Time Nick Message 01:50 repetitivestrain would someone grep contentdb on my behalf for mods specifying compatibility with mineclonia that use: core.get_biome_data, core.registered_biomes, core.register_ore, or access mcl_structures? 01:50 repetitivestrain thanks in advance 01:51 repetitivestrain i need to notify all of these mods' authors to update their mods to employ mineclonia's lua replacements for these facilities if they intend for them to support the next release of the game 02:17 repetitivestrain Blockhead256: are you Obvious-Secretary635 on the reddit board? 02:17 [MatrxMT] that's me, it was automatically assigned to me when I created it through google SSO 02:17 repetitivestrain i assumed as much haha 02:18 repetitivestrain after having recognized your manner of speech 02:18 [MatrxMT] I wanted Blockhead-Luantist, but oh well 02:18 [MatrxMT] https://old.reddit.com/r/Luanti/comments/1mwf8cc/the_future_of_this_sub/na678pm/ 02:18 [MatrxMT] If I studied the Finnish right, that should actually mean "from Luanti" as well 02:19 repetitivestrain Hmm 02:19 repetitivestrain btw, how would you recommend that i set about alerting all mineclonia modders who access biome data or define structures or ores to https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=447210? 02:22 [MatrxMT] A Reddit post (I could help if you want), and probably get someone who mixes on the Discord circles to put the word out there 02:22 repetitivestrain Yeah, I'd appreciate that 02:22 repetitivestrain thanks 02:23 repetitivestrain I haven't a reddit account 02:23 [MatrxMT] I have a sole-purpose one for Luanti, and that's it 02:23 [MatrxMT] Hopefully we can get you that zipgrep on ContentDB as well, and you can post to others' issue trackers from the packages it finds (threads failing the presence of an issue tracker... not usually a qualtiy package) 02:24 repetitivestrain that would be capital too, yeah 02:29 [MatrxMT] reddit taken care of 07:56 [MatrxMT] repetitivestrain: https://content.luanti.org/zipgrep/60a286ac-e753-4dae-b9d2-b2362286c1fa/ 07:56 repetitivestrain Thank you! 07:56 [MatrxMT] I can't filter by game support, but here is registered_biomes 07:57 repetitivestrain what about get_biome_data and mcl_structures? 08:01 [MatrxMT] the former is kind of rare, but we might get to it 08:01 repetitivestrain OK, thanks 08:01 [MatrxMT] I did a search for mcl_structures in `mod.conf` as well, but, .. technicaly difficulties 08:02 [MatrxMT] I shouldn't do too many of these, it's a big load I think 08:02 repetitivestrain ah, i understand 08:02 repetitivestrain how many packages exist on cdb? 08:02 [MatrxMT] I think 2706 mods were searched for your first result there 08:02 repetitivestrain if it's not too many, and there's bandwidth enough, i could attempt to download all of them and grep locally 08:03 [MatrxMT] you could use the API to filter by mineclone games too 08:03 repetitivestrain oh, good 08:03 repetitivestrain i'll try that 08:04 [MatrxMT] the zipgrep is not particularly sophisticated https://github.com/luanti-org/contentdb/blob/master/app/blueprints/zipgrep/__init__.py 15:08 [MatrxMT] one thing i noticed is that luanti 5.14 audibly (fans) stresses the computer more than minecraft on similar (or higher) complexity scenes 15:09 [MatrxMT] and i am playing online so this is more based on rendering 15:09 repetitivestrain luanti is generally much less performant than minecraft, yes 15:09 cheapie If you're able to, try testing with sfan5's array textures PR and see how that changes for oyu 15:09 cheapie you* 15:10 [MatrxMT] mesh nodes are particularly bad for performance 15:10 [MatrxMT] i don't see any mesh nodes in the area (ctf mtg) 15:10 [MatrxMT] ctf is a cousin of MTG.. close enough 15:10 MTDiscord repetitivestrain: was that actually tested, in my experience luanti was faster i think 15:11 [MatrxMT] luanti is faster on lower end devices 15:11 MTDiscord why? 15:11 [MatrxMT] doesn't use threads as much as it could 15:11 [MatrxMT] Luanti on MTG plays better than stock Minecraft, but.. you know.. there's not much happening in MTG 15:11 MTDiscord if its not able to use all of the power of a high end device then its a bug 15:12 repetitivestrain et086: i'm curious where that was tested and with what settings, as minecraft's are generally much more demanding than minetest's 15:12 MTDiscord Blockhead256: im thinking specifically rendering 15:12 [MatrxMT] et086: It's pretty simple why it's like this. Mojang has millions of dollars of budget and Luanti has near zero budget, for similarly aged games 15:12 [MatrxMT] also see this pr: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16574 15:12 [MatrxMT] hopefully it gets merged 15:12 [MatrxMT] MOjang literally have their own rendering library for Java 15:12 repetitivestrain Blaze3d and minecraft's rendering code is actually not well engineered 15:13 repetitivestrain in software respects 15:13 sfan5 i think at this point the "luanti is more suited for lower end hardware" fact that keeps being repeated is no longer true 15:13 repetitivestrain what it does correctly is that the render section culler is much better than luanti's 15:13 [MatrxMT] and yet they overcame the decline in performance that happened after it exited beta but before current day minecraft 15:13 sfan5 people were saying this back in the 0.4.x days 15:13 cheapie sfan5: I tried Minecraft on some mediocre hardware once, it was a slideshow even with nothing going on 15:14 repetitivestrain and it performs texture atlasing and simpler distance-based translucency sorting, so that rendering each section needn't issue drawcalls to switch materials dozens of times per frame 15:14 [MatrxMT] repetitivestrain: given Luanti has cubic chunks, is it as easy to make the culler performant? 15:15 repetitivestrain Minecraft's render sections are also 16x16x16 cubes, just as ours are 15:15 repetitivestrain https://tomcc.github.io/2014/08/31/visibility-1.html 15:16 repetitivestrain this is a broad description of minecraft's culler written by a mojang engineer, although the algorithm has been altered slightly since it was posted 15:17 repetitivestrain cheapie: if minecraft was a slideshow, your machine either didn't support enough memory or threads for the jvm to operate at optimum performance, or you enabled more advanced settings in minecraft than you did in luanti 15:19 cheapie repetitivestrain: I did say mediocre hardware, which probably implies the former 15:20 repetitivestrain minecraft is one of those abysmal java programs which allocate hundreds of megabytes of garbage in temporary objects every second, and a new array whenever a vertex is appended to a vertexbuffer, and use java streams in hot rendering execution paths, or a BlockPos is moved, but the combination of the jvm's extraordinary capabilities, a better section culler, and texture atlasing enable it to run circles around luanti at the moment 15:20 repetitivestrain cheapie: you shouldn't run java where java wasn't meant to run 15:21 [MatrxMT] oracle would gladly tell you you can run java even on embedded devices.. 15:21 repetitivestrain Oracle's lying through their teeth as is their wont 15:22 repetitivestrain the jvm's performance is simply extraordinary, even in the presence of code that would induce revulsion in a c or c++ programmer 15:23 repetitivestrain but for this performance you sacrifice memory and threads 15:23 repetitivestrain and if you can't provide this tribute, it'll fail you 15:24 [MatrxMT] I can only think of two games worse for memory, BeamNG.drive and VRChat, and in those it's due to UGC 15:24 [MatrxMT] actually I won't say UGC for BeamNG, because apparently their new limousine scenario eats my 32 GB of RAM.. still not sure if memory leak or just too much memory 15:25 [MatrxMT] birdlover32767: is there any reduction in performance compared to 5.13? 15:25 [MatrxMT] doesn't feel like it 15:25 [MatrxMT] not any faster or slower 15:25 [MatrxMT] that's the main thing. The devs are aware that the performance could definitely be improved 15:27 sfan5 we are aware of many things :) 15:27 sfan5 whether they change is a different question 15:28 [MatrxMT] yes, now, if only each time something were mentioned, some unknown mechanism just gave us free progress on it... 15:29 [MatrxMT] I'm glad to have gotten gltf together, even with teething problems 15:29 [MatrxMT] *not taking credit at all 15:29 [MatrxMT] LMD et al. 15:31 [MatrxMT] JoshiahWI as well, and reviewers 15:36 cheapie repetitivestrain: So if I shouldn't run Java on mediocre hardware, then that means I should run Minecraft on mediocre hardware, which means that Luanti is the better choice on said mediocre hardware, which was the whole point to begin with 15:37 [MatrxMT] b does not imply c 15:39 [MatrxMT] as much as I want there to be a voxel game option for low end hardware, and Minetest was that by de facto or de jure for a long time 15:41 [MatrxMT] yes, but players with wanting or mediocre hardware are far outnumbered by those with acceptably modern hardware 15:43 [MatrxMT] and it'd be a blind alley for luanti to pride itself upon outperforming Minecraft on moribund hardware that isn't fit for purpose to begin with, when Minecraft trounces it effortlessly on post-2018 hardware actually relevant for video gaming 15:46 [MatrxMT] > going down when under sea level costs +1 step 15:46 [MatrxMT] (Minecraft's culler) 15:46 [MatrxMT] this shows us that optimisations are often applied with specific use case context in mind. Not all games for Luanti will even have a "sea" 15:47 [MatrxMT] but, the heuristic penalty is still probably applicable relative to the camera 16:04 [MatrxMT] just for comparison here are basically the same scenes in minecraft and luanti 16:05 [MatrxMT] file screenshot_20251017_190238.png too big to download (2366726 > allowed size: 1000000) 16:05 [MatrxMT] screenshot_20251017_190238.png 16:05 [MatrxMT] file 2025-10-17_19.04.15.png too big to download (2198344 > allowed size: 1000000) 16:05 [MatrxMT] 2025-10-17_19.04.15.png 16:05 [MatrxMT] *facepalm* IRC can't see those 16:05 [MatrxMT] luanti noticeably jitters more when i move 16:06 [MatrxMT] use a website like imgbb or imgur or something 16:06 [MatrxMT] ... i though they were links to matrix's page or something 16:06 [MatrxMT] https://irc.luanti.org/luanti/2025-10-17 16:07 [MatrxMT] imgbb is not loading 16:07 [MatrxMT] to be honest that looks different from the URLs I have seen before that point to the poster's homeserver. But those would usually fail to load too IIRC 16:07 [MatrxMT] another option https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?t=156 16:08 [MatrxMT] here they are 16:08 [MatrxMT] https://ibb.co/4ZbzY43y 16:09 [MatrxMT] https://ibb.co/0pwfrpv7 16:10 [MatrxMT] basically the same framerate, but you say the computer fans go harder in Luanti? 16:12 [MatrxMT] yes 16:12 [MatrxMT] also, when i join a server the fans stay deactivated in minecraft but they activate in luanti 16:13 [MatrxMT] Minecraft is more able to use threads, Luanti has a load of Lua stuff happening on one thread 16:14 [MatrxMT] the system monitor shows the cpu being used more than minecraft 16:14 [MatrxMT] probably that 16:15 [MatrxMT] well, hard to say, the metric that that uses can vary. 100% of one thread or 4x25% of another, couldn't say what effect that has on temperature and fans 16:15 [MatrxMT] *numbers completely fictional 16:16 [MatrxMT] https://ibb.co/nTMspbW 16:16 [MatrxMT] the first part is of luanti, the second of minecraft 16:20 FeXoR birdlover32767: Does toggling transparency for leaves change much? 16:20 [MatrxMT] *reminder that's an option in both games* 16:21 * FeXoR likes the nearly identical terrain for the comparison by the way ;) 16:21 [MatrxMT] it's mineclonia's new map generator 16:25 [MatrxMT] after enabling opaque leaves (minecraft only has a setting for "fast" graphics but it didn't change anything) 16:25 [MatrxMT] https://ibb.co/TMH3CkXH 16:31 FeXoR That doesn't look like an extraordinary change. Thank you birdlover32767 for your effort! ;) 16:34 FeXoR From my experience Mintest CPU load changed significantly somewhere between 4.something and 5.6.something. Could run 4.x with 2.5k view range and about 80% usage on highest used core and now it's at 100% with 500 view range basically all the time. 16:35 FeXoR I'm not sure if it's related to graphics or block loading or whatever. Are there profiler statistics for the different Luanti components maybe? 16:44 sfan5 press f6 16:51 FeXoR Good hint! :p 16:55 servidorminetest How Privs all ? 16:56 servidorminetest I,m trying creat a mintest server for education 16:56 SwissalpS servidorminetest: qué querias preguntar? 16:57 SwissalpS and you want an admin to have all privs? 16:57 servidorminetest pretendo saber como atribuir os poderes todos a um utilizador Admim que será o professor para gerir os privilégisos dos alunos 16:58 servidorminetest Estou a usar um pc linux com a ajuda do chat gpt 16:58 SwissalpS The admin needs 'privs' priv to hand out privs to players 16:58 FeXoR Only draw frame and update draw list are close to 1k from the values given in ms. So I guess it graphics related. 16:58 SwissalpS servidorminetest: falas portugues? 16:59 FeXoR SwissalpS: And now - for the international Luanti community - in English, please. Oops, wrong channel x) 17:00 * SwissalpS hunches his shoulders in shame 17:00 servidorminetest Sim, falo português 17:01 servidorminetest instalei o luanti no pc linux com a ajuda do chatgpt 17:01 servidorminetest através da consola terminal do linux´ 17:03 SwissalpS -> /grant [,...] 17:04 SwissalpS normally the admin account already has the 'privs' priv if I'm not mistaken 17:04 SwissalpS log in as admin and do /grant privs 17:05 servidorminetest servidorminetest@servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ awk -F: '{print NR") user="$1, "privs="$3, "last_login="$4}' ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt 17:05 servidorminetest 1) user=Admin privs=shout,teleport,interact,home last_login=1760719267 17:05 servidorminetest 2) user=aluno2 privs=home,interact,shout,teleport last_login=1760713254 17:05 servidorminetest 3) user=jogadorteste privs=home,interact,shout,teleport last_login=1760718527 17:05 servidorminetest 4) user=teste privs=home,interact,shout,teleport last_login=1760712768 17:05 servidorminetest servidorminetest@servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ sudo systemctl stop luanti-server.service 17:05 servidorminetest [sudo] senha para servidorminetest: 17:05 servidorminetest servidorminetest@servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ cp ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt.bak 17:05 servidorminetest servidorminetest@servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ awk -F: -v OFS=":" '$1=="Admin"{$3="all"}1' \ 17:05 servidorminetest ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt > ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt.new && \ 17:05 ShadowBot servidorminetest: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. 17:05 servidorminetest mv ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt.new ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt 17:05 servidorminetest servidorminetest@servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ awk -F: '$1=="Admin"{print "Admin -> privs="$3, "last_login="$4}' ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt 17:05 servidorminetest Admin -> privs=all last_login=1760719267 17:05 servidorminetest servidorminetest@servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ sudo systemctl start luanti-server.service 17:07 FeXoR (I guess chacne the line with the admin to: privs=shout,teleport,interact,home,privs) 17:08 FeXoR *change 19:04 sfan5 yearly server reboot 19:04 Krock I was scared for 1.5 minutes