Time Nick Message 02:43 [MatrxMT] https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?t=23528 02:43 [MatrxMT] rather https://content.luanti.org/packages/Emojiminetest/linetrack/ 02:44 [MatrxMT] the system works just like Advtrains tracks 02:54 repetitivestrain amusing bug: it is now possible to edit the version text in the pause menu 02:54 [MatrxMT] formspec prepend? I think it is known that that can override the pause menu 02:55 repetitivestrain no, it's actually become an editable text input widget 02:55 [MatrxMT] lol 03:34 cheapie For me it has a cursor and I can move it around but not edit anything with it 03:35 cheapie Shame I can't edit it into 5.15 :P 03:36 [MatrxMT] 5.15? you're as far ahead as the people with xbox 720 or 1080 in 2006 05:33 repetitivestrain there is a cursor and editing works, but not delete or shift 05:33 repetitivestrain or backspace 14:04 user2_ yeah, i just confirmed you can mess with the text in the pause menu- you can add characters but not delete them 14:06 user2_ it was probably caused by commit 9972639 as it didnt work before that- 14:07 user2_ that is a very interesting bug- 14:35 [MatrxMT] cheapie: You can edit it into 5.15 in the overwrite mode (press the insert key) 14:36 [MatrxMT] Looks like I did not test the PR thoroughly enough when reviewing it; oops. 14:37 user2_ i now have "Lu-non-ti 5.15.1-dev" in my pause menu ;-; 14:47 [MatrxMT] #16504 14:47 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16504 -- Add missing IsWritable checks by y5nw 15:02 user2_ seems to have fixed it 16:35 cheapie y5nw: I see https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20250921_113502.png 16:36 cheapie Interestingly shift seems to be ignored, the characters come out lowercase anyway 16:48 [MatrxMT] i am trying to clone with git clone and have been unsucsessful/cloned the wrong thing several times now 16:49 [MatrxMT] github is a hassle 16:49 [MatrxMT] well git has got a sharp learning curve for sure 16:50 user2_ how so? i just use 'git clone --depth 1 -b master https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti.git' 16:50 cheapie y5nw: OK, I've had my fun, you can fix it now: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20250921_114752.png 16:50 user2_ i also use git to manage my backups- its great :D 16:50 [MatrxMT] user2_: why are you specifying a branch though? The default branch doesn't need to be named by the end user, that's what git will fetch and checkout by default 16:51 user2_ just by habit, i tend to do -b stable-5 often 16:52 [MatrxMT] birdlover32767: all you need to do is copy and paste the URL to the main page of any github repo. So: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti becomes `git clone https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti` 16:54 user2_ it doesnt have to be a github repo in specific- it can also be gitlab/another repo folder on your PC 16:54 user2_ (and most of the other git platforms) 16:54 [MatrxMT] correct, this explanation just points out one very specific action. Same idea on GitLab, gitea, ... 16:55 user2_ yeah, for the most basic users, 'git clone ' should be enough 16:58 [MatrxMT] first my internet went out while cloning, then i accidentally copied from the link in the readme.md, then i accidentally cloned from master instead of some other branch 16:59 [MatrxMT] so it's more my fault tbh 16:59 [MatrxMT] well, it's easier to check out other branches than to re-clone the whole thing 16:59 [MatrxMT] `git checkout -b ` 17:00 [MatrxMT] ...i was using the github webpage 17:00 [MatrxMT] downloading zip files? 17:00 [MatrxMT] cloning .git files 17:00 [MatrxMT] well on the bright side, you learned several things not to do next time 17:01 [MatrxMT] cheapie: I suppose you don't mind being featured on #16504? 17:01 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16504 -- Add missing IsWritable checks by y5nw 17:01 user2_ :O i just got 5.1.1 to compile on linux 17:01 [MatrxMT] why 5.1.1 17:01 cheapie y5nw: Go for it :P 17:01 user2_ it's very broken- and i want to see if i can get all 5.x versions on linux 17:02 [MatrxMT] cheapie: Already done (-> "Gallery") 17:02 * cheapie nods, saw it 17:02 user2_ had to modify a file and specify like 5 options for cmake- and watch 5000 warnings scroll by 17:03 [MatrxMT] also for some reason it did not clone some submodules even though i specified --recursive 17:03 user2_ uh- iirc you dont need to specify --recursive... 17:03 [MatrxMT] so now i have to reinstall them... ugh 17:03 [MatrxMT] reclone* 17:04 user2_ only some repos need --recursive- not luanti-org/luanti tho 17:04 [MatrxMT] cheapie: Done 17:06 user2_ you can also use wget to download a specific release- 'wget https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/archive/refs/tags/.zip' 17:20 user2_ got 5.1.0 to compile as well- 17:21 Krock if you need old binaries - get the Windows' builds and run them in Wine if you don't have Windows 17:21 [MatrxMT] win32 is the most stable API on Linux :rollsafe: 17:22 Krock ironically those are the most compatible in terms of ABI 17:22 user2_ i want to run them properly- also wine doesn't work for me on <=5.5.0 17:22 user2_ also, using wine is a lot less fun then compiling :D 17:28 user2_ well 5.1.0 works- i can play a 5.14.0-dev server with it 17:30 user2_ trying 5.0.1 now- 17:31 user2_ soo many warnings- 17:39 user2_ 5.0.1 compiled- i'm almost in 0.4x territory ;-; 17:44 erle user2_ i am curious. 1 do you intend to document your journey? 2. what is your solution to the “we have submodules at home” situation with irrlichtmt? 17:46 user2_ it's pretty easy tbh- download the zip of the version's src code, unzip it, add '#include ' to src/clientiface.h, and use a couple options with CMake, hold on... 17:47 user2_ here are the options for CMake: -DRUN_IN_PLACE=TRUE -DCMAKE_CXX_FLAGS="-std=c++03" -DENABLE_LUAJIT=OFF -DENABLE_SOUND=OFF 17:47 user2_ i turned off luajit and sound to avoid any issues with them 17:48 user2_ for 5.4.1-5.2.0 you only need to add '#include ' in clientiface.h 17:50 user2_ for dependencies, they actually weren't an issue, just copy/paste the list from README.md and it works 17:55 erle user2_ you might want to disable LTO in later builds unless you want to wait forever for little benefit 17:56 user2_ linking takes like 3 seconds for them right now 17:56 user2_ so i don't think it will be an issue 18:02 erle user2_ older builds do not have LTO enabled by default. but with LTO, linking takes ages and consumes a lot more memory. depends on your machine if this is a problem though. while i own no machine on which it would not be an issue, some people apparently don't notice such overhead. 18:04 user2_ i have 8GB of RAM and a 4-core CPU @2.4 GHZ- it compiles in ~10min with all 4 cores 18:06 cheapie I have 64GiB and a 16-core CPU @ 4ishGHz, current version compiles client+server in 57 seconds 18:06 user2_ my old PC has 2GB of RAM and a 2-core CPU @1.4 GHZ- takes ~30min to compile and gets ~0.3 FPS ;-; 18:07 user2_ 5.0.0 just compiled, ima see if it runs 18:08 luatic how big of a problem LTO is probably depends a lot on your linker, with mold it might be acceptable. but i usually disable it as well. 18:09 user2_ compiling doesn't take too long for me so idc too much 18:10 user2_ one thing i have noticed is newer clients (especially 5.11+) get much higher FPS than older ones 18:11 erle user2_ 0.3 fps, what graphics are you running with it? 18:11 user2_ uhh- the internal GPU of an ancient laptop (intel graphics) 18:11 erle user2_ what one? 18:11 user2_ i'm not sure tbh 18:12 user2_ 5.1.1 got ~20FPS in windows XP, but 5.13.0 got 0.3 FPS- 18:12 erle oh, that's easy 18:12 erle they removed the opengl 1.x renderer 18:12 user2_ yeah, that's the issue- 18:13 user2_ that was removed in... 5.10 iirc? 18:13 erle i think 5.11? 18:13 erle this means you can't play it on old hardware anymore and on newer (but weak) hardware that nominally supports newer opengl still gets a noticeable frame drop 18:13 user2_ yeah, this has opengl 1.4.0 ;-; 18:13 user2_ my main PC supports opengl 3.1 18:14 erle the issue is not about what it supports 18:14 erle i have several computers that support newer opengl, but older opengl runs better performance-wise 18:14 erle it is not productive to just look at what the specs support 18:14 user2_ older opengl tends to have more visual bugs from my experience 18:15 erle wdym? 18:15 user2_ i tend to get more visual bugs on older opengl... 18:15 erle for example, several intel integrated chipsets actually can support opengl 2.0 but mesa artificially limits it to 1.4 or 1.5 because otherwise chrome takes a rendering part that is less efficient on that hardware (it defaults to newer opengl) 18:15 erle s/part/path/ 18:16 user2_ i'm pretty sure this can't use newer opengl- as in no hardware support 18:16 user2_ luantiserver runs perfectly tho 18:17 user2_ well, i got all 5.x versions running on linux, so that goal is achieved 18:17 * SwissalpS claps 18:18 user2_ (except for the 5.8.1 android version ofc, that's just a bugfix for android) 18:19 erle luatic i think the irony is that if you use LTO for games that you run on the same machine (i.e. not a release build), most machines that have no problems doing the LTO (i.e. have enough RAM and CPU to spare) won't benefit much from the savings. 18:19 erle luatic meanwhile, machines that could benefit in some way from the LTO don't have the resources to do it themselves 18:19 luatic well yes, LTO makes most sense for release builds intended for distribution 18:20 erle you can actually see this with some other game engine stuff, where building the thing has higher requirements than running it. if LTO is enabled 18:20 erle i think godot has LTO enabled by default too 18:20 erle bizarre decision, but again “gamers who are devs have the best possible hardware” 18:20 user2_ i get modern versions to build/link perfectly on my RPi5 18:27 erle user2_ btw, enable mipmaps. they look shit (because of a long-standing unwillingness to scale graphics in a gamma-correct way), but they can improve performance IIRC. 18:29 Desour erle: can you actually measure a performance difference with mipmapping for textures as small as in luanti usually? 18:30 erle Desour depends on view range obviously. though i, as always, ask people to perform their own measurements. and not with mesa software renderer. the software renderer knows no limits excepd the thermal throttling on your CPU. 18:32 erle in fact, i think if a lot more people would actually try to test their graphics code instead of conjecturing, there would be a lot fewer rendering problems in a lot of software. 18:32 Desour erle: yeah, but I mean on one of your machines with gpu opengl 18:33 erle i think it's the same as the triangle merging thing: if your machine is “good enough”, you won't notice it 18:33 erle give me a moment 18:37 Desour the triangle merging thing (it was called "fast faces") caused fewer triangles, but same count of mesh buffers. so yes, it is possible that it makes things slower on machines where luanti is gpu bound 18:43 erle i think it was not removed because of that though, but because no one could find it making a tangible difference on coredev hardware 18:44 erle also unless i am remembering it wrong one triangle in a strip always was different (had the wrong winding or something), which may have inhibited a trivial lighting system improvement 18:44 erle although i never saw anyone except lizzy and me discussing this 18:44 sfan5 because it's a waste of time to discuss 18:45 Desour removing it makes things slower* I meant 18:46 erle i think you misunderstand. now that you don't have the triangle merging, that solution could be used … if you still used irrlicht. 18:46 erle in any case, i'll check the mipmap performance now 18:49 sfan5 we are not restricted in any way for performance improvements just because we're no longer using irrlicht (upstream) 18:49 sfan5 I don't understand this argument 18:50 user2_ does 'moving away from irrlicht' mean 'no more plain GUIs?' 18:50 user2_ if so, :D 18:52 erle sfan5 if you were using irrlicht, you could use irrlicht-specific code without changing it, that's all. 18:55 erle Desour with 5.10 and mineclonia (idk what version), looking at a complex landscape i increased view range until i got like 20 fps. i enabled mipmaps and rejoined that exact scene, i got 22fps. i verified it has no effect when the shown stuff is all close, i.e. in piranesi, as few rooms are big enough mipmaps are used. 18:56 erle idk if that can be generalized, but 10% fps more ore less is not nothing, given that if these mipmaps were actually scaled correctly there would be little loss of fidelity 18:57 erle in any case, as almost all performance things, you only notice them when you are right at the edge of playable/stuttering 19:01 Desour erle: did you also try rejoining with mipmap disabled, to rule out more mapblocks being loaded the first time due to rotating the camera or slight movement? 19:02 Desour but interesting that there apparently is a small difference for you :eyes: 19:02 erle Desour i did actually move the first and second times and waited until the fps settled 19:02 erle Desour what is interesting about it? was it unexpected somehow? 19:04 Desour it's interesting to have this datapoint 19:05 Desour I didn't expect one way or the other. on new machines I would be surprised though 19:05 erle this is a machine from 2018. 19:05 erle oh wait no, hmm 19:05 erle from 2021 actually 19:05 erle new enough? 19:06 Desour that's newer than my machine 19:06 user2_ my RPi5 is from 2023, but has specs from 2010 19:06 Desour erle: so what gpu and cpu did you use? 19:06 user2_ more like ~2014 19:06 erle Desour imx8mq with vivante (7000?) GPU 19:07 erle it has like 4 aarch64 CPUs 19:08 user2_ muy RPi5 has a 4-core ARM Cortex-A76 @2.4 GHZ and 8GB of LP-DDR4 RAM 19:08 erle ironically, the GPU driver is a bit broken right now (i am running debian unstable on it and i finally know what “unstable” means) 19:08 user2_ *my 19:08 erle but it only affects non-minetest 19:10 sfan5 comparing with "normal" x86 machines that's probably more like 2012-level of performance 19:10 sfan5 minus a few special usecases the vendor cared about 19:12 erle well, it's one of the things that can do opengl es 3.x (allegedly), but desktop opengl 1.x is noticeably faster for some workloads (e.g. minetest/luanti) 19:13 Desour erle: what does glxinfo -B (and/or eglinfo and vulkaninfo) say? 19:13 erle but in fact, i can run circles around it using a thinkpad T60 or R60 (from 2007) that has been upgraded with an SSD 19:13 MinetestBot 02[git] 04y5nw -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Add missing IsWritable checks (#16504) 132eded3f https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/2eded3f078aa0924aeafe8607b3ac0d2e89f2dfb (152025-09-21T19:12:42Z) 19:13 erle at least for minetest/luanti and until 5.10 (because with shaders the performance drops there as well) 19:15 erle Desour i'll check. why do you want to know? 19:15 Desour erle: device name (you werent sure about the 7000). and maybe also supported gl and vulkan versions 19:19 erle Desour it's vivante GC7000 rev 6214. it claims to do ogl 2.1 and ogles 2.0. so while nominally better than a 20 year old intel GPU, it doesn't actually outperform them for desktop opengl though. 19:20 sfan5 https://www.nxp.com/products/processors-and-microcontrollers/arm-processors/i-mx-applications-processors/i-mx-8-applications-processors:IMX8-SERIES in case anyone was wondering what NXP thinks you should use these for 19:20 sfan5 >Infotainment and In-Vehicle Experience 19:20 erle the answer is probably “in-flight entertainment systems” 19:20 erle hey, i was close! 19:20 erle xD 19:21 erle yeah, the bizarre choice of GPU means i *have* to use wayland 19:21 luatic erle: my laptop is from about 2020, maybe 2019 i think, mid range, pretty average (for german standards) really i think, and runs much more decently 19:21 erle because the vendor only supports that 19:21 user2_ i found that <=5.4.1 REQUIRE x11 to run in client mode- 19:21 luatic (i've got a ryzen 5 3500u) 19:22 luatic well i have upgraded my RAM at some point, but that's mostly irrelevant for luanti, i did that for other reasons 19:22 sfan5 luatic: you have to remember that erle doesn't have a conventional laptop but essentially embedded hardware (think: older RPIs) in a laptop shell 19:22 user2_ i have a modern RPi :P 19:23 erle i am pretty sure you *can* actually have the MNT reform with an rpi in it, one moment 19:23 erle yeah lol https://shop.mntre.com/products/mnt-reform-cm4-processor-module-adapter 19:25 erle i think when “conventional laptop” stopped meaning “any x86/x64 thinkpad that can run debian and has enough performance to watch youtube videos” i stopped having a conventional laptop ;) 19:26 user2_ my 'laptop' is a potato x86 (not x86_64) that runs debian 12 19:26 user2_ it's technically i686 19:26 erle i think you have to have i686 nowadays otherwise a lot of stuff simply won't run 19:27 erle i am writing you from, one moment 19:27 user2_ pretty much every piece of software on this i had to compile myself 19:27 erle Model name: Genuine Intel(R) CPU T2400 @ 1.83GHz 19:27 erle user2_ why? gentoo user? 19:28 user2_ no, i use debian 19:28 user2_ mostly because the APT packages were out of date/non-existant 19:28 erle for debian 12? 19:28 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Sokomine -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Add client-side logging of chat messages (#14289) 13afd681d https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/afd681d013720276aaa6307b8ff67d0afc6471b9 (152025-09-21T19:27:42Z) 19:29 erle that should be still supported for a while now 19:29 erle OH LOL 19:29 erle FINALLY 19:29 erle client-side logging of chat was one of the reasons i told people to use a non-standard client 19:29 user2_ the package for minetest on debian 12 is minetest 5.6.1 ;-; 19:30 luatic yeah forget about that 19:30 user2_ debian 13 has 5.10 19:30 erle classic distribution thing 19:31 user2_ and it's still called a 'multiplayer infinite-world sandbox game' why not a game engine >:-((( 19:31 mrcheese lol still kinda a game 19:31 user2_ not without at least MTG 19:31 erle at least debian is faster than many other distributions. arch linux somehow successfully convinced its users that it has bleeding edge software, but in reality 2 out of 2 packages where i was upstream it took a LOT of time to get it right. 19:32 user2_ debian 11 has... 5.3.0 or 5.4.0 iirc 19:32 erle it has 5.3 19:32 mrcheese ;-; 19:33 erle in one case the arch package used a build script that was so wrong that i was able to alter the upstream package so that now the README on arch (but not another platform) simply is a re-telling about how the maintainer did not answer to my emails about description, dependencies, and build scripts being wrong for a year 19:33 user2_ wasnt 5.3 the one with RCE exploits- 19:33 erle tell me more 19:33 mrcheese O_O 19:33 erle it may have been the version where you could inject code into books 19:34 mrcheese wow- 19:34 erle the guilty people here in this channel know who they are 19:34 mrcheese atleast its not the server executing code on the CLIENT 19:34 erle client-sent SSM + server-sent CSM would be perfect balance 19:34 erle just have both :P 19:34 user2_ no, it was 5.1.1 19:35 erle maybe you are talking about a different RCE than i did 19:35 erle explain? 19:35 [MatrxMT] https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/security/advisories/GHSA-7q63-4fq2-hqcr I suppose? 19:36 [MatrxMT] Given the implementation of core.deserialize and the serialization format it's not particularly surprising that it should not be used for user input 19:36 MTDiscord for lots of reasons, should just never use core.(de)serialize 19:37 erle if only someone had suggested to everyone to read LANGSEC, especially the “seven turrets of babel” paper! 19:38 erle fun fact: unless i am mistaken, it is impossible to statically verify gltf json using json schema. make of that what you will :) 19:39 luatic yeah no surprise if a file format is potent then regex / cfg doesn't suffice for validation..? 19:39 luatic even at a type level 19:40 luatic i mean quite obviously something like "the scene graph is free of cycles" can't be encoded in json schema 19:40 luatic nevertheless i am very confident in tiniergltf + CGLTFMeshFileLoader 19:40 luatic you should have seen tinygltf 20:06 erle luatic no actually it is a surprise. 20:07 erle luatic the things that i have seen that are not easy to validate are entirely due to the choice of data structures. 20:09 erle luatic as an example: imagine you have an iot device list returned by an API, in JSON. assume each device has administrative data (e.g. who owns it, last maintenance date) and sensor data (e.g. temperature, humidity). 20:10 erle luatic there exist two trivial ways to serialize this info. either as a list of devices that each have two sublists for admin and sensor data. or as a list of admin and sensor data that each contain entries for each device. the first thing can be easily validated using JSON schema. the second can not. 20:14 erle luatic i have an even simpler example that i often use to teach people how important it is to choose the right serialization. if you have a timespan, you can save it as two timestamps. however, then you have to calculate in your validator if the end is before the start. alternatively, you can use the start and and offset, which is WAY easier to validate (offset must be positive). 20:21 MinetestBot 02[git] 04lhofhansl -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Monoblocks: optimize blocks that contain a single type of node (#16293) 1308b7870 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/08b7870c797909e934281679b6c064018fe9f07a (152025-09-21T20:19:30Z) 20:26 erle luatic the important insight here is of course that this can only go one way, you can only add computing power needs by designing a format badly. once you represent something that does not need context-sensitivity using something that is context-sensitive (e.g. an uncompressed bitmap vs RLE-encoded bitmap), you suddenly need a lot more computing power for validation, forever. 20:27 erle RLE is not bad design though, i just chose it because it is obvious that it represents the same information as uncompressed bitmaps. 20:27 erle while being context-sensitive, so a decoder suddenly needs more bounds checks etc. pp. 20:29 user2_ time to update my client- 20:29 erle ‘quite obviously something like "the scene graph is free of cycles" can't be encoded in json schema” – it is quite possible to design data structures that do not allow for cycles by not allowing references, or only allowing them to go one way. 20:29 erle (i.e. only go backwards, only go forwards, only go to a higher level, only access a definition …) 20:33 user2_ turns out accidentally typing 'make -j44' instead of 'make -j4' makes your PC unhappy- 20:36 MTDiscord why end all your messages in "-" 20:36 user2_ why not- 20:37 user2_ i could end them in... 20:37 identity or in… 20:38 user2_ or i could end them in\n 20:43 mrcheese :P 20:44 mrcheese or end them in_ 20:46 user2_ or end them in the windows newline, which is iirc \r\n 20:46 user2_ or \n\r 20:46 user2_ idk 20:47 SwissalpS better than ending all with 💩 :p 20:48 user2_ that just renders as a square for me- i think it's my client 20:49 identity that is a shit ending to be honest 20:51 user2_ we should all use \n 20:55 SwissalpS exactly identity :D 20:55 user2_ windows and unix/linux hate each other enough to not use the same line endings 21:00 MTDiscord I think you might be onto something. 21:00 MTDiscord Not if you have enough cores. 21:01 erle user2_ install gnu unifont 21:02 erle user2_ then you can see shit emoji here: 💩 21:02 user2_ from where do i install it? 21:02 user2_ is it an APT package? 21:02 identity from your distro's package manager, something like “font-gnu-unifont” 21:04 user2_ it's simply called 'unifont' 21:05 erle user2_ afterwards, do “fc-cache -fv” 21:05 erle and restart affected applications 21:05 erle you should have simple 16 pixel high monochrome emojis in all applications then 21:05 user2_ :D 21:06 user2_ "fc-cache: succeeded" 21:06 erle user2_ you have to install ttf-unifont though 21:06 erle user2_ otherwise you only get unifont in .hex format, which is understood by the unifont toolchain and … my unicode_text mod :P 21:07 user2_ i see it- is that a good thing? :P 21:07 erle wdym? the .hex format is human-readable, but your applications will want TTF files i guess 21:08 user2_ nvm 21:08 user2_ i'l remove it if any problems arise 21:08 identity you probably want a better font than unifont, though… 21:09 Helenah user2_: https://ctrl-c.club/~helenah/story.html 21:10 user2_ err- X 21:10 user2_ D 21:11 erle identity depends on what you mean with “better”. unifont is the only font i know that delivers clearly distinguishable monochrome emoji. it is also relatively small, a few MB. other icon fonts exist, but they are sometimes tens or hundreds of MB and do not actually have all characters. 21:12 user2_ yeah- and we have ASCII emojis \_('_')_/ 21:12 erle i think the only stuff that unifont is lacking is a) some egyptian hieroglyphs, like the “long penis” one b) emoji combinations/variants 21:12 user2_ yeah we definitely need that one- 21:12 identity unifont has “all the characters” but nobody said they were any good nor that they display correctly 21:14 identity i can forgive the first one, but saying that your font has “full basic multilingual plane coverage” while most languages simply do not display anything close to correct is dishonest 21:15 Helenah I don't think user2_ read the story... 8========D 21:15 user2_ i don't really care what font i use- as long as basic text emojis work, i'm fine... 21:15 Helenah Like the poop emoji? :3 21:16 Helenah It looks like a cow dung to me. 21:37 erle identity i think if the stuff appears close to correct is a question of the font engine really. like, unicode_text can not do arabic letter shaping, because i never found someone who a) was able to read/write arabic b) willing to assist me 21:37 erle identity but yeah, i know about the difficulties. i have unifont set as default font for all my computers. 21:38 erle stuff like a transgender flag renders decomposed as its parts 21:43 Helenah erle: Nancy Mace :3 21:47 erle Helenah what? 21:48 Helenah erle: She's a mace against transgender women. 21:48 Helenah She negs on about rape and transgender women. 21:48 Helenah *nags 21:48 Helenah I wish someone would stick a sock in it to be honest. 21:48 erle Helenah well i think “look what that bigot said” is not exactly nice news ._. 21:52 Helenah She keeps banging on about having been raped when she was younger, goes on about how it can take 25 years for a woman to come forward to say they been raped, because when they do, they're told they're bullshitting about it, and seems to group transgender women as men trying to take advantage of woman rights, and rape by predatory men, it seems to make me question "Have you actually been raped? 21:52 Helenah Because you sure are obsessed with saying you are while claiming a 0.5% minority of the woman population are men and dangerous to women.", it really does make me question if it's true. 21:52 Helenah erle: Yeah 21:52 Helenah rofl 21:53 erle Helenah the only good thing this mood-destroying paragraph did is remind me to take my estrogen 21:53 Helenah If it is true, I think she needs help, shouldn't be that obsessed about it. 21:54 Helenah erle: OH wait... 21:54 Helenah How insensitive of me, you're transgender? SHIT, look... 21:54 Helenah I'm sorry, I should've known better! 21:55 erle apart from that, i just think “look what that asshole did online” is generally not something to dwell on 21:55 erle or offline, so to say 21:55 * mrcheese watches the conversation not be related to Luanti at all :PPP 21:56 MTDiscord Unless, of course, you're looking for entertainment. 21:56 Helenah How could this what I said possibly be entertaining? It's nerve tearing if anything. 21:56 erle if your entertainment needs are met by “famous antivaxxer finally gets his shot”, i suggest https://old.reddit.com 21:56 erle Helenah entertainment in the sense of “engagement” 21:57 Helenah Ah 21:58 erle mrcheese yeah, let's get back to debating if my new hardware counts actually as “old hardware” because it does not outperform someone's thinkpad! :P 21:58 Helenah :D 22:00 erle Helenah if you ever visit berlin, i can give you obscene (mostly queer) stickers though. i have printed a bunch. the most popular is “Atomkrieg? Ja, bitte!” 22:01 erle styled after “Atomkraft? Nein, danke!”, if you know that 22:05 Helenah erle: Ja, danke 22:13 MTDiscord The Germans really want to go for round 3, huh? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) 22:14 erle nathan yeah but this time on the side of the good guys, you know atonement and all that 22:15 erle to be a bit on topic again: are there actually luanti games with interesting explosives? 22:15 erle like, not just “delete/dig nodes” 22:17 mrcheese idk 22:20 cheapie How insensitive of me, you're transgender? ← This is IRC, are you really surprised? :P 22:20 cheapie (I am too, for the record) 22:24 Helenah cheapie: More like I went through a shock because of what I said... anyway... brb 22:25 erle ｃａｔ　ｅａｒｓ　ｍｕｓｔ　ｂｅ　ｗｏｒｎ　ｂｅｙｏｎｄ　ｔｈｉｓ　ｐｏｉｎｔ 22:25 erle dear people, does anyone remember the bangers “luola” and “liero”? 22:39 luatic erle: a strictly CFG-based file format can essentially only support tree-like data structures well. 22:40 luatic to be a good model file format, gltf effectively needs a DAG when it comes to various "object references". e.g. we want to be able to reference the same primitive multiple times. we want to be able to reference the same material multiple times. and so on 22:40 rubenwardy I like Berlin 22:40 rubenwardy all the pipes remind me of a windows 95 screensaver 22:40 erle LMAO construction works indeed do have a lot of piping 22:41 MinetestBot 02[git] 04Desour -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Make proper use of override in server.h 1320f8eb9 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/20f8eb9a6c7a518771ae677c42b535966cef6337 (152025-09-21T22:40:30Z) 22:42 erle luatic you are thinking of an SVG-like data structure, right? 22:42 rubenwardy I love Romeo und Romeo in Schonberg, wish we had somewhere like that in London. Soho is just too expensive and busy for it to exist 22:43 erle Schöneberg? 22:43 luatic erle: that is similar, yes 22:43 erle there is a burger restaurant that is there and it is called “Schöne Burger” (i.e. “beautiful burgers”) 22:44 rubenwardy Sorry yes. Schöneberg 22:45 erle luatic “maybe json is the wrong format then” (which is arguably not entirely right, given that json schema itself has references) 22:45 erle luatic but also, maybe, just maybe. the idea of gltf to use indices instead of object names is something that came out of “i want this struct serialized, DO IT” 22:46 erle luatic at least to me gltf json serialization looks a lot more like “we want to expose the internal data structure mostly-verbatim” than “we want this easy to parse and validate”. what do you think? 22:48 luatic indices are a bit user-unfriendly (vs names) but implementor-friendly 🤷 22:48 erle as i said 22:49 erle i believe the issue is that implementors will always want a ransport format that could provide binary data for GPUs directly, without any “unnecessary” parsing 22:50 erle transport 22:52 luatic can't say i'm a big fan of how gltf did that bit (though you most probably want some sort of dense binary data format for vertex buffers) 23:39 Helenah Does anyone know where I can find a guide that explains the different technic machine upgrades? (The ones you place into the slots of technic machines). 23:41 Helenah Also, something seems to drain my battery boxes so they never get a charge. 23:42 Helenah Ah, it fluctuates when the day is shining, I have solar power. 23:44 erle Helenah it's not luanti, but have you ever checked out colobot? :3 23:46 Helenah No 23:46 user2_ yeah this isnt very related to luanti at all- 23:46 mrcheese yeah XD 23:47 mrcheese it almost never is lo 23:47 mrcheese l 23:48 Helenah Wait, what? 23:48 Helenah Modding discussion is allowed here, user2_ 23:48 mrcheese yes it is- 23:49 user2_ yes, but most of this isn't modding afaik- 23:49 mrcheese yea 23:49 user2_ such as how it was fonts a few hours ago- 23:50 Helenah Damnit! 23:51 Helenah The battery box's charge level fluctuates so as long as it's day time, this is annoying, I tried breaking and replacing the switch stations and everything. 23:56 Helenah OH, some energy is used by the box itself! Right, I get it now. :D 23:59 Helenah That feature seems a bit weird. :D