Time Nick Message 13:31 [MatrxMT] whys that so goofy 15:12 rebka hi 15:12 rebka how are u today guys 15:12 rebka =* 15:14 [MatrxMT] not bad, just enjoying linuxforks 15:14 rebka owh 15:14 rebka can u share with me whats forks are using? 15:15 [MatrxMT] it's a server 15:15 [MatrxMT] https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?t=17465 15:15 [MatrxMT] I use metal fork out of steel 15:15 rebka oh 15:15 rebka okie 15:15 rebka btw 15:15 rebka im using solus linux 15:16 [MatrxMT] btw i use linux too 15:16 rebka im also very impressed that someone keep talking in irc chats nowadays 15:16 rebka hey 15:16 rebka whats distro? 15:17 [MatrxMT] well minetest-c55, now Luanti, goes back to 2011. People just never stopped using IRC 15:17 rebka i see it 15:17 [MatrxMT] Unlike Windows or macOS, Linux is just a kernel. Distros are when people build more software on top, enough that someone can actually use it on their computer with the software they expect 15:18 rebka probably yet 15:18 [MatrxMT] i use endeavour os 15:18 rebka i more prefer the linux for him lightweightness and advanced customization 15:19 [MatrxMT] Luanti has a lot of Linux users, probably equal or more than Windows users 15:20 rebka can’t be wrong, but endeavour os is that something like corporative product? 15:20 rebka as such a fedora? 15:21 [MatrxMT] Endeavour is a community project more than Red Hat's Fedora 15:21 rebka it's just my list of main distros are mint, solus and void. 15:21 rebka aa 15:21 rebka understandable 15:22 MTDiscord I use arch, btw 15:22 rebka meme) 15:22 MTDiscord calling fedora a corporate product seems odd. i use fedora btw 15:22 rebka btw 15:22 rebka who is making edits in a kdenlive here? 15:22 MTDiscord It's a tradition 15:22 [MatrxMT] you can't really extract Fedora from RHEL in the end 15:22 MTDiscord either way i welcome it if people find a way to make open source work economically. where do you think the linux foundation gets its funding from? 15:22 rebka i can introduce my own editing clan/community named as GNU EDITING 15:23 MTDiscord where? 15:23 [MatrxMT] its a arch but with a installer 15:24 [MatrxMT] anyway this room is about Luanti, please try to talk at least kind of related to that 15:24 MTDiscord all kinds of corporations which have realized that linux is indispensable. 15:24 MTDiscord I'm thinking of making a "Making an aimbot in minetest" video, I'll be going to edit it in kdenlive I don't really know any other good opensource software 15:24 [MatrxMT] do we have #linux-irc 15:24 [MatrxMT] for that you want a real IRC client, or another Matrix room 15:25 rebka who plays Mineclonia, guys? 15:25 [MatrxMT] I don't play it myself, but I try to make my mods compatible with it 15:25 MTDiscord hehe many years ago i made an aimbot, but i never used it 15:25 rebka bruh 15:26 MTDiscord This was like a fun "question" because I was learning trigonometry anyway lol 15:26 rebka im invisible for everyone... 15:26 rebka its sad 15:26 MTDiscord who said that? 15:26 MTDiscord Nah I'm just kidding, everyone plays it 15:26 rebka erh 15:26 [MatrxMT] your name is so short 15:26 MTDiscord aimbots are funny business because if you do them right, they're impossible to detect. 15:26 MTDiscord In fact celeron55 created it while he was asleep 15:26 rebka him name is too short) 15:27 MTDiscord hence why i find it so absurd when client cheat devs claim that the fix to every cheat is to "just check it on the server bro". 15:27 MTDiscord for many cheats that's possible, sure. for something like an aimbot, it's just clearly not. or many possible rendering cheats. 15:27 MTDiscord You could detect aimbot's if the player's yaw and pitch change rapidly, but the client can just decide to not send them 15:27 [MatrxMT] FPS is stone dead, killed by advanced undetectable aimbotting and the whiff of money and prestige 15:28 [MatrxMT] is players sre too good they cheat easy finding 15:28 MTDiscord nexus: this is all included in "if you do it right". you can interpolate rotations. you can even mix in random if servers start using statistics to detect someone's aim being "too good". an excellent player will essentially be indistinguishable from an excellent aimbot. 15:28 MTDiscord Btw, how does this std::vector store objects? Is it stored by closest to farthest? 15:29 MTDiscord look at the comparator DistanceSortedActiveObject defines 15:29 MTDiscord Right 15:29 MTDiscord If you ctrl click it, you should see the implementation 15:29 rebka who have the access for a kdenlive irc chat room? i need it immediately! 15:29 MTDiscord That's a useful trick man, thanks 15:29 [MatrxMT] kid en live? 15:30 rebka yeas 15:30 rebka KDEnLive 15:30 rebka im a kdenlive professional multieditor 15:30 rebka photo 15:30 rebka audio 15:30 rebka video 15:30 MTDiscord the only hard fix there is for cheating is essentially to move the client to the server and just stream controls, rendered images, and sound, but that's not viable with current connections. 15:30 [MatrxMT] no idea 15:30 rebka im also have the two channels on the youtube 15:30 rebka and two in odysee 15:30 rebka storydiscounter 15:30 MTDiscord Anytime bro 15:30 rebka and @gnuediting 15:31 MTDiscord rebka there is a kdenlive irc 15:31 rebka i need to go away for a while 15:31 MTDiscord and even that hard fix isn't a hard fix as people might as well whip up whatever AI there is by the time connections are good enough for this to be viable and have them play the game in their stead 15:31 rebka i can't find it 15:32 rebka im see only the matrix room and forum of them 15:32 MTDiscord Even if we do that and roll out a new version, many would be still using the old version and in turn a loss of player would occur. 15:33 MTDiscord yeah this is not viable for luanti at all, i'm just theorizing here 15:34 MTDiscord Is there a plan to make the luanti protocol E2E so that sniffing of packets would not be possible? 15:34 MTDiscord okay rebka run the command /j #kdenlive 15:34 MTDiscord that's not really related but yeah, there is a distant plan for that 15:35 MTDiscord Cool, I was just wondering 15:36 rebka thank 15:36 rebka s 15:37 MTDiscord nexus: my long-term hope is that we get something like QUIC, esp. because it would probably outperform our current protocol in terms of reliability and performance 15:37 [MatrxMT] connections will never be that good, speed of light being what it is and ISPs being what they are 15:37 MTDiscord does it already compress packets? 15:40 MTDiscord That's a great idea, it would also reduce the overhead caused by encryption 18:40 Helenah Hi, how do I have the minimap open by default? It is getting annoying when I have to press V to open it each time I log into a server. 18:52 Krock_ Helenah: just never leave the server 18:53 Krock_ a more reasonable answer is: no, there's no such setting. 18:53 MTDiscord helenah, you can use a CSM if it's enabled on the server to automatically open it for you. 18:53 Krock_ oh indeed. I totally forgot the minimap is exposed to CSM too 18:54 MTDiscord Everyone does 18:54 MTDiscord We have a setting to remember the F5 debug view, and fly mode, so having one to remember the minimap mode would not be unreasonable. It'd just take some PRing. 18:55 MTDiscord And, I suppose, some bikeshedding over whether there should be separate settings to "remember" vs "reset" these settings 😆 18:55 MTDiscord (I run Luanti inside a wrapper script and one of the things it does is modify the conf file right before launch to reset some settings that are remembered that I don't want remembered) 18:57 MTDiscord Helenah: There's a built-in version csm I think, if I remember the default behavior correctly it automatically opens the mini map once enabled. You can easily copy and modify the behavior from that script, real shame you can't share them on the forum though. 18:58 MTDiscord CSM sharing is prohibited on the forums? 👀 that's news to me... 18:58 MTDiscord Maybe I misread the rules? 18:58 MTDiscord English is hard 18:59 MTDiscord https://forum.luanti.org/viewforum.php?f=53 18:59 MTDiscord there is a whole subforum for CSMs... 18:59 Helenah Thanks, the CSM option, forgot about those... (typed via gamepad) 19:00 MTDiscord With a "no CSMs" rule that whole subforum would just be a giant honeypot 😆 19:00 Krock_ I'm so used to colored nicknames (CSM of mine) that I totally forgot that they exist... 19:01 Helenah Sorry, I get excited when at my couch machine... 19:01 MTDiscord 2 subsection 2, Hacking/Cheating: : It is not permissible to promote, link, or otherwise direct Forum users to any kind of "hacking" or "cheating" tools, regardless of their claimed purpose. This includes but is not limited to scripts, bots, modified Luanti clients, CSM mods, third-party programs, etc. This can be interpreted very loosely, that's why I missremembered it 19:02 MTDiscord I know that feeling. Sometimes I forget that some servers don't allow stock clients to view the f5 info. 19:02 Krock_ a cheat client is done with a 1 LoC change 19:02 MTDiscord It makes it really annoying to get or tell people coordinates. 19:02 MTDiscord I am aware of that. :D 19:03 MTDiscord LoC? Does that stand for something? 19:03 MTDiscord nathan422: have you stopped to consider that hiding the coordinates from you might be the point 19:03 Krock_ and checking against mod security issues is often only possible by sending packets using a modified client. not very beautiful but it does the job 19:03 MTDiscord Yes. That's why it's annoying. 19:04 Krock_ LoC = Lines of Code 19:04 MTDiscord LoC = Loss of Consciousness. 19:04 MTDiscord Location of Crab 19:05 Helenah Glad I hang out on builders servers then, F5 is useful... o.o 19:06 MTDiscord Oh okay thanks, programmer terminology gets crazy for me sometimes. 19:06 MTDiscord lol = lines of lua btw 19:06 MTDiscord lol 19:08 Krock_ lol = lots of lua 19:09 MTDiscord toml=too much lua 19:09 Helenah I guess the lua guys wanted to confuse the hell out of people chatting about lua... 19:09 Krock hmm.. is there any code golf challenge for Luanti/Minetest? 19:09 Krock fun ways to (ab)use the API or insane Lua trickery 19:10 MTDiscord looks at her hack client uh, no? 19:10 MTDiscord I have a one line mod that adds a /sigsegv command, and it was really useful to test my gdb automation. 19:10 Krock for example, converting OOP to C-like calls: local get_pos = randomplayer.get_pos; local my_pos = get_pos(otherplayer) 19:11 MTDiscord i have some insane lua trickery around, i should put it on my bloarg sometime 19:11 MTDiscord that looks like a nanooptimization 19:11 Helenah Anyway, whichever servers don't like you viewing F5 info, I must never pay them a visit, EVER! 19:11 MTDiscord Pico optimization. 19:11 MTDiscord Femto optimization 19:12 Krock Helenah: I pay them a respect visit by checking for bugs :3 19:12 MTDiscord Also can I please get the timer from the socket Library exposed to the API, I need six digits of precision. 19:12 MTDiscord Ha, when even the developers are hostile to their own users, I guess it's about time to make all servers private then. 19:13 MTDiscord C: no you don't 19:13 Helenah I must be on some libertarian servers, I guess. 19:13 MTDiscord https://tenor.com/view/hungry-please-sir-may-i-have-some-more-oliver-mark-lester-poor-gif-7821643 19:13 MTDiscord Your failure to learn how to use get_us_time cannot be cured by providing you with a second implementation of it. 19:13 MTDiscord the socket api itself is useful, but the timer is like the least useful thing given the existence of get_us_time. 19:14 MTDiscord to put it plainly: this is the maybe the worst reason to ask for the socket api. 19:14 MTDiscord That only gives you three digits of precision, it's basically useless to me 19:14 MTDiscord ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 19:14 MTDiscord There's already an open issue for luasockets integration. It's work-around-able enough with mod trust for the time being, but IIRC there are still issues with the lack of standardization 19:15 MTDiscord C: it will give you whatever precision your operating system allows, up to a maximum of 6 digits 19:16 MTDiscord Yeah I tested the compile, it gives me six digits I want six digits 19:16 MTDiscord So you do want get_us_time? 19:16 MTDiscord Also what workaround 19:18 MTDiscord >wants six digits of precision >get_us_time has six digits of precision >doesnt want to use get_us_time ??? 19:20 MTDiscord The IRC won't see it but c also. https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/369123175583186964/1381427067509280768 19:20 MTDiscord I'll cross post in a second I'm at work 19:21 MTDiscord Why did you divide by 1000 19:21 MTDiscord That would be milliseconds 19:21 MTDiscord Float division is broken, if you convert to number you don't lose precision 19:21 MTDiscord At least that's what I suspect 19:21 MTDiscord I don't actually know for sure, just works on my machine 19:21 MTDiscord What was your goal?? get_us_time returns an int 19:22 MTDiscord what? float division is not broken, lua 5.1 numbers are just doubles, the return value of get_us_time is exact... 19:22 MTDiscord It returns a number with millisecond precision, I need more since the processor will execute tasks faster and each execution won't have a unique traceable 19:23 MTDiscord He's asking an ignorant person the answer to a question I don't know, that's my best response based on observation 19:23 MTDiscord no get_us_time returns a value with microsecond precision, unless your OS has a problem with that. 19:23 MTDiscord (us means µs in case it isnt clear) 19:23 MTDiscord It's not 19:23 MTDiscord I thought it was just US time 19:24 MTDiscord You know how the Americans are being defaults and all 19:24 MTDiscord Did .. did you read the docs? 19:24 MTDiscord Also Luanti is developed primarily in europe 19:24 MTDiscord When have you ever known me to read documentation 19:25 MTDiscord Well anyway, you dont need to divide if you are just comparing times. If you really want a decimal representation of seconds, divide by 1000000 19:25 MTDiscord What would "US time" even be?? 19:25 MTDiscord Based on my testing you're wrong but okay 19:25 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1381715954173739018/2025-06-08_14_24_57-Command_Prompt_-_lua.png?ex=684886c2&is=68473542&hm=b574d024b2932b940a15f72ae01180bfc71697f5dca6481603467145a2be6b41& 19:26 MTDiscord Look every decision was made intentionally, I'm not burning clock cycle for fun here. If you had a thought I had a thought about it yesterday and this was the solution, we're both programmers in all you're doing is following the logic I already traversed to get the algorithm I have. 19:28 MTDiscord Any other questions? 19:28 MTDiscord It's three digits of precision guaranteed via us_ um... whatever the call was called? 19:28 MTDiscord Or is that based on the operating system 19:28 MTDiscord It's 6 19:29 MTDiscord Microseconds means "millionths of a second" 19:30 MTDiscord Green is really going to make me cross post the entire discussion huh, fine https://discord.com/channels/369122544273588224/369123175583186964/1381427067509280768 19:30 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1381717086744612874/2025-06-08_20_14_52-Luanti_5.12.0_Singleplayer_OpenGL_4.6.0.png?ex=684887d0&is=68473650&hm=18482466d25a188373b9b206c4331a16a40e161765b03d623dca6a9f60313f90& 19:30 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1381717087336136764/2025-06-08_20_17_06-Luanti_5.12.0_Singleplayer_OpenGL_4.6.0-1.png?ex=684887d0&is=68473650&hm=1c54702d45ffaa412a78033c2d14834f79ba8139f62d562d0f9e9587cfc9c859& 19:30 MTDiscord No, C, I already read it 19:30 MTDiscord You divided wrong 19:30 MTDiscord You are converting microseconds to milliseconds 19:30 MTDiscord Then how do you explain the numbers not changing between executions 19:31 MTDiscord ??? They do 19:31 MTDiscord What I did there guarantees a change between logged messages 19:31 MTDiscord Every single number there is different 19:32 MTDiscord Three digits of precision 19:32 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1381717504375787672/Screenshot_20250609_153151_Discord.png?ex=68488834&is=684736b4&hm=770959de3f8cc9a5571e0c8c4c45657f42318ee5e39dda3365875400e5f6f8ad& 19:32 MTDiscord Which is the bloody problem I've been whining about 19:32 MTDiscord Thats not 3 digits of precision, C, that's 3 digits that happen to change in the span you are running your calls 19:33 MTDiscord I'm running them one after the other, look fine if you want to count it's 13 digit and I need 16 that doesn't change anything 19:33 MTDiscord when we say digits of precision, we're talking about seconds, the SI base unit for time. what the heck are you talking about? 19:34 MTDiscord I'm talking about the fractional amount after the second 19:34 MTDiscord So you're saying you want 6 decimal digits upon milliseconds, so ... nanoseconds? 19:34 MTDiscord What you have posted is not seconds, you have posted millisconds 19:34 MTDiscord 6 digits of precision after the second would be microseconds, which is what get_us_time does. 19:34 MTDiscord I don't really even need six I just need four, currently I have three 19:34 MTDiscord just convert it to seconds. Correctly. 19:34 MTDiscord I don't know how else to express that, and I'm sorry I don't speak programmer but I work in management 19:34 MTDiscord Not even really management either 19:34 MTDiscord Dividing by 1000 gets you milliseconds, not seconds 19:34 MTDiscord you asked how many microseconds, then divided by 1000 and then pretended that your milliseconds were seconds. 19:36 MTDiscord I was expecting to say "not even really working, either". ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 19:36 MTDiscord no no no, whatever it is that I did wasn't precise enough, debates of the terminology aside I just need bigger number go up, that's it 19:36 MTDiscord Because if I set these as keys there's room for overlap in a hash table 19:36 MTDiscord Ultimately that's the best way to phrase it for programmers I guess 19:37 MTDiscord I want so much precision that conflicts are impossible 19:37 MTDiscord Precision does not change 19:37 MTDiscord microseconds are microseconds. Division simply changes the representation. 19:37 MTDiscord Which was the goal to avoid the weird error with float rounding 19:37 MTDiscord As stated previously 19:37 MTDiscord Ok but just dont divide 19:37 MTDiscord Want a clean index? Dont divide. Use the microsecond integer. 19:38 MTDiscord 6 digits of precision 19:38 MTDiscord right there 19:38 MTDiscord Green does the division change the numbers, does it make it more accurate? Then that's not the bloody point. 19:38 MTDiscord I need more numbers, that's all 19:38 MTDiscord The significant digits don't change I need to call that does change them 19:38 MTDiscord you don't need more numbers 19:38 MTDiscord You already have enough numbers 19:38 MTDiscord If the amount of time your functions are taking isn't enough, just make them slower. 19:38 MTDiscord The numbers, C! What do they mean? 19:38 MTDiscord if you really want an index, just autoincrement an integer? 19:39 MTDiscord Probably not the point 19:39 MTDiscord I hate reusing a joke but it's a good joke https://youtu.be/IsvIdcmMybI 19:39 MTDiscord tbh this "I need more numbers and cannot coherently explain why" business is bordering on Rule 2 spam at this point, especially in a bridged channel where IRC and Matrix users have to listen to this too. 19:40 MTDiscord Didn't want to cross post in the first place, but your admin kept asking 19:41 MTDiscord Just don't bring it up again and you won't have people calling you out on it. 19:41 MTDiscord Dont put words in my mouth, I did not ask you to cross post, and you started this by asking for a precise time function continuing a conversation from elsewhere 19:41 MTDiscord Look forget it, I'll just require secure mod and lose the contest cuz I have to put a tag for complex installation 19:41 MTDiscord Having this conversation especially on the IRC Bridge, it's no longer productive 19:41 MTDiscord Just forget I asked 19:42 MTDiscord That's the spirit! ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 19:42 MTDiscord Im moving this back to #development 19:43 MTDiscord Sincerest apologies to IRC and Matrix folks 20:03 ireallyhateirc I heard someone said bad stuff about IRC 20:03 ireallyhateirc not cool 20:05 MTDiscord Says the person whose name is "ireallyhateirc". ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 20:06 MTDiscord "I really hate IRC" isn't necessarily something bad about IRC. You could be the type of person who only hates stuff that's really good, so you hating it is actually high praise. 21:08 MTDiscord how do i talk to swissalps? 21:11 hello485 i hate discord and will not use it 21:11 MinetestBot hello485: Jun-08 20:38 UTC only in structures, either seeds in chests or on villager fields