implementing what might easily be the most sophisticated Lua mapgen as yet created for Mineclonia, and this is a fairly pressing requirement 09:25 sfan5 it's a rainy sunday so I guess I can just implement both of the feature requests 09:25 repetitivestrain Much appreciated! 11:15 MinetestBot ireallyhateirc: May-25 09:10 UTC https://discussions.unity.com/t/32-bit-vs-16-bit-mesh-index-buffers-performance-info/717510/3 11:17 ireallyhateirc sfan5, thanks. So if I read correctly through the jargon at this level poly count is more of an artistic choice and not a technical limitation 11:18 sfan5 uh 11:19 sfan5 I was going more for "32-bit indices have performance implications and don't work on some embedded/mobile GPUs, so you should avoid them" 11:25 ireallyhateirc so we're currently at 16-bit and this implies 64K triangles? 11:26 ireallyhateirc either way I don't plan hitting that limit, I'm not yandere dev 11:28 ireallyhateirc I just roughly want to know if the resource consumption is logaritmic, linear or what not with increasing triangle count 11:33 ireallyhateirc I started with low-poly and wanted it to be a ps1-like style but the problem is that requires drawing skills which I don't have. So I increased the poly count to play with the shapes instead. 11:38 MTDiscord ireallyhateirc: you should be able to work around the limitation with multiple meshbuffers. 11:40 MTDiscord ireallyhateirc: there is not necessarily a simple answer to that. 11:40 MTDiscord generally every triangle you have needs to be sent to and rendered by the GPU. so you would expect rendering time to scale roughly linearly with the number of triangles you want to render. 11:41 ireallyhateirc mid/high-poly counts are reserved for special characters and monsters in my game, ordinary stuff is low-poly 11:41 ireallyhateirc so there would be total 2-4 characters like that on the map 11:41 MTDiscord now of course, if the bottleneck is elsewhere, e.g. in the number of drawcalls, the GPU, being highly parallel, might not be the problem, so you might be able to get more triangles "for free"... until the other bottleneck is fixed 11:41 MTDiscord ireallyhateirc: that should be fine 11:44 ireallyhateirc luatic, btw as for morph targets you will provide a demo of UV/texture space animation if/when you implement that? 11:45 MTDiscord UV animation is already implemented, i'm just too lazy to make a demo for it 11:45 MTDiscord what isn't implemented is colors because we currently abuse colors for lighting 11:46 ireallyhateirc do you use blender? if so I guess the blender workflow would be just simply keyframing the UV movement 11:47 ireallyhateirc I'll try that out if that's the case, maybe the mouth rig is unnecessary and I can indeed just use flat textures 11:47 MTDiscord note that by "already implemented" i mean my WIP PR, just so we are clear 11:49 ireallyhateirc yeah I'm aware 11:50 MTDiscord good 11:50 MTDiscord then yeah, that should work, i'd appreciate it if you gave it a try, i'm working on something else in the moment 11:51 MTDiscord we need more cool demo videos for PRs ;-) 12:12 ireallyhateirc well then I'll try animating an UV of a cube first 13:17 Krock hmm.. does the cow want a joyride? https://i.postimg.cc/B6gbYzHG/grafik.png 13:59 ireallyhateirc it looks as if it was to say "please, not this again" 14:32 ireallyhateirc @luatic, I'll try making a demo animated cube with blender workflow once I'm done with exams 14:32 ireallyhateirc though I guess you won't have the PR finished by then anyway so there's no rush 14:32 ireallyhateirc I mean animated UV 14:57 MTDiscord yeah no rush 17:36 sfan5 repetitivestrain: if you want to test, a PR is open now 17:41 MTDiscord I get the feeling that the cow is on its way to the cow incinerator. 19:55 MTDiscord Is there a patch for overlapping text boxes on startup? 19:55 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1376287661798723696/2025-05-25_15_55_20-Luanti_5.12.0_Main_Menu_OpenGL_4.6.0.png?ex=6834c744&is=683375c4&hm=7df7c962ed59c338559c588db41224435573f5df6617d7eb382afd25146591e4& 19:58 sfan5 hah 19:59 MTDiscord um, is this expected behavior? 19:59 MTDiscord or like a bug? 19:59 sfan5 no it's obviously a bug 19:59 sfan5 which luanti version did you have installed previously? 20:01 MTDiscord > scoop update luanti luanti: 5.11.0 -> 5.12.0 Updating one outdated app: Updating 'luanti' (5.11.0 -> 5.12.0) Downloading new version luanti-5.12.0-win64.zip (15.9 MB) [===========================================================================================================================] 100% Checking hash of luanti-5.12.0-win64.zip ... ok. Uninstalling 'luanti' (5.11.0) Unlinking C:\Scoop\apps\luanti\current Installing 'luanti' 20:01 MTDiscord (5.12.0) [64bit] from 'games' bucket Loading luanti-5.12.0-win64.zip from cache Extracting luanti-5.12.0-win64.zip ... done. Linking C:\Scoop\apps\luanti\current => C:\Scoop\apps\luanti\5.12.0 Creating shortcut for Luanti (luanti.exe) Persisting config Persisting mods Persisting screenshots Persisting worlds Running post_install script...done. 'luanti' (5.12.0) was installed successfully! 20:02 MTDiscord (5.11.0 -> 5.12.0) 20:02 MTDiscord lol 20:02 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1376289265675141130/image.png?ex=6834c8c3&is=68337743&hm=7a7c3dc95a2b2888b5f761426204057f23b5e77334e81bf0272eae5b9ad7fa1e& 20:02 sfan5 how does scoop handle copying the user data? 20:03 MTDiscord symlink to a folder, updates the link as part of the post install to point to the old (maybe stale) data 20:04 sfan5 well, not sure if that violates any engine expectations 20:05 MTDiscord by the screen shot I'd say at least one (two menus will never need to be shown at the same time) 20:05 MTDiscord wait you can see it on irc right? 20:07 sfan5 sure 20:07 rubenwardy that's multiple dialogs being shown at once, fstk is a bit stupid and doesn't have any guarantees against this - if you :show() multiple, multiple will show 20:09 MTDiscord so uh breaking news, not the only case of the bug? 20:09 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1376291065723617430/2025-05-25_16_08_39-Luanti_5.12.0_Main_Menu_OpenGL_4.6.0.png?ex=6834ca70&is=683378f0&hm=1e442b014e457223d0fd1caa8bbfe1050010f1ebd2844df3731cbef027cffe5b& 20:09 MTDiscord in this case it breaks the setings menu. 20:10 MTDiscord can I restart my client or do you need more data? 20:11 Krock put a salt circle around your PC 20:11 Krock and burn some weed to get rid of the spooky ghosts 20:11 MTDiscord Good idea. 20:11 MTDiscord I'm a coding vampire, how the hell would I use it if I did? 20:12 MTDiscord With a hazmat suit. 20:12 MTDiscord ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 20:12 MTDiscord Whatever, restarting! 20:19 MTDiscord Well ESC crashed the client, and after restarting the world files have come to balance. 20:19 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1376293662450913290/2025-05-25_16_19_14-Luanti_5.12.0_Main_Menu_OpenGL_4.6.0.png?ex=6834ccdb&is=68337b5b&hm=2ff38a34b22dad4d483c018e0b60dca55fa7a45f4b22581483268e7d1713bdb5& 20:20 sfan5 it sounds like scoop may be discarding the cache folder on upgrades 20:22 MTDiscord looks like it only persists wait... my client mods!!!! Persisting config Persisting mods Persisting screenshots Persisting worlds 20:22 MTDiscord noo! 20:45 MTDiscord hey, how do I bypass this "feature" Refusing to unregister item default:grass_1 after load time 20:46 MTDiscord Stop and restart the server, so it's no longer after load time anymore. 20:46 cheapie You fix the bug in the mod triggering it 20:47 MTDiscord I'm writing the bug, I wish do modify node/texture info after [ServerStart] 20:47 MTDiscord *to 20:48 MTDiscord Then you fix the bug in your brain that's causing you to want that 😏 20:48 MTDiscord You can override_item to modify stuff after load time, but I don't think there are any guarantees whether visuals like textures can be changed that way. 20:48 [MatrxMT] 🤔 20:48 sfan5 the last moment when you can modify these is in a core.register_on_mods_loaded callback 20:48 MTDiscord er no, after loading SOME things but not after the end of mod load time, right 20:49 MTDiscord so you depend on default so the def already exists, then modify it at load time. 20:49 MTDiscord So I can't live reload? Not even if I build it myself? That sucks... 20:50 MTDiscord You can "live" reload if your definition of "live" allows for a ~5 second server restart. 20:51 MTDiscord If you want to be able to change the appearance of a node at runtime, your options are IIRC (1) a handful of things involving param2 types, and (2) making it not a node. 20:51 MTDiscord At this point it looks to be easier to recreate the engine than to work within its constrains... 20:52 MTDiscord In theory you could swap out different node definitions entirely, but those are rather limited ... but it works in cases where you only have a few different needs. 20:52 MTDiscord Yeah, that's probably the best approach if you've got a few years of free time to throw at the problem. 20:53 MTDiscord Maybe... next time... 20:53 MTDiscord Obviously if it were easy to live reload node defintion data, then the engine would already do it. At best, it's moderately difficult and only hasn't been done because nobody has bothered yet (you could be the first). At worst it's a huge pain in the ass and you'll run into unexpected pitfalls all along the way until you start to doubt whether the goal is reachable at all. 20:56 MTDiscord Maybe, but maybe I don't need to work alone... more for the list I guess //todo 20:57 sfan5 live reloading stuff while there are no players on the server is probably not that hard, but I doubt this is the kind of "live reloading" most people are interested in 20:58 * cheapie briefly imagines a whole world made out of only entities 20:59 MTDiscord I literally wrote a new modloader to do this exact thing, I would call that interest 20:59 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1376303595611226254/2025-05-25_16_58_45-Luanti_5.12.0_Main_Menu_OpenGL_4.6.0.png?ex=6834d61b&is=6833849b&hm=366dd9095b6342e7fb6dfcfb883c5a9d78ac15be884dec41db01ab78ff28403d& 20:59 MTDiscord cheapie: the hero we needed. 21:00 cheapie D: 21:01 MTDiscord Oh it wasn't that hard, took a bit but it works``` 21:01 MTDiscord local function main() --returns null --c127:log("\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n",modname, modpath) minetest.chat_send_all(minetest.colorize("#ffffff", "Reloading.")) io.flush() local modnames = c127:getDirList(table.concat({modpath,"mods"},DIR_DELIM), true) visited, stack={},{} for _, modname in ipairs(modnames) do loadmod(modname, true) --[[ local backup_G = c127:deepCopy(_G) local isSuccess, 21:01 MTDiscord errorStr = {true, nil} isSuccess, errorStr = pcall(loadmod, ) c127:log(">> <<"..type(isSuccess).." ".. tostring(isSuccess)) c127:deepRestore(_G, backup_G) if not isSuccess then c127:log("Loading was interrupted with error:\r\n".. errorStr) end --]] end --if not setfenv then c127:log("true") end minetest.chat_send_all(minetest.colorize("#ffffff", 21:01 MTDiscord "Loading Done.")) end main() 21:01 MTDiscord ++ abit 21:02 MTDiscord thats the main loaderer loader tho 21:02 MTDiscord You can grep for that string and modify the necessary file to make it not do this. 21:03 MTDiscord nathan422: I have no idea how that fixes anything... thanks I guess? 21:03 MTDiscord You're welcome. ;) 21:08 MTDiscord still need to figure out how to get the life cycle stage tho... 21:08 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1376305907969036338/2025-05-25_17_08_05-Luanti_5.12.0_Singleplayer_OpenGL_4.6.0.png?ex=6834d842&is=683386c2&hm=cde802849f18ebf15a62d0bcca51f060da6f6ae1013ef600874b1774d3b0b8df& 21:08 MTDiscord But look it works 21:08 MTDiscord ☺️