Time Nick Message 12:07 calculon DrBanner: asuna ores are the same as mtg plus maybe a few more defined by mods 12:07 calculon so dig as deep as you can, around -1000 should be fine 13:48 MinetestBot 02[git] 04danielalanbates -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Fix vendored Lua build trying to compile .h files (#16961) 13547f710 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/547f7106e1ae4b695f1e4b56499b075b0044dc40 (152026-02-21T13:47:35Z) 13:48 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sertonix -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Fix overflow in getMemorySizeMB on 32-bit arches 136e55d1e https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/6e55d1e67260ac69db3cb5bba27b18bd8687ab48 (152026-02-21T13:48:16Z) 13:48 ireallyhateirc it begins 13:49 ireallyhateirc watch PRs migrate to the other side 13:54 [MatrxMT] it stops 14:13 ireallyhateirc one day I'll make a rats HD mod 14:13 ireallyhateirc with a hand-crafted 3D rat 15:14 ireallyhateirc mom, can we have minetest? 15:14 ireallyhateirc but we have minetest at home 15:14 ireallyhateirc minetest at home: http://minetest.org/ 15:26 MTDiscord mm, probably should obscure the link so nobody accidentally clicks on it if you're gonna mention it 15:27 ireallyhateirc you could register a trademark or something 15:27 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Prefer 'int' for transferring texture layer index in shader 1361f3b2e https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/61f3b2edd1febb72b63f94f8248f99e01085349a (152026-02-21T15:26:59Z) 15:27 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Don't use deprecated 'varying' in GLSL 1.5 13bdac895 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/bdac895f4a5c84ee63905348f41e2c0605a5d25d (152026-02-21T15:26:59Z) 15:27 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Prefer 'int' for transferring texture layer index in shader (part 2) 13b373298 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/b373298027a774217a1d4abd0e6159faf13255c0 (152026-02-21T15:26:59Z) 15:27 MinetestBot 02[git] 04sfan5 -> 03luanti-org/luanti: Change type of inVertexAux to uint 13a684b53 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/a684b532897d3b95fec81089658f928ca51b0e97 (152026-02-21T15:26:59Z) 15:27 ireallyhateirc the problem is that people searching for luanti but who remember the old name will find that domain 15:28 ireallyhateirc I get it as the first search result on duckduckgo 15:28 ireallyhateirc luanti is the second result 15:30 ireallyhateirc most sane people would probably understand something's wrong with that website after reading the decadent "minetest peaked in 2015" and "Due to conflicting goals it's fading away today" 15:31 ireallyhateirc for me it's pure comedy 15:36 MTDiscord well, if you google "minetest", you get luanti as the top search result, so i think stuff is working okay 15:43 ireallyhateirc well ddg is a but dumb, yeah 15:44 ireallyhateirc in google I get it as the 4th result 15:47 ireallyhateirc interestingly the 3th result is some half-dead polish edu website of some school 15:48 ireallyhateirc I guess I could start offering paid courses that teach kids luanti modding if I don't get any other job 16:12 rubenwardy Trademark registration and enforcement would cost many thousands. And it's a name we've moved away from 16:13 MTDiscord Not familiar with the matter, but I vaguely recall that in some legislations, trademarks are "use it or lose it" 16:14 MTDiscord So we would be forced to enforce to keep the trademark, and that could harm various projects that have adopted and adapted the name 16:14 MTDiscord I believe there has been some drama around similar matters in other FOSS communities where trademarks were enforced 16:41 ireallyhateirc yeah, it's probably not worth to get a trademark on a stale name 16:43 ireallyhateirc but you could register Luanti as a trademark and make people mark their forks/websites as unofficial 16:44 ireallyhateirc then you only lose money once on trademark registration (and every 10 years?) 16:45 ireallyhateirc and then clearly misleading uses such as luanti.xyz or luanti.org would be forbidden 16:46 ireallyhateirc calling your fork "the final minetest" and saying that the project had died in 2015 is plainly misleading and malicious 16:46 ireallyhateirc after registering a trademark you don't even need to lose money on legal action 16:47 ireallyhateirc you can just send them scary mails about legal action lol 16:49 ireallyhateirc you'd need to keep the trademark lax enough not to scare people but to block clearly malicious uses 16:49 ireallyhateirc but in the long run idk if it's worth it 16:50 ireallyhateirc it could cost up to 1000 euro to register that trademark 16:52 ireallyhateirc FOSDEM pizza is probably a better use for 1000 euro 16:57 MTDiscord i wonder what [the person who shall not be named] would think about the new name lol 18:33 [MatrxMT] final luanti the real final - Copy.pptx 18:33 [MatrxMT] also, i wonder if anyone is planning to make an anticheat using sscsm 18:39 ireallyhateirc let's wait for sscsms to actually get useful APIs first 18:44 MTDiscord birdlover32767: yes 18:44 MTDiscord sscsm let you send certificates to the server, which greatly facilitates anticheat 18:44 MTDiscord will let you* 18:47 ireallyhateirc there's still the question of licensing issues which I discussed with Desour and I will remind about it later when these features actually land 18:47 Desour ireallyhateirc: are you [? 18:47 ireallyhateirc no 18:48 [MatrxMT] secretly log player data and sell it to big luanti 18:48 Desour maybe I misremember, but iirc, there was someone named [ (or ]?) in irc (iirc) who was requesting free only sscsm 18:49 ireallyhateirc TL;DR my point was that 1. some users would like to be able to exclude non-foss licenses for SSCSMs 2. luanti generally needs licensing metadata to be passed from the server to the client to stay compliant with for example CC BY-SA, etc. 18:49 [ Desour: I am not ireallyhateirc 18:50 ireallyhateirc because if you send a CC-licensed media file to the client and don't deliver the license along with it, then you're technically violating the license 18:50 Desour I have the topic on TODO (see also possible follow up prs listed in #15818) 18:50 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/15818 -- Create SSCSM skeleton and scripting by Desour 18:52 MTDiscord ireallyhateirc: imo, low priority detail. if you need to ship license info with your sscsm, put it in code comments. can be pretty compact with SPDX license identifiers. 18:53 ireallyhateirc well if the SSCSM API will be flexible enough for me to write a mod to detect and exclude non-free licenses then that's fine 18:53 Desour SSCSM will not be providable by the client 18:53 Desour (or the user, to be exact) 18:54 Desour we should probably reject non-free scripts by default. after all, software freedom is a big part of luanti 18:55 ireallyhateirc I just don't want luanti to become Web 3.0 with random proprietary blackboxes running in a freshly introduced environment 18:56 ireallyhateirc even if you do your best trying to secure it there could still be some bugs 18:56 Desour I wonder, is hosting a luanti server (or a web server, it's pretty similar) a form of publishing / sharing the content you send to the client, I mean from a law perspective? 19:00 ireallyhateirc well there's the act of copying files and sending them over network to the client, so I believe it counts? 19:00 ireallyhateirc otherwise you could stream Shrek to people for free 19:01 ireallyhateirc both the GPL and CC licenses require the license file to be either shipped or linked to the user 19:03 ireallyhateirc if your media/mods are proprietary then it's up to you to provide the license to players, but you don't have to 19:03 ireallyhateirc by default everything is All rights reserved 19:04 ireallyhateirc so technically the players don't have the right to play, which is funny but is also a gray zone - it is obviously streamed to be played 19:04 ireallyhateirc just like most websites do with JS these days 19:17 [ <+MTDiscord> sscsm let you send certificates to the server, which greatly facilitates anticheat 19:17 [ What do you mean? 19:17 [ The client cannot be trusted 19:19 ireallyhateirc well you could implement DRM and lua uglifying but then it goes against FOSS principles and can be still cracked like most proprietary games do anyway 19:20 ireallyhateirc idk if the devs want to play whac-a-mole with the community 19:20 sfan5 unless luanti ships with impractical restrictions then SSCSM will absolutely go the way of JS on the web 19:24 Desour luatic has described what he means by certificates here: https://luatic.dev/posts/2025-07-25-cheating/ 19:26 Desour ireallyhateirc: hmm. cc's definitions list as examples "reproduction, public display, public performance, distribution, dissemination, communication, or importation" (section 1 k ) so yeah, hosting a luanti server probably falls under it 19:28 sfan5 it'd be helpful if the engine had a standard way for mods to announce their presence and license (like /help) 19:29 Krock sfan5: something else to add to the .conf file -> #16964 19:29 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16964 -- Add the CDB repo & links metadata to offline package `.conf`s 19:31 Desour there's also #9395 19:31 ShadowBot https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/9395 -- Expand mod.conf with additional meta information (author, version, copyright, etc.) 19:31 Desour idk if we have an issue that covers sending licensing information alongside media (or other content) to the client 19:42 MTDiscord We tried making a "template mod" where license stuff is not only a file, but also somewhere in a Lua level information table, available via /mods. It uses this table and reads the remaining values from mod.conf There's also spdx and other projects for machine readable licenes. It would already help a lot if licenses were only in one place 19:47 MTDiscord .cdb.json is a thing 19:50 Desour @wsor: what is it? 19:50 Desour doc? 19:51 bgstack15 Desour: https://content.luanti.org/help/package_config/#cdbjson 19:51 Desour thx! 20:09 bgstack15 hm, if sscsm ever happens, Mineclonia could use it! That would be great. 20:45 MTDiscord [_: precisely, the client can not be trusted. with SSCSM, you can have clients send certificates which prove that they should have been able to do the things they did. 20:47 MTDiscord ah i see my blog post has already been linked, wonderful, thanks desour! 20:48 Desour np ^^ 21:05 MTDiscord wait isn't luanti.org the correct one? 21:09 Desour it is. luanti.org and minetest.net 21:21 MTDiscord thx wsor 🙂 That's something we will want to support as well 🙂 adds issue to template