Time Nick Message 00:37 Sokomine has someone mentionned yet that with newest update models and/or skins are broken? legs and heads look as if they're turned by 180 degree and halfway melted into the body 00:51 MTDiscord latest stable, or master? 00:53 MTDiscord if .x, that should be fixed https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15544 01:01 MTDiscord Sokomine: By newest update, do you mean 8719a81 or newer (current master)? 01:07 MTDiscord Is the server perchance running character_anim (or playeranim I suppose)? There is a bit of an unfortunate situation surrounding that. 02:41 Sokomine latest git, and yes, playeranim or so involved (your land server) 13:06 MTDiscord Sokomine: thanks, that tells me all i need to know. 14:23 [MatrxMT] Reminder today meeting 16:04 [MatrxMT] nice, pressing the merge button for #15614 on my phone soon then 16:04 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15614 -- In-game settings menu using separate Lua env by grorp 16:04 [MatrxMT] (I won't have time for the meeting) 16:05 MTDiscord if we want to start the feature freeze soon, i might also like to get #15606 in for 5.11 16:05 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15606 -- Allow overriding fonts via media files by appgurueu 17:23 MTDiscord The new VoxelManip area limit of 4096000 breaks a lot of CTF maps. Will I need to split them up into smaller schematic portions? 17:24 sfan5 open a bug, we will raise the limit 17:26 sfan5 merging #15691 soon 17:26 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15691 -- [no sq] Some fixes by sfan5 17:30 MTDiscord If there is a meeting today, I'd like core devs to select which spatial map for active entities we use so we can move on to collision performance too 18:01 [MatrxMT] Meeting time 18:01 [MatrxMT] Anyone around? 18:02 MTDiscord (yes) 18:03 MTDiscord i'm here 18:03 * Desour as well 18:03 [MatrxMT] Also pinging nrz and sfan5 18:04 cx384 I'm here too 18:05 [MatrxMT] Let's start in the meanwhile. First point: "Feature freeze time" 18:05 [MatrxMT] Two weeks and a few days to go for the next planned release. I'm scared about SDL2 18:05 [MatrxMT] merging (psst I'm not here) 18:07 SFENCE #14964 is still not merged. So we should go probably without SDL2 again. 18:07 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14964 -- SDL: Use scancodes for keybindings by y5nw 18:08 sfan5 or we should make it work 18:08 sfan5 but it will be important that there's at least a week or so, so it can get enough testing by users 18:09 sfan5 I haven't yet replied again on that PR but I think an approach that reuses EKEY_CODE is valuable, due to simplicity 18:09 [MatrxMT] So RC one week prior? 18:10 MTDiscord cc @y5nw if your around 18:12 SFENCE I am not sure if it will be enough to have only this one merged. Because of https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14964#issuecomment-2335180342 18:14 sfan5 not sure if that matters 18:14 SFENCE If we do not wnat to break controls, users are used to, we should also suport multiple key binding probably. 18:15 sfan5 waiting for a perfect solution will delay everything further 18:15 sfan5 bindings will break either way 18:15 sfan5 I don't even know where + and - are on an US keyboard, but it definitely won't be the same position on QWERTZ 18:18 MTDiscord its been two? three? releases that it has been disabled for (but iirc andoird uses it currently?) 18:22 SFENCE Is it clear from controls if something is binded to + from alpahumeric or from numeric keyboard part? 18:22 SFENCE * clean 18:23 sfan5 we should be showing "+" or "keypad +" to differ these 18:24 SFENCE yes, with it, it should be ok. 18:26 [MatrxMT] I have another PR for supporting multiple keybindings. The problem is that the controls-related PRs more or less all conflict each other 18:29 sfan5 first things first IMO, and that is the scancode PR 18:31 MTDiscord one thought regarding that, we probably shouldn't prefer scancode defaults over keycode defaults for A-Z. e.g. zoom should always be Z by default, regardless of whether i'm on a german or english layout. 18:31 MTDiscord an exception can be made for WASDQE since for these keys the physical layout matters a lot (but they also don't tend to be shuffled around a lot). 18:32 [MatrxMT] The problem is that we can't mix them because of e.g. keybinding conflicts on AZERTY 18:33 [MatrxMT] And keyboard layouts inconsistently have + or = on the unshifted state; and e.g. we still can't use "/" if it's on Shift-7 18:34 SFENCE I see, actual implementation of scancodes uses "-" and "Numepad -". I am not sure if the first one will be clear understand as it is in alphanumeric part of keyboard. 18:35 MTDiscord that's also true. tbh i'd almost be leaning towards basing defaults on keycodes as much as possible. 18:35 MTDiscord maybe bad idea: collect the set of defaults to apply, if there is a conflict, only use scancode defaults; otherwise try to use keycode defaults for most letter-bound keys. 18:35 sfan5 that might be confusing 18:36 [MatrxMT] The solution I use so far: the keycode-based defaults are used if the player has previously set a keybinding (using EKEY_CODE-based values) 18:48 MTDiscord well, i don't know. i think keycode defaults might make more sense. they'll be more consistent with older luanti versions, and they simply have the correct labels out of the box. 18:48 MTDiscord the main downside being that AZERTY et al users (which i think are in the minority and probably used to this) have to rebind WASD. 18:49 [MatrxMT] Except keycode-based settings are basically a hack now with scancodes, see e.g. what I wrote above on +/= and / 18:49 MTDiscord A-Z and 0-9 should work though, right? I deem +, - and / not as important. 18:51 [MatrxMT] A-Z and 0-9 works already. Also I think most keys are not based on keycodes (see e.g. H/J/K for the flying-related ones) 18:54 MTDiscord I know that they work, but currently, for a fresh Luanti setup, the scancodes will be preferred for the defaults, right? 18:54 [MatrxMT] Yes 18:55 SFENCE I just check it in two random games from steam, binding Z is sensitiv to keyboard laynout in one, and not sensitiv to it in second. So, we should probably select binding by scancodes or characters, and go with it. 18:55 SFENCE not mixing it. 18:56 MTDiscord I mean, I would prefer it that if I set Luanti up on a machine with a German keyboard layout, Z is still Zoom, and it is possible to do this in the code. 18:57 SFENCE We can aslo do multiple key binds, so Y and Z can be bidn to Zoom ? 18:58 [MatrxMT] #15577 18:58 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15577 -- Implement secondary keybindings by y5nw 18:58 MTDiscord And I think this should probably be done for all A-Z keys if possible, at the expense of e.g. AZERTY users who will have to rebind WASD (as is already the case). 18:59 MTDiscord Was the point about the movement-related keys H /J/K that they are supposed to be in a row, hence scancodes might be the better choice? 19:00 MTDiscord Well, I think users will survive either way, but "Z is zoom, I is inventory, C is camera, ..." is easier to explain than scancodes / requiring everyone to first bind their controls. 19:00 [MatrxMT] Also that, but I don't think we can find another sensible default 19:00 [MatrxMT] (H/J/K) 19:01 [MatrxMT] One problem with secondary keybindings is that they won't resolve conflicts. It's fine for scancodes, but using that for keycodes can be messy 19:01 MTDiscord I agree 19:03 celeron55 frankly even i don't use the i=inventory default even while i'm the one who put that in initially 19:04 celeron55 i personally switched to e=inventory early on 19:04 [MatrxMT] Also: with the missing information on keycodes based on shifted states we will "break" (new) user configurations in one way or another. The difference is largely in that they break different configurations. 19:04 MTDiscord celeron55: if you have e=inventory, what's aux1 then? šŸ˜± 19:04 [MatrxMT] F probably? 19:04 celeron55 yes, F 19:05 MTDiscord y5nw: Indeed. I think we can ultimately roll with either. Maybe we should find a way to automatically put new users in the controls dialog to minimize confusion. 19:06 MTDiscord F seems weird to me for that since aux1 is often sprinting, and WE being next to each other is good for that. But I digress šŸ˜„ 19:07 celeron55 well we, as pc users, should embrace rebinding 19:07 celeron55 "best controls" are a console thing 19:07 celeron55 and "no controls" is the phone thing 19:08 celeron55 (touchscreen doesn't count as control) 19:08 [MatrxMT] Arguably this is only relevant for keyboards anyway since the underlying keybindings hardly matter for touchscreen users as long as the keybinding in question is valid 19:09 celeron55 of course, a keyboard is both a solution and a problem at the same time 19:10 celeron55 but one should assume that if someone has a keyboard, they will have personal preferences over which of the 100 keys does what, and given that fact, it's not as crucial to have perfect defaults 19:10 Desour keyboard, and other devices with keys, like keymice 19:11 [MatrxMT] Alternatively we can open a new issue on discussing keybinding defaults. That will likely miss the release deadline but at the current stage I would avoid pushing for SDL in 5.11 19:13 MTDiscord that sounds like it would be likely to devolve into bikeshedding, which was not my intention 19:18 SFENCE I think, if we wants to start feature freeze time today, we shoul go without SDL, otherwise, we should delay release. 19:19 SFENCE and feature freeze time 19:20 MTDiscord Do we want to start today? 19:21 MTDiscord If so, I would like to merge #15606 first. I see no benefit in delaying it. 19:21 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15606 -- Allow overriding fonts via media files by appgurueu 19:21 [MatrxMT] I could imagine that we might not release in two weeks because of FOSDEM (or will there be a meeting regardless?), in which case it may be possible to get the scancode PR merged 19:22 MTDiscord if you count yourself as one approval, then it has two approvals 19:22 MTDiscord so why not 19:22 MTDiscord we can just hold the meeting irl šŸ˜Ž 19:23 MTDiscord (idk about that lol but some of us will be there at least, i for instance plan to be there) 19:27 MTDiscord well, imma go ahead and merge #15606 in 15m. 19:27 ShadowBot https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15606 -- Allow overriding fonts via media files by appgurueu 19:43 MTDiscord done. i can go back to unfucking skeletal animation now 19:53 MTDiscord im just goring to throw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/25 out there since its got a lot in it and feature freeze soon 20:03 [MatrxMT] so.. what are we gonna do? It'd be nice to maintain the planned schedule 20:04 [MatrxMT] also, point nĀ°2 is about FOSDEM, so tagging celeron55: "PLEASE finish the renaming process before FOSDEM" 20:05 [MatrxMT] right now our repo still says "Minetest" 20:05 [ some servers use aux1 for running, f is inconvenient for that with qwerty (and e is convenient) 20:05 [MatrxMT] It'd be pretty confusing in my opinion 20:05 [MatrxMT] also IRC 20:05 Desour release what we have now, and postpone the rest (i.e. wishlist items on the milestone, and SDL2)? 20:06 [MatrxMT] I agree, SDL2 sounds pretty risky, but we should really merge y5nw's PR right after that 20:06 [ IRC channels cannot be renamed 20:06 [ You can, however, redirect the old channel to the new one and kick everyone 20:07 celeron55 i might as well now explain here what will happen on github, regarding to the name change 20:07 celeron55 the only redirect github supports is an automatic redirect that's created in place of a repo, if a repo is transferred between owners (organizations or users) 20:08 celeron55 for this reason, i will do repo transfers from the minetest organization to the luanti-org organization 20:08 celeron55 user permissions can't be transferred, so everyone will have to accept new invites to luanti-org 20:08 [ You might as well use the opportunity to switch from github to something freedom-respecting 20:08 [ like codeberg 20:08 celeron55 the repo name can be changed in the transfer. i will use that also 20:08 MTDiscord yep, just checked the docs and transferring from the minetest org to the luanti org should be unproblematic 20:09 MTDiscord [_: not quite. transferring stuff on GH is essentially free (GH takes care of the redirects), moving to codeberg is not. it would cause disruption especially with CI. 20:09 celeron55 the organization discussions are stored as a repo and i have been told moving them should be possible. i don't know if this is a fact 20:12 celeron55 anyway, does anyone want to volunteer to do some of this stuff? i could hand the necessary permissions to luanti-org for a while, if someone would like to give it a go 20:13 celeron55 there are lots of details to get right, i'm sure i'll miss some of them 20:20 celeron55 if i now transferred minetest/minetest to luanti-org/luanti, what would happen? 20:21 celeron55 the redirects should immediately work for cloning and issues and whatnot 20:21 celeron55 i think most importantly most would lose write access to it. regaining that requires the teams to be set up again on luanti-org 20:24 celeron55 organization discussions would remain in the old organization. not sure what transferring them succesfully requires 20:25 celeron55 luanti-org is missing at least the description and logo, but that's trivial 20:27 sfan5 im just goring to throw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/25 out there since its got a lot in it and feature freeze soon 20:27 sfan5 obviously we will have to remove half 20:27 sfan5 it was basically a wishlist for 5.11, not more 20:38 [MatrxMT] could add some of the cool stuff that actually happened to the milestone so it feels better :)) 20:43 celeron55 i'm inviting everyone now to luanti-org (one by one, this is stupidly tedious) 20:44 celeron55 please accept the invite so that 1) i don't have to do it again, 2) you will have access to the transferred repos once i start transferring them 20:56 [MatrxMT] so we're going into FF removing SDL2 and the other 2 features? 20:56 [MatrxMT] Release is expected in 3 weeks