Time Nick Message 02:26 helixnebula77 is there a way to get luanti api completions with the lsp in vscode? theres a guide in the docs discussing how to do this but the luanti-api project it links has 404'd 02:26 helixnebula77 https://docs.luanti.org/for-creators/development-setup/ 02:27 MTDiscord It isnt as integrated as LSP, but there is https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=GreenXenith.minetest-tools which autocompletes using snippets 02:28 MTDiscord see https://github.com/luanti-org/docs.luanti.org/issues/291 regarding the broken link 02:30 helixnebula77 oh i see what the extension is doing now, i loaded up some code and it said 'core 02:30 MTDiscord honestly that page being named dev setup is highly misleading 02:30 MTDiscord (the LSP link is now https://git.minetest.land/andro/luanti-api) 02:30 helixnebula77 ' was udefined but when i actually type out core.* it has completions 02:30 helixnebula77 (sorry i accidentally hit enter while typing my message) 02:31 helixnebula77 i have seen some doc on how to set up emmylua in emacs! maybe i will try that 02:31 helixnebula77 unless emmylua works with vscode too 02:32 MTDiscord Pretty much everything works with vscode 02:32 MTDiscord should probably turn that more into a router page that recommends minetest-tools, alt whats in it now, luacheck (some ci), and links to dev tools for more info 02:33 MTDiscord I'd like to obsolete my extension and that LSP with official generated definitions-from-docs, but we arent at that point yet 02:34 [MatrxMT] the luanti-api on git.minetest.land is the most complete one that I know of, but it's still incomplete and subject to major changes 02:34 MTDiscord so which version or bust do we pick for that goal :juanchi_face: 02:34 helixnebula77 i see, sounds like a mess 02:34 helixnebula77 what do most mod devs do? 02:34 MTDiscord Hence why I would like to make it obsolete via generating snippets from machine-readable documentation 02:34 MTDiscord 02:35 MTDiscord er, s/snippets/definitions 02:35 MTDiscord most use minetest-tools 02:36 [MatrxMT] just search the docs 4head 02:36 MTDiscord thats where everyone starts 02:36 MTDiscord searching the docs doesnt make me type faster 02:36 MTDiscord just ai generate your code :trollface: 02:37 helixnebula77 i am absolutely not using copilot lol 02:37 MTDiscord why type faster when you can type less 02:37 user333_ don't use ai for programming... ever 02:37 MTDiscord Or do, why care? 02:37 [MatrxMT] you shouldn't be afraid to throw code out if it's bad. Triply so for AI code 02:37 MTDiscord No difference in curating AI code than human code 02:37 user333_ writing it yourself will (usually) output more efficient code 02:38 MTDiscord Bold of you to assume the intent is efficiency 02:38 MTDiscord should have skipped the ai joke, brought out the anti ai zealots as per usual 02:38 MTDiscord Some people need to achieve the "its written" part 02:38 user333_ and AI sucks at programming overall :P 02:38 MTDiscord Its better at it than a majority of folks 02:39 MTDiscord ai is a tool like any other. a poor craftsman blames his tools 02:39 MTDiscord This is like a craftsman criticizing a CNC router. Your usecase is not the point. 02:39 [MatrxMT] `core = minetest` :))) 02:39 helixnebula77 wsor4035: when you say most use minetest-tools, this is what came up on google and i dont think this is correct? https://github.com/orgs/minetest-tools/repositories 02:39 MTDiscord minetest-tools is the extension I linked earlier that you are already using 02:39 MTDiscord you where linked it previously: https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=GreenXenith.minetest-tools 02:39 helixnebula77 oh the vscode one! 02:40 helixnebula77 okay i think ive got this figured out as best as it can be 02:40 helixnebula77 thanks 02:41 MTDiscord in addition to ai being a tool, its also a tech advance. we dont have factories where everything is built by hand anymore 02:41 MTDiscord Eventually ill add other actually useful things to that extension, like Luanti as a debugger, other config file parsers, CDB integration, formspec editor, nodebox editor ... some year 02:41 MTDiscord in 2k38? 😛 02:41 MTDiscord Sounds good to me 02:42 MTDiscord gonna have to send you back to 1970 02:42 user333_ the equivelant of 0 on unix-based systems? 02:42 user333_ (year 0) 02:44 MTDiscord i wouldnt limit it to just unix as programming langauges and applications also assume that 02:45 user333_ well it's most known for being 0 on unix-based systems... 02:45 MTDiscord hmm, so windows does since 1601, .net uses 1 ad, dos apparently? used to use 1980 for some reason 02:45 user333_ anyway, here's my favorite excuse for why ai code is bad: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16447 02:45 MTDiscord whatever, time is evil 02:46 user333_ (i'm not saying ALL ai code is bad though) 02:46 [MatrxMT] it's definitely originated in UNIX and codified in POSIX, even if it gets used other places 02:46 MTDiscord fair enough 02:47 user333_ what about other OSes, like iOS (not macOS as it's too similar to unix and android as it's too similar to unix as well) 02:48 [MatrxMT] iphoneOS iPadOS and macOS are all in the Darwin family so I expect they all use the same 02:49 MTDiscord i wanna give an ai response just to troll 02:49 user333_ -_- 02:49 user333_ related question, is there any movement towards iOS support for luanti? 02:49 MTDiscord https://support.apple.com/guide/shortcuts/format-date-timestamps-apdfb33b0e17/ios but here is an actualy answer (uses unix epoch) 02:50 MTDiscord see the pr 02:50 MTDiscord and/or sfence. same thing really 02:50 [MatrxMT] the usual wisdom on iOS is that apple wouldn't allow it onto the app store anyway because they hate free software licences 02:50 user333_ huh, i though iOS was apple's own OS that was completely independant from unix 02:51 user333_ looks like some unix slipped in 02:51 MTDiscord Both iOS and MacOS are built on Darwin which is a Unix-like 02:51 user333_ apple: "no you can't put FOSS stuff on our app store because we hate FOSS for some reason" 02:51 MTDiscord more accurately bsd based 02:52 [MatrxMT] they didn't start from nothing, the same way Android didn't start from nothing but started from Linux. But yeah, Macs have a mongrel filesystem that has the old UNIX paths on / (root filesystem) but also its own, Titlecased directrories 02:52 MTDiscord thought they ditched that and are on APFS now 02:53 user333_ i personally use debian/ubuntu linux and sometimes windows 11 so i have nearly no knowlege of how apple stuff works 02:53 MTDiscord Apple does, in fact, allow FOSS apps. Usually the only issue is GPL and certain derivatives 02:53 [MatrxMT] apple doesn't want you to know this, but you can run a hackintosh on your x86 PC for free in a VM. It doesn't run arm, but I have actually used it to produce apple silicon valid programs with a linker or something like that (after paying for a cloud mac mini once to make it the first time) 02:53 MTDiscord pretty much the only thing i dont use on the regular is bsd (directly, yes a lot of infra is on bsds) 02:54 user333_ someone make luanti builable for iOS, pretend it's closed-source, and get it on their app store :) 02:54 MTDiscord thats essentially multicraft 02:54 MTDiscord Wouldnt need to pretend, since Apple allows FOSS apps 02:54 [MatrxMT] yeah there's some confusion about it to me, because Luanti is LGPL, but apple hating GPL was always cited.. doesn't sound quite correct. Maybe it's that source availability of apple's own libraries is needed? Doesn't sound right either 02:55 MTDiscord Part of it is store fees 02:55 MTDiscord Its $100 for a developer license or something 02:55 user333_ ;-; 02:55 MTDiscord Which isnt all that much, honestly, but still a weird barrier to entry 02:55 MTDiscord which as a nonprofit you can get waved 02:55 [MatrxMT] they still do that? you can get android ones for free these days most of the time 02:55 MTDiscord Oh, cool. Win for us then 02:55 MTDiscord androids like $25 or something 02:56 MTDiscord tho android is one time vs apples yearly 02:56 MTDiscord you would think for the cash they rake in they could make xcode less shit 02:56 [MatrxMT] oh here it is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38966559 they won't comply with LGPL 02:57 MTDiscord Ah, yes, Xcode. The other barrier to entry. 02:57 user333_ or at least support running other OSes on their hardware like literally every other PC manufacturer 02:57 MTDiscord On older mac hardware you can run any OS you want 02:58 [MatrxMT] you can install Luanti via F-droid or you own built APK. No such luck unless you jailbreak iOS 02:58 user333_ older macs at least, can run other OSes 02:58 MTDiscord On newer Macs you can run ARM OSes (see Asahi Linux) 02:58 [MatrxMT] we should get Luanti on Cydia lul 02:59 user333_ yea i saw that the other day when i was looking for linux ISOs to add to my collection 02:59 user333_ i have like 26 different distros 02:59 MTDiscord Worth noting that VLC is LGPL and available on iOS, so there is absolutely a way to make it work 03:00 user333_ huh! 03:00 MTDiscord And VLC started out as GPL, no less 03:00 user333_ or provide a guide on how to jailbreak your device and install android 03:01 MTDiscord Thats not really how it works 03:01 user333_ sadly 03:01 MTDiscord https://stackoverflow.com/a/39438539 03:01 [MatrxMT] no you're not putting android on an iPhone/Pad, you're at best getting a few jailbroken app stores working and the ability to load IPAs 03:03 MTDiscord tl;dr the only thing really stopping us from putting Luanti on the appstore is our available time and energy 03:03 MTDiscord ....its not? https://code.videolan.org/videolan/vlc-ios/-/blob/master/COPYING?ref_type=heads 03:04 [MatrxMT] thank you gitlab for the banner that says AGPL lel 03:04 MTDiscord Fine, the VLC core is LGPL 03:04 user333_ Blockhead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0_Aou3eZl8 03:04 MTDiscord Even better that the iOS app is GPL, now no one has any excuse 03:04 MTDiscord was just about to follow up with that 03:04 [MatrxMT] LGPL for libraries seems to be ok on iOS 03:04 [MatrxMT] so is it okay for VLC because of MPL? 03:05 MTDiscord its ok because the wrapper is mpl and lib lgpl 03:05 MTDiscord so technically you would need to license and code linking bullshit for ios 03:05 MTDiscord well, to be fair its ios, so bullshit was implied 03:05 MTDiscord Regardless, the stackoverflow answer explains why LGPL is just as acceptable 03:07 [MatrxMT] I think ultimately the real reason is nobody wants to pony up for an app store license (or get it waived, or for it to only work on jailbreaks) and there's just not that many apple people in the community 03:07 MTDiscord not true 03:07 MTDiscord sfence already pays for one (or has it waved) 03:08 MTDiscord its how the macos binaries are signed 03:08 MTDiscord That stackoverflow answer also explains why jailbreaks arent necessary either 03:08 user333_ as long as linux support never ends, i'm fine 03:09 MTDiscord Alright guys, time to end Linux support. Its been a good run. Just cant do it any more. 03:09 user333_ NOO 03:09 user333_ o7 luanti community 03:10 [MatrxMT] I may be misremembering, but doesn't the free apple ID signing only last a week or so? 03:10 [MatrxMT] good enough for developers I guess, then we have signing that lasts for the app store release anyway 03:11 MTDiscord Maybe so. But side-loading is also a mandatory feature for European models now, no? 03:11 user333_ don't ask me, i'm in north america \_('_')_/ 03:12 user333_ southeast canada, to be precise 03:12 MTDiscord Eh 03:12 [MatrxMT] we'll have to wait and see for both Android and iOS to be honest. Android trying to get everything signed by them, and I haven't heard of iOS actually making progress on sideloading 03:13 user333_ android wants ppl to only install from the play store, you can still install from APKs atm though 03:13 MTDiscord iirc japen is forcing the other app stores thing as well now 03:13 MTDiscord maybe if enough countries tell apple to take a hike they will finally cave 03:14 user333_ ah yes, japen, my favorite country 03:14 [MatrxMT] :\ just a bit rude tbh 03:15 MTDiscord those not using a handy capped platform see edits 03:15 user333_ irc ftw... 03:15 MTDiscord (yes matrix doesnt see them here, but thats because irc acts as a 1990s blocking layer) 03:15 [MatrxMT] wait Matrix isn--- nah okay 03:16 user333_ doesn''t help i'm using an IRC client that hasnt been updated since like 2013 03:16 user333_ still works though 03:16 MTDiscord matrix is discord at home, which personally makes me hate it more than irc sometimes. irc is stuck in the 90s, but at least it works. matrix can drive you insane 03:17 MTDiscord If you think of each IRC network like a server, and each channel as a server channel, and then tack generated profile pictures to everyone, you've basically got poor mans matrix/discord/slack/whatever 03:17 MTDiscord Which is a terrible analogy because networks usually have thousands of channels 03:17 MTDiscord thats stretching poor mans quite a bit 03:17 MTDiscord for various reasons 03:18 user333_ i wrote my own IRC client/server in python earlier this year 03:18 MTDiscord I hope you recover 03:18 user333_ i was lazy and didnt handle PMs properly tho.. 03:19 MTDiscord i need to bite the bullet and use cinny for a while as my main matrix client instead of flirting with it 03:19 [MatrxMT] re: SFENCE: so they have a signing key, probably use a Mac. But it still sounds like we have no talent/effort for the port itself 03:19 MTDiscord ....they made the ios pr 03:19 MTDiscord unless your insulting them and im missing it 03:20 [MatrxMT] .. I need to get better informed 03:20 MTDiscord yeah 03:20 [MatrxMT] https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/15451 yeah? 03:20 MTDiscord I feel like all of your statements in the last half hour have been disproven by links given to you prior to your statements 03:20 MTDiscord yes 03:20 [MatrxMT] yeah looks like it 03:21 MTDiscord bad day blockhead? 03:21 MTDiscord when you install cinny, ill install it too, wsor 03:21 MTDiscord https://tenor.com/view/doubt-press-x-la-noire-meme-x-button-gif-19259237 03:21 [MatrxMT] nah I'm not having a bad day I'm getting my misconceptions corrected 03:21 MTDiscord I am serious, matrix is annoying as hell 03:21 MTDiscord element 03:21 MTDiscord you know what I mean 03:21 MTDiscord to be fair, there is a public instance, so not that hard to switch 03:22 MTDiscord Blockhead: I think the point was more about all the answers being in front of you already ;p 03:22 MTDiscord I appreciate that Cinny has a yellow dark theme 03:22 [MatrxMT] yes, I did need to slow down and read a bit. But I will say I had no idea about the PR, so that wasn't "prior" 03:23 MTDiscord Oh, my bad, I thought it had been linked. Apologies. 03:23 user333_ new challenge: make 5.15 have support for windows 95 03:24 MTDiscord hmm, lets go see if the featured clients list has changed element: shit fluffy chat (isnt this a fork of element? could be wrong) cinny: need to try with it element x, way to limited v2 element, but in purgatory for outside business use nheko: desktop, cool i guess? but looking for web personally 03:24 MTDiscord Ew, nheko looks awful 03:24 MTDiscord SchildiChat is the fork of element, not fluffy chat 03:25 MTDiscord referenced, not linked iirc 03:25 user333_ or pick a nice IRC client and join me 03:25 MTDiscord i have the lounge already, and im good 03:25 MTDiscord fluffychat and nheko are messenger skins for matrix ... messengers were not built for IM servers 03:25 wsor4035 user333_: nah 03:25 user333_ :c 03:26 MTDiscord tf does this mean? 03:26 MTDiscord matrix is the protocool 03:26 MTDiscord The back and forth text bubble style 03:26 MTDiscord That is for one-on-one conversation, massive group messaging. 03:26 MTDiscord not* 03:27 MTDiscord ah 03:27 MTDiscord (Just because group texts exist doesnt make them good) 03:27 [MatrxMT] missed the "see the pr".. was only there briefly. Chats! It's not a face-to-face conversation, but we so often treat it that way.. like it has no scrollback almost 03:29 MTDiscord looks like nheko has 2 variants for chat, to be fair 03:29 MTDiscord its a pinned tab now 03:29 MTDiscord https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1440182048663932948/image.png?ex=691d398d&is=691be80d&hm=54a72d14e9a965d80d71e61426681ca03ea810aaa4103c23ee671cc060f6dc2a& 03:29 MTDiscord But nheko still looks way too dense for no reason 03:29 MTDiscord Id pick fluffychat over nheko if I had to. Fluffychat's site is also weirdly polished 03:30 MTDiscord Wait does cinny not have a desktop client? 03:30 MTDiscord Oh good it does 03:31 MTDiscord just pooly advertized 03:31 MTDiscord pwa or element wrapper iirc? 03:31 MTDiscord not element 03:31 MTDiscord sorry, tauri 03:31 MTDiscord electron-- wait really, tauri? 03:31 MTDiscord Thats dope if so 03:31 MTDiscord https://github.com/cinnyapp/cinny-desktop 03:34 MTDiscord ok, i verified my cinny instances but i cant decrypt old messages, tf? 04:57 MTDiscord Let it be known: I tried Cinny with wsor. It is currently lacking tray minimization and ctrl+v pasting, and encrypted history isnt working, so its a no-op for me right now personally 04:57 MTDiscord But no one can say I didnt try it when he did 05:03 MTDiscord (encrypted history is more a matrix being fucked thing than cinny issue) 11:02 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Implement Vsync for SDL device (#16683) 1337c3c89 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/37c3c89b0322c516adbd654b937de576d690bb38 (152025-11-18T11:00:46Z) 11:02 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Reapply "Prefer GL3 driver over legacy GL driver" 13bf01cdf https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/bf01cdf823ea882deeb4a7b0577bfecbb6c20bbd (152025-11-18T11:01:08Z) 17:52 sfan5 very interesting how the minetest-c55 0.3 light curve wasn't dark at all 17:52 sfan5 compared to current 17:54 ireallyhateirc top 10 luanti facts the government doesn't want you to know 18:02 mrcheese lol 18:10 sfan5 https://0x0.st/Kft9.png negative torch or something idk 19:02 MTDiscord interesting 20:15 mrcheese lol "negative lighting..." 20:15 MTDiscord I actually kind of like the idea 20:18 mrcheese yea lol 20:18 MTDiscord what if being in light killed you and you needed to stay in the darkness xD 20:19 mrcheese XDDD 20:19 mrcheese would make a great stealth game 20:19 mrcheese (totally not related to the game jam... :P)