Time Nick Message 00:01 Megaf aright 00:19 Megaf I will be playing with Minetest Server on a Raspberry Pi 2 soon 00:19 Megaf transferring the image to the sd card right now 00:21 Megaf I wonder how long will it take to compile 00:22 Megaf I need somebody to make a mod that benchmarks the server 00:22 Megaf time to generate x blocks for example 00:22 Megaf and benchmarks some operations in Lua too 00:22 * paramat runs away 00:24 * Megaf traps paramat 00:24 Megaf you up for the job? 00:24 Megaf :P 00:25 Fixer try /emergeblocks benchmark 00:26 Fixer Megaf: on forum I posted a thread with /emergeblock benchmark, try it 00:54 Roger9 yay 01:12 Megaf pi@Blacknium:~ $ hostname -f 01:12 Megaf Blacknium.Metal.Loca 01:12 Megaf new hostname :) 01:12 Megaf Local* 04:28 MinetestBot Lupercus: Oct-09 19:47 UTC <Krock> How to block multicraft users: Switch to 0.5.0 06:17 sofar or have ~30mb of hi res skybox textures and 10 3-minute music tracks 06:17 sofar I get zero android clients on my server 07:31 FourFire I'm getting this error: https://hastebin.com/equrulahox.tex The relevant line is the contents of this if statement: https://hastebin.com/xizoxufuda.lua 07:32 FourFire How do I force the script to skip the lines between then & else ? 07:35 FourFire I also tried if(not stone_xyz = "nil") then 07:36 FourFire which yields init.lua:253: ')' expected near '=' 07:39 FourFire Ah I figured it out: if(not stone_xyz) 07:40 FourFire No comparison needed 10:08 shivajiva Anyone with write access to unified_inventory around to merge my pr? It's been 8 days since I made it 10:10 shivajiva you'd think a pr that removes >900 core function calls on player login would be worth merging asap 10:11 shivajiva or was it >400 calls...either way... 13:38 Megaf Good morning 13:39 Mr_Pardison Morning Megaf 13:44 Megaf Greetings ThomasMonroe 13:47 shivajiva Greetings Megaf 13:49 ThomasMonroe hello Megaf, shivajiva 13:50 shivajiva Hello ThomasM 13:51 Mr_Pardison Greetings, shivajiva 13:52 shivajiva Hi Mr_P, didn't mean to leave you out :) 13:53 Mr_Pardison I'm used to being left out since I tend to be the quiet one. 13:53 Mr_Pardison Just silently observing and seeing what goes on. 13:53 Megaf Hah 13:53 shivajiva being a voyeur is okay 13:54 shivajiva as you can see not much going on atm 13:54 ThomasMonroe hiya Mr_Pardison 13:55 Mr_Pardison Hello ThomasMonroe 13:56 shivajiva I see Russia have a missing satellite, they seem to have put it in the wrong orbit... 14:13 IhrFussel minetest.rotate_and_place doesn't take the item from the stack if you place it on a pedestal ... now I replaced "on_place = minetest.rotate_and_place" with "after_place_node = function...... itemstack:take_item() return itemstack end" but I'd like to still rotate and place after I made sure that the item was taken from the stack 14:27 IhrFussel after_place_node = function(pos, placer, itemstack, pointed_thing) itemstack:take_item() minetest.rotate_and_place() return itemstack end << error "pointed_thing is nil" 14:29 Megaf shivajiva: did you see they intercepted an American plane yesterday? 14:30 Megaf https://www.stripes.com/news/russian-jet-performs-unsafe-intercept-of-us-navy-plane-1.499761 14:30 * Mr_Pardison goes back to being overwatch and talking about jousting 14:37 shivajiva Hi RobbieF 14:38 RobbieF shivajiva!! How are ya? 14:38 shivajiva it's not unusual Megaf the UK regularly intercepts Russian planes flying in our airspace 14:38 shivajiva Good thanks, hbu? 14:38 Megaf shivajiva: I know :) 14:39 Megaf I wonder what would happen if the USA decided to send some F-22 to fly close to Russia... I want to see them intercept that 14:40 shivajiva you know the Russians would try and shoot it down with SAMs 14:40 Mr_Pardison something would probably go badly for one side. 14:41 Megaf Only if the raptors got too close 14:41 Megaf they are not invisible but they are much harder to detect 14:41 shivajiva have you seen the Klub series, all nicely packed in a container, doors open and the roof jacks and they are ready to launch 14:41 Mr_Pardison they could but depending on how the SAM's track there target, they could be evaded or fooled. 14:42 shivajiva kinda reminds me of Walmart and what they seem to be doing in the States with 124 of their stores 14:43 shivajiva looks like Walmart = FEMA 14:44 Megaf Changing topics. Since I decided to not use HHVM again and use Apache + PHP7 I could reduce the RAM size from almost 1 GB on my web server to 128 MB 14:44 RobbieF I'm doing very well thanks. Big things happening on Minetest.TV too so it's an exciting time! 14:45 shivajiva in fact they released a public information clip suggesting you report any thing suspicious to your local Walmart manager 14:45 Mr_Pardison like a fire in the store? 14:46 shivajiva Cool Robbie, what specifically is happening? 14:46 shivajiva no like you think the guy across the road is a terrorist 14:47 shivajiva it seems so natural to report terrorism to the local Walmart manager doesn't it :) 14:48 Mr_Pardison in this crazy world we live in, what is natural? 14:51 shivajiva certainly not the evidence to suggest we live on a heavily quarried planet that pre-dates our history 14:52 shivajiva nor the trinitite found in India that is 5000 years old 14:53 Jordach RobbieF, Shara https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?p=301685#p301685 14:53 Jordach i am literally hot shit 14:54 * shivajiva hesitates and clicks 14:55 Jordach i can generate players hands on automated server restarts 14:55 benrob0329 Jordach: only for about 5 minutes though :P 14:55 Jordach until they change their appearance 14:56 Jordach computing 24bits of HEX RGBA isn't a fun ideal for item registry 14:56 benrob0329 No, you only "hot shit" on the forums for about 5 minutes 14:56 * Jordach drops a mixtape 14:56 benrob0329 Then someone else posts :P 14:56 Jordach the system was working 14:56 Jordach just not the system that gives out the hands 14:56 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/HZKuPa8.jpg 14:57 Jordach it was this little shit 14:57 Jordach https://gist.github.com/Jordach/ec18696a5664923e1b6fea0bd5097255 14:57 Jordach then i realised 14:57 Jordach a break statement would have solved it 14:57 Jordach (or moving the _default_ before the loop) 15:00 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/oSLdnjn.jpg 15:10 RobbieF shivajiva I'm working on a new user system that lets people sign up for a free account and skin their character, follow other players, etc. 15:11 RobbieF as you know we have a very advanced skinning system 15:11 RobbieF so we're taking it to the next level with a built-in skin editor, ability to switch skins, etc. 15:12 RobbieF and there's a mod servers can use to connect their players to their skins 15:12 Jordach RobbieF, >built in skin editor 15:12 Jordach been there done that 15:12 Jordach :^) 15:13 RobbieF not in-game Jordach 15:13 Jordach hehe 15:18 jas_ /give RobbieF dresser:skin_item_sam 15:18 jas_ i like the clothing mod, you use that right? 15:18 RobbieF I do not. 15:18 jas_ oh i see 15:19 RobbieF We use multiskin 15:19 jas_ clothing requires multiskin 15:19 jas_ (afaik) 15:19 RobbieF though the creative server supports clothing 15:19 jas_ i dunno how that mod works, multiskin, but am very glad that it does! 15:19 RobbieF but that is unrelated to our skin API 15:19 jas_ i use craftitems as skins you must have in your inventory 15:19 jas_ and you put then in a dresser node 15:19 jas_ it's super weird 15:20 jas_ but i just like holding a little sam 15:21 CBugDCoder RobbieF so would it be possible to use your skin database on tre's and my server Legends Of Survival? 15:24 RobbieF CBugDCoder - yes. 15:25 CBugDCoder ok :) cause i am getting swamped with skin requests and it would be nice to have it so the players can add their own skins 15:26 RobbieF oh sure... email me contact@category5.tv and I'll try to notify you when it's ready for other servers. 15:26 RobbieF we've been using it on multiple servers here and it's great 15:27 CBugDCoder kk ill have tre do that since i dont have an email yet XD 15:28 RobbieF heh 15:28 RobbieF what is this, 1988? 15:28 RobbieF ;) 15:29 ThomasMonroe nah we don't even have cell-phones yet XD 15:29 CBugDCoder nope its 1634 XD 15:29 RobbieF Time to build the railroad! 15:29 ThomasMonroe also RobbieF I'm almost always here unless I am having net probs, so you could contact me via memoserv 15:30 RobbieF Thanks. But I'm more asking for the email because [haha] I know I'll forget. 15:30 ThomasMonroe ah ok lol got it 15:31 ThomasMonroe i don't check my e-mail that often though 15:38 RobbieF alright, well you guys know where to find me :) 15:38 CBugDCoder will the skin switching be in-game of on the site? 15:38 RobbieF The new back-end will be up on our web site as well 15:38 RobbieF CBugDCoder, through the web site, much more like Minecraft. 15:38 CBugDCoder ok 15:39 RobbieF however our system will support *multiple* skins per player, so they can change skins at will. 15:39 CBugDCoder ok ittle just require a server restart to apply or will it just need to restart to add new skins? 15:42 RobbieF no, you don't need to restart. 15:42 CBugDCoder ok then how would the new textures be sent to the clients? 15:43 RobbieF working that out CBugDCoder - still developing it. 15:43 CBugDCoder ok 15:50 CBugDCoder thx for developing the mod our server avrages 25 players on at a time and i cant keep up with the skin requests XD 15:50 RobbieF yeah that'd be brutal 15:51 RobbieF our servers are all automatic for skins... players upload their own 15:51 RobbieF so I'll simply be opening that up for other server admins, and also giving the players a built-in editor 15:52 Megaf CBugDCoder: Hm, who are you? 15:52 Megaf Hi RobbieF jas_ 15:52 CBugDCoder CalebDavis :) 15:52 jas_ hi 15:52 Megaf Oh, Hi Caleb :) 15:53 Megaf I'm feeling fat 15:53 Megaf Tigers can't be fat 15:56 Megaf Eating peanut butter straight out of the jar, with a spoon 15:56 Mr_Pardison just my style. 15:56 Mr_Pardison except for when I have apples in which case I might pair them depending on what type it is. 15:56 Megaf So I'm not the only insane who does that 15:57 Mr_Pardison I'm not crazy! 15:57 Mr_Pardison My mother had me tested. 15:57 Mr_Pardison XD 15:57 CBugDCoder i love eating peanut butter straight out of the jar :) 15:57 Megaf Cool 15:58 Megaf Thanks folks :P 15:58 Megaf I feel better now 15:58 Megaf You prefer the crunchy one or the smooth? 15:58 Mr_Pardison smooth. 15:58 CBugDCoder both 15:58 Mr_Pardison Jif brand. 15:58 CBugDCoder depends on how i feel 15:58 CBugDCoder and i do Jif too 15:58 Mr_Pardison I'll settle for Skippy if it's cheaper. 15:59 Megaf I eat Tescos, Tesco peanut butter is supper cheap and delicious. And I prefer the crunchy one 16:00 CBugDCoder i have Jif cause my dad wont have any other brand it is one of the few things he is picky about XD 16:00 Megaf Hah 16:01 Megaf -bash: bin/minetestserver: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error 16:01 Megaf Oh well 16:02 Megaf I guess that's what you get when you try to run amd64 binary on an ARMv7 board 16:02 * Mr_Pardison hands Megaf an arm 16:02 Mr_Pardison that might help. 16:02 Megaf hah 16:28 IhrFussel Does anyone have an idea on how to take an item from the stack on_place PLUS use minetest.rotate_and_place on that node after? 16:29 Mr_Pardison as in the node rotates after being placed? 16:30 IhrFussel Yes ... I'm modifying a node that could be exploited on peestals (itemframes mod) because minetest.rotate_and_place() doesn't seem to take from the stack when used with pedestals 16:30 IhrFussel pedestals* 16:30 Mr_Pardison I've seen that tree trunks when placed sometimes rotate for some reason. 16:31 Mr_Pardison I think it might be due to where the player is relative to the node. 16:31 IhrFussel The original line in the definition was on_place = minetest.rotate_and_place which works fine when placed by a player BUT on pedestals the stack doesn't reduce meaning unlimited items 16:31 Mr_Pardison I got nothing on that front. 16:33 IhrFussel My "bugfix" for now is replacing on_place with after_place_node() and I put itemstack:take_item() return itemstack end which works fine now EXCEPT the node doesn't rotate and place anymore 16:33 Mr_Pardison have you tired limiting the number of items that can be placed on the pedestal? 16:33 IhrFussel Calling minetest.rotate_and_place inside after_place_node causes a crash "pointed_thing nil value" 16:34 Mr_Pardison based on that crash error, I would think that you would need to assign it a value. 16:34 Mr_Pardison not completely sure tho since I've barely started to dive in to lua 16:34 IhrFussel I think minetest.rotate_and_place is only designed for the on_place callback which transfers the parameters in a different order I think 16:37 IhrFussel The problem isn't the pedestals since all other node types work as expected with no exploit... the problematic nodes are also the only ones that use minetest.rotate_and_place so that's definitely the source of the problem 16:53 Megaf Don't you hate when you set your flags in ./configure AND as a variable in make yet the compiler ignores it? 16:53 Megaf minetest@Blacknium:/dev/shm/SQLITE_BUILD $ time make CXX_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" C_FLAGS="-march=native -mfpmath=both -Ofast -pipe -fomit-frame-pointer -funroll-loops" -j 4 16:53 Megaf gcc -g -O2 -o mksourceid /dev/shm/sqlite/tool/mksourceid.c 16:53 Megaf gcc -g -O2 -o lemon /dev/shm/sqlite/tool/lemon.c 16:54 Megaf sfan5: ideias why is that happening? ^ 16:54 Megaf It seems to have gotten other flags right though, it's just not using the -Ofast 16:55 sofar sqlite makefile just hardcodes it I think 16:56 Megaf well, there's not a huge performance gain in Ofast from O2 I think 16:56 sofar you'd have to test it 16:56 sofar we patch the heck out of it in clearlinux 16:56 Megaf According to my tests I got a nice performance gain from other flags, make specific flags 16:56 sofar so there's significant gains to be had 16:57 Megaf I mean, sqlite specific 16:57 Megaf like disabling threadsafe 16:57 sofar https://github.com/clearlinux-pkgs/sqlite-autoconf 16:57 Megaf -DSQLITE_THREADSAFE=0 <- nice performance gain from here 16:57 Megaf sofar: by we you mean yourself included? 16:58 sofar "we" as in "the Intel ClearLinux team" 16:59 Megaf I could join the project (Can't already imagine solar reaction if I do) 17:00 sofar I'm sure we have a few job openings atm 17:00 sofar we usually do 17:00 sofar "solar"? 17:00 * Mr_Pardison posts a "now hiring, apply within" sign 17:00 Megaf sofar* 17:00 Mr_Pardison also, welcome to RC's irc sofar. 17:00 Megaf High Sierra auto correct... 17:00 sofar ah, lol 17:01 Megaf sofar, I could do with a job. 17:02 sofar intel.com/jobs 17:02 sofar (seriously, that's the best way to start) 17:02 * Mr_Pardison makes a note of this 17:02 Megaf sofar: even if I'm not the biggest intel fan? 17:03 sofar critical employees are vital for tech companies 17:03 sofar (critical ~= fanboyism) 17:06 Megaf sofar, I really don't see Intel hiring me :P I'm quite confident of my skill, I just thing they are not interested 17:07 Mr_Pardison well, I must depart for now. 17:07 Megaf nobody care for a nerd who is very good in finding bugs and is driven by perfection 17:07 Mr_Pardison I will c y'all in a bit. 17:07 Megaf cya Mr_Pardison 17:07 sofar megaf: what the actual BLEEP 17:07 Mr_Pardison Megaf: same here! I like to find bugs and stuff. 17:07 Mr_Pardison but the perfection part not so much. 17:07 sofar do you know how many people around me have that exact same attitude? 17:07 Mr_Pardison k now I'm out. 17:08 sofar literally, everyone 17:08 Megaf sofar, yep. But I can't code 17:08 sofar we all pretend 17:08 sofar most of the time, anyway 17:08 shivajiva :) 17:08 Megaf I'm just a bridge, a link, between design, develop and user 17:09 Megaf See? I'm a Minetest player myself, admin a server, and now and then send PRs and report bugs. 17:09 sofar any tech company will hire you 17:09 Megaf sofar, I have been in the market for the last 4 years. Still unemployed. 17:09 sofar can you spell "steps to reproduce" ? 17:09 Megaf I don't believe in the tech industry anymore 17:10 sofar you don't have to 17:10 benrob0329 "I dont complain, I professionally complain" 17:10 Megaf Linux is part of my life sine 2003, when I transitioned from Windows Server 2003. 17:10 Megaf Always trying to squeeze the max performance from the hardware and software I can 17:10 Megaf well 17:10 Megaf I don't really say these things in my CV 17:10 Megaf maybe I should 17:12 sofar well, this offer stands for everyone: if you want me to review and help improve a resume, send it to me 17:12 sofar at: auke-jan.h.kok@intel.com 17:13 * Megaf see someone is actually hunting for new talents 17:15 Megaf sofar: Thank you. Will be reaching you this week 17:17 * shivajiva is impressed 17:18 Megaf Now, back to Minetest development. Anyone has any idea how can we do this? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1643 17:19 * Mr_Pardison goes back to gaming 17:20 Megaf rubenwardy: I will further investigate the server time clock and dedicated server step when minetestserver finishes building here. I'm making a local copy of it. 17:20 Megaf ( https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2408#issuecomment-232384313 ) 17:25 Fixer Megaf: no wonder, shittons of IT people arrived into Ireland and saturated its market to no avail 17:26 Megaf Plenty of jobs for coders though 17:27 Fixer go into coding 17:27 Fixer if you like it ofc 17:30 Megaf Fixer: I have ADHD, very real and serious case of it. For me coding can be extremely taxing because of that 17:30 Megaf Coding and maths 17:31 Megaf hm 17:31 Megaf cmake is failing to identify the compilers in Raspbian 17:31 Megaf weird 17:32 Megaf I just built SQLite and LuaJIT, I promise the compilers are just fine 17:32 Megaf -- The C compiler identification is unknown 17:32 Megaf -- The CXX compiler identification is unknown 17:32 Megaf -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/cc 17:32 Megaf -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/cc -- broken 17:32 Megaf CMake Error at /usr/share/cmake-3.7/Modules/CMakeTestCCompiler.cmake:51 (message): 17:32 Megaf The C compiler "/usr/bin/cc" is not able to compile a simple test program. 17:32 Megaf oops, sorry for flood, pressed the wrong button. 17:32 Megaf but there you have it 17:33 Megaf Im doing CC=/usr/bin/gcc-6 CXX=/usr/bin/cpp-6 cmake 17:33 sofar c++6 17:33 sofar not cpp6? 17:34 sofar err c++-6 instead of cpp-6 17:34 sofar cpp != c++ 17:34 Megaf anyway, it's failing with cc 17:34 sofar but, there are better ways of calling a different cc 17:35 Megaf make is just completely ignoring CC=/usr/bin/gcc CPP=/usr/bin/c++ 17:35 Megaf as is searing /usr/bin/cc 17:37 Megaf well, cc ultimately links to gcc anyway, so it should work 17:37 Megaf minetest@Blacknium:/run/shm/BuildMegafServer $ cc --version 17:37 Megaf cc (Raspbian 6.3.0-18+rpi1) 6.3.0 20170516 17:38 Megaf make used to take environment variables to get the compiler binary, don't know why it isn't working anymore 17:40 Megaf editing CmakeCache and setting compiler that doesn't work either. 17:40 Megaf -- Check for working C compiler: /usr/bin/clang -- broken 17:41 Megaf (cmake actually is taking and using environment variables, as long as CMakeCache is not present) 17:41 Megaf but it still can't use the compilers 17:42 Megaf Problem solved. 17:42 Megaf gcc: error: unrecognized command line option ‘-mfpmath=both’ 17:43 Megaf I compiled LuaJIT and SQLite with that flag, but for some reason it doesn't work in Minetest 17:45 IhrFussel Someone joins your server and calls themselves "Beta tester" ... then complains about lag 17:47 Krock Why aren't you a beta tester too? Like we all in here are and we target to the best performance. 17:51 Mr_Pardison lol 17:51 Mr_Pardison to the name. 17:51 IhrFussel I just find it a bit *rude* to complain about (minimal) lag on a content rich server ... of course some trade-offs have to be made with so many features 17:51 Mr_Pardison also, greetings Krock 17:52 IhrFussel Some people probaby compare MT server performance to Minecraft's 17:52 Mr_Pardison if they do, then they are doing something wrong. 17:53 IhrFussel I cannot even optimize my server more...there is a limitation (IO wait) and there's no way around it right now... I can just try to tune the conf settings to an extent 17:53 Krock hi Mr_Pardison. What name? 17:53 * Krock checks logs 17:54 IhrFussel Oh his name wasn't "Beta_Tester" he just said in the chat "Hi I'm a server Beta Tester" 17:55 Megaf Place your bets on how long will it take for my Raspberry 2 with 4 ARMv7 cores running at 1 GHz to build minutest server 17:55 Mr_Pardison what IhrFussel said about a player joining and calling themselves "beta tester". 17:56 IhrFussel Mr_Pardison, his account wasn't "Beta_Tester" but nonetheless he made me feel like he was calling me a "bad admin" 17:57 Mr_Pardison how can one be a bad admin fi they attend to there server and make sure things run nicely? 17:57 Mr_Pardison *if 17:57 IhrFussel Well a few smaller lags apparently make him think that the admin has no idea of running a server 17:58 sofar publishing data and monitoring it are ways to handle criticism 17:58 sofar if you're open about it, you get a more positive response 17:59 IhrFussel I have no access to a faster medium either...no SSD or something like that, my hoster doesn't offer that for the "low" price I pay 17:59 rubenwardy how do you actually monitor lag? You can be matching the dedicated_server_step, and still have issues 17:59 rubenwardy really you want to see the network send/receive, and compare it to limits 17:59 rubenwardy heh 17:59 sofar hence: https://minetest.foo-projects.org/status.html 17:59 Megaf rubenwardy: /status see max lag and other things there 18:00 sofar we should do some work to monitor client udp rtt as well 18:00 rubenwardy max_lag is helpful to see blocking actions 18:00 IhrFussel max_lag is a bad indicator...max_lag right now shows 3.5 but my own /lag command shows me avg lag is 0.165 secs so not too bad 18:00 rubenwardy s/actions/lua scripts/g 18:00 Megaf we have /lag? 18:00 sofar he does 18:00 Megaf IhrFussel: Send PR for that :) 18:00 sofar there are many ways to measure responsiveness 18:01 Megaf Time to build minetestserver on my Raspberry Pi 2 = real 17m6.043s 18:01 IhrFussel I linked my avg_lag mod here a few weeks ago...one sec maybe I still got the zip 18:02 IhrFussel http://ihrfussels-server.tk/lagmod.tar.gz should be it 18:02 Megaf Will eat something, cya 18:05 rubenwardy jeez, indentation would be good :D 18:05 IhrFussel max_lag 4.6 /lag only shows 1 critical tick (1+ secs) which means the max_lag was caused by map_save_interval 18:06 IhrFussel Which only runs once per minute right now ... rubenwardy I do my codding in nano, indentation isn't really doable there 18:07 IhrFussel coding* 18:07 rubenwardy lol 18:07 rubenwardy wow 18:07 sofar m_lag/max_lag is pretty brutal about spikes, yes 18:07 sofar but considering everyone uses it as a measure, it's not necessarily unfair 18:07 IhrFussel Yes one spike for several minutes is enough to make players think the server is a lag fest 18:08 rubenwardy IhrFussel, you do an average in that 18:08 rubenwardy whereas max_lag looks for the biggest server step essentially 18:08 rubenwardy with some gradual settingly down (x0.8 per something?) 18:08 sofar IhrFussel: only fair thing to do would be to change the value for everyone, not just for your server 18:09 IhrFussel I know but the highest step could have been quite a few minutes ago and still is a bit high then while /lag already shows 0 critical lags again 18:09 sofar we should rather add avg_lag and min_lag? 18:09 sofar again, more data is more sense 18:10 IhrFussel I already suggested something like avg lag to be added...not sure what happened with that issue or if I ever created one...maybe I just discussed it here 18:13 IhrFussel I think that's what a few people suggested in the "replace ping with m_lag" PR ... a way to measure the actual avg lag 18:13 sofar we should *add* it rather than replacing the max_lag 18:13 IhrFussel Which m_lag basically is by the way... it is not max_lag I think cause it shows values between 150-200 for my server 18:16 sofar add min_lag while we're at it 18:17 rubenwardy you could just avoid long freezes by splitting up work across steps/ticks 18:19 IhrFussel Can the server only save 1 mapblock per step by the way? 18:20 IhrFussel Cause I get the feeling lower step interval = more DB access ... maybe I'm wrong though 18:24 IhrFussel I only know that sending mapblocks/updating them client-side is tied to the server steps 18:24 sofar 1 mapblock save would be difficult 18:24 sofar but I'm sure you could limit it to some reasonable number 18:25 sofar more db access means smaller work chunks means less lag spikes 18:25 sofar set it to 0.1 18:25 sofar then see what happens 18:25 sofar probably high IO, but lower lag spikes 18:25 Fixer max_lag is server lag over big period of time, pep0l want more instanteneous measurement of lag 18:25 sofar people don't want lag 18:26 sofar it's all irrelevant, anyway 18:26 sofar the only thing that matters is how you rank amongst fairly measured peers 18:26 Fixer max_lag can say 10, but in this very moment it can be 0.00000000000001 18:26 Fixer nevermind 18:26 sofar that's why ranking is better than raw data, for players 18:27 IhrFussel sofar, but isn't high IO wait what's causing the lags? I'm pretty sure it is 18:27 sofar you'd see more writes total 18:27 sofar but only smaller amounts per interval 18:27 IhrFussel When my server lags for a few secs I see IO wait for Emerge-0 at 50-80% 18:27 sofar honestly, try setting it to some ridiculously small value and run it like that for a few hours 18:28 sofar sub-0.5 or so 18:28 sofar my bet is that it will improve the enormous spikes a lot 18:28 IhrFussel Well...I could try that, nothing to lose 18:28 sofar at the cost of some other value somewhere else 18:28 sofar at least the data will be useful 18:29 IhrFussel And map_save_interval? 18:29 sofar yes 18:29 sofar same 18:29 rubenwardy sorry if any core devs got any notifications, was just playing with https://github.com/blog/2471-introducing-team-discussions 18:30 rubenwardy it's a good place to talk about any bad security issues or our nefarious plans of ruining the game 18:31 sofar ah, nice 18:31 rubenwardy direct link: https://github.com/orgs/minetest/teams/team-minetest/discussions 18:31 sofar so let's talk about the unrestricted CSM stuff there 18:31 rubenwardy oh yeah 18:31 rubenwardy minetest.run_shell_command 18:31 Krock tested the reply function just now. seems to work 18:31 rubenwardy minetest.get_root_on_host 18:32 sofar I was thinking minetest.send_player_credentials() and minetest.desktop_screenshot() 18:32 sofar minetest.send_key_strokes() 18:32 IhrFussel minetest.enable_webcam() ;) 18:33 rubenwardy should totally add webcam support 18:33 sofar sexual harassment is kind of out of fashion 18:33 rubenwardy require players to send a photo of their ID and debit card to get a centralised account 18:33 Krock IhrFussel, no need to. defaults to enabled and recording to public stream ofc 18:34 sofar true, everyone live streams anyway 18:34 sofar cptunderpants 18:34 rubenwardy implement face recognition on login, will allow players to share their password without worry 18:35 Calinou `minetest.desktop_screenshot()` 18:35 Calinou like PunkBuster? :D 18:35 Calinou PunkBuster* 18:36 Calinou (it has a "screenshot to admin" functionaity) 18:36 rubenwardy that should be an engine feature 18:36 rubenwardy stop pushing features to mods, god damn it 18:36 rubenwardy good for checking for cheating 18:40 Fixer "stop pushing features to mods, god damn it" +1 18:40 Mr_Pardison missed a lot while at lunch. 18:40 Mr_Pardison meh. 18:40 rubenwardy Fixer, I was actually being satirical :D 18:41 Megaf Imagine going to college in one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhnjMdzGusc 18:41 Fixer rubenwardy: stop being satirical, MTG needs features NOW 18:41 rubenwardy Fixer, MTG is a set of mods 18:41 Fixer yeah 18:41 rubenwardy I'd like to see more features in it 18:41 Fixer Merge MOAR 18:41 IhrFussel But is that the actual general opinion of core devs? "engine doesn't need those features, mods can implement them" 18:41 rubenwardy well, I can say that crafting may be easier in 0.5.0 18:41 rubenwardy <_< 18:41 rubenwardy >_> 18:42 Mr_Pardison >.< 18:42 Mr_Pardison easier crafting? 18:42 rubenwardy ^_^ 18:42 * Mr_Pardison likes a challenge 18:42 rubenwardy https://github.com/minetest-mods/craftguide/commit/64a711530f4503644b08ce98f920dbe5eccba743 18:43 * Megaf wishes new features were not added while old features still broken and slow 18:43 rubenwardy Megaf, Minetest does have a lot of technical debt 18:43 Mr_Pardison fix them then add in broken ones. 18:43 rubenwardy but MTG less so 18:43 rubenwardy as there's very little in it 18:44 Fixer MERGE ALL THE THINGS / starts vaporwave 18:44 rubenwardy alright proller 18:44 IhrFussel I'm pretty sure I have at least 10 mods installed that wouldn't need to be if the engine supported it (plus it would be way faster) like auto item collecting, wieldview, actibity tracking 18:44 sofar blocking features and keeping the code hostage is a certain way to kill MT 18:44 rubenwardy / thexyz 18:44 rubenwardy lol 18:44 IhrFussel activity* 18:45 rubenwardy r/crazyideas: require core devs to make 3 bug fixes before merging a feature of their own 18:45 Mr_Pardison not crazy. 18:45 Mr_Pardison IMO rather smart. 18:45 sofar you sound like a republican 18:45 Mr_Pardison forces them to fix them before they add in something smart. 18:45 sofar I mean 18:45 Mr_Pardison *something. smart 18:45 sofar LITERALLY you sound like one particular one 18:45 Mr_Pardison to whom are you speaking? 18:46 rubenwardy ^ 18:46 sofar http://www.dailywire.com/news/18844/great-trump-promised-cut-2-regulations-every-new-james-barrett 18:46 Krock it's yuge 18:46 Fixer wall 18:46 Mr_Pardison no way m8. 18:46 rubenwardy BUILD A WALL 18:46 sofar the problem is that it sounds appealing 18:46 rubenwardy sheet, my cover has been blown 18:47 Fixer sheet? 18:47 sofar but reality is that hostage taking == hostage taking 18:47 Mr_Pardison I'm analytical and I can actually look at what I've done and see where I have gone wrong and attempt to fix those or not commit that error in the future. 18:47 rubenwardy the equivalent of that would be cutting 2 feature for every new one 18:47 sofar it's still hostage taking 18:48 sofar I don't negotiate with terrorists :) 18:48 rubenwardy \o/ 18:48 Mr_Pardison neither does the US government. 18:49 sofar well, nothing wrong with getting people to fix bug 18:49 sofar s 18:50 sofar but you will get better results with a different way of motivating developers 18:50 rubenwardy give core devs 10 up votes a month 18:50 rubenwardy give 2 more for every bug fix 18:50 Calinou wow, Minetest politics 18:50 Mr_Pardison carrot before using the stick? 18:50 rubenwardy and for $5 you can get 50 18:50 Mr_Pardison o/ Calinou 18:50 Calinou hi 18:50 rubenwardy (I hope people realise I'm joking) 18:51 sofar I would seriously consider spending a lot of time fixing engine bugs if there was a monetary reward of significance 18:52 rubenwardy so would most people 18:52 sofar 500$ for a significant bug... hell yeah 18:52 * Megaf gives sofar 10 cents 18:52 rubenwardy problem is there's no money in MT 18:52 sofar the thing is, for 10c, I'm gonna stay coding on what I find enjoyable 18:52 rubenwardy (also a bonus) 18:52 Megaf that could be as high as 2000 USD if I had a high paying job 18:52 Mr_Pardison quid pro quo's? 18:52 sofar since I barely have free time :) 18:52 rubenwardy what is 10c in p? 18:52 rubenwardy hmm 18:53 rubenwardy is a cent 0.01$? 18:53 Megaf yes... 18:53 Megaf cent = 1/100 18:53 Megaf 1 USD = 100 cents 18:53 Megaf or 1 EUR = 100 cents too 18:54 rubenwardy I mean, I'd be happy with that for this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/cd1140f69cf31c6c3885dd81c64e505ac1559487 19:04 rubenwardy I think we really need to work on making the project more friendly to new contributors, and better in code quality generally 19:04 rubenwardy there's zero documentation and 3000 line files 19:05 rubenwardy plus I found an uninitialised variable bug the other week (thanks to Shara) which just shouldn't have passed code review 19:05 rubenwardy \o/ 19:05 rubenwardy I also need time to work on Minetest \o/ 19:06 Mr_Pardison And I need to work on getting into college. 19:24 Fixer "making the project more friendly to new contributors, and better in code quality generally" i was saying just this for years, nobody cares 19:26 rubenwardy Fixer, it's hard 19:30 Fixer other projects are eager to accept contributions and new ideas, and here it is meh, will look into it, review in 10 years, rotten prs, etc 19:30 rubenwardy Fixer, the problem is that it's very hard to review code 19:30 rubenwardy as there are very little unit tests 19:31 Fixer other projects probably have very same situation, they just accept it as a fact and review what the can, and fix bugs along the way it seems 19:31 rubenwardy and there's code mess which makes it hard to understand 19:32 rubenwardy we need more people to do reviews and test PRs, even if they're not a dev 19:32 Fixer at least MTG development should be more open, engine is quite stable and does not need rushing but contributions should be rewarded 19:33 rubenwardy it doesn't help when you get PRs like this: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3653/commits 19:34 Mr_Pardison wb ThomasMonroe 19:34 ThomasMonroe thx Mr_Pardison 19:47 Fixer rubenwardy: merge @ pray 19:51 rubenwardy lol 19:51 rubenwardy yay quality control 19:52 rubenwardy we need Lua API unit tests, to make sure things don't break 20:01 twoelk making testing easier might generate more testers :-P 20:04 Fixer rubenwardy: someone who does PR needs to actually test it so it can be merged with less prayers 20:04 Fixer ._. 20:07 twoelk one does tend to be somewhat blind finding bugs in one's own code and may have worked on solving a certain issue keeping one from thinking of other usecases - there is a reason for the <many eyes> principle 20:10 Jordach tfw 94% first time on a Cisco module 20:10 Fixer then PRs should be small in size to ve reviewed easier 20:16 Calinou Jordach: sorry to hear that :D 20:16 Calinou (I mean, CIsco) 20:16 Calinou Cisco* 20:16 Megaf What did I miss? 20:18 Fixer not much 20:18 Mr_Pardison not much other than complaining about how blind we are to bugs in our own code and testing stuff. 20:18 Fixer "not much" feels strange 20:18 Megaf !seen paramat 20:18 MinetestBot Megaf: paramat was last seen at 2017-11-28 03:16:04 UTC on #minetest-hub 20:18 ShadowBot Megaf: I saw paramat in #minetest-hub 2 days, 14 hours, 57 minutes, and 29 seconds ago saying "i assume the server loads in the mapblock(s) that contain the requested volume" 20:19 Megaf we need ShadowBot removed 20:20 Jordach Calinou, got one item wrong 20:20 Jordach :^) 20:22 rubenwardy idiot 20:22 A_Hamilton My name Is Alexander Hamilton, and there's a million things I haven't done. But just you wait, just you wait. 20:23 Calinou I'm here to mine nodes and chew bubblegum, and I'm all outta gum. 20:23 A_Hamilton I shoot first and ask question never. 20:26 Fixer https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/11/28/181218/microsoft-sees-the-future-of-windows-10-as-sets-ditching-windows-for-a-tabbed-app-interface?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Slashdot%2Fslashdot+%28Slashdot%29 20:26 Fixer ---p 20:26 Fixer forgot to remove that utm_source crap 20:27 Fixer "HP Touchpoint Analytics Service" 20:27 Fixer everyone wants to sell me out 20:38 Fixer "Firefox’s Interface Is Still Extremely Customizable" i failed to move that hamburger to left side 20:38 Jordach thb Fixer something like that is super useful in enterprise env 20:39 Jordach tbh* 20:39 Jordach considering most users can't understand the start menu from their browser 20:39 Jordach (arsehole and elbow analogy) 20:39 Jordach something like that is fantastic for enterprise 20:39 Jordach as IT can just scroll back to find the documents without third party apps 20:40 ImNotHere Mozilla Firefox beta slightly broken on Debian Experimental https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/MfwHADI4/Screenshot%20from%202017-11-28%2020-38-36.png 20:40 Jordach >slightly broken 20:40 Jordach lolwat 20:40 Jordach you mean fucked so much it's gone through the earth to reach china, right 20:41 CloudyTiger I guess so Jordach 20:41 CloudyTiger Guess that's what you get when you get beta and experimental together 20:42 CloudyTiger ~$ firefox --version 20:42 CloudyTiger Mozilla Firefox 58.0 20:42 CloudyTiger --version still work tho 20:43 Fixer Jordach: i have no idea what you talking about 20:47 Jordach Fixer, think of sets as folders for actual x86 and files together 20:47 Jordach rather than say, recent jump lists 20:50 Fixer .______. 20:50 Jordach CloudyTiger, do mozilla keep hiring these guys 20:50 Jordach https://i.imgur.com/YAgCz9x.png 20:52 Jordach Fixer, https://i.imgur.com/izSJrRg.png 20:53 Fixer don't run as root 20:56 CloudyTiger lol Jordach 20:56 Jordach >builds a web browser including outside of webpage rendering in JS 20:56 Jordach that is why chrome is preferred 20:57 Jordach (and why node is hated by almost any C dev) 20:57 Jordach it's literally: programming: for dummies the language 21:02 Megaf well, Firefox 0.57 works as expected 21:02 Megaf no issues at all 21:03 Megaf reinstalling 58 now 21:03 rubenwardy occassionally pages freeze on 57, and switching to another tab and back causing spinning 21:03 benrob0329 Megaf: unless you run ALSA, in which case WebRTC is broke as all hell 21:03 rubenwardy sorry, spinning meaning the whole page is white and a spinning indicator appears 21:04 benrob0329 Also known as broke auto focus, if you have that sense of humor :P 21:05 Megaf 58 broken 21:05 Megaf purged all files to no avail 21:05 Jordach >using ALSA in 2017 21:07 Calinou https://media.hugo.pro/firefox_2017-11-28_22-05-29.png 21:07 Calinou world record on the Snake game of https://nim-lang.org/features.html :P 21:08 benrob0329 Jordach: everything else is either overkill or broken :^) 21:10 Jordach >Nim includes a first-class JavaScript backend 21:10 Jordach NORMIES GET OUT 21:31 Jordach https://jordach.net/images/yqnpufunwemzwurrr.png 21:31 Jordach benrob0329, ^ 21:41 Fixer Jordach: programmming of DOOM, user is DOOMED 21:52 paramat rubenwardy did i understand this correctly? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6699#issuecomment-347671425 21:53 rubenwardy paramat, imo CSM should be only for server-provided CSM mods, and be used for a builtin-like think 21:53 rubenwardy *thing 21:53 rubenwardy so it's not about it being controversial, but more I think that client features should mostly be C++ and CSM to allow mod client side prediction 21:54 paramat "and be used for" did you maean 'not'? 21:54 rubenwardy yeah, not 21:54 rubenwardy oops 21:55 paramat does the current situation mean that certain CSM functions cannot be disabled because vanilla MT relies on them? 21:56 rubenwardy hope not 21:56 paramat death formspec? 21:57 paramat that's what the discussion implies (maybe) 21:59 paramat anyway i agree CSM should be server-provided only, once that is added 22:05 Fixer firefox 57 was crashing for my friend though 22:07 paramat anyway, server owners please support https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6699 "Server setting for complete disable of client-provided CSM" 22:10 Shara paramat: big thumb up from me 22:12 Megaf From me too 22:12 Shara (also lua_api.txt = what in the world was anyone thinking :( ) 22:12 Shara (mess mess mess mess mess!) 22:12 benrob0329 I'm not a server owner, but it gets my support 22:13 Megaf I still thing we are just wasting neurons with this CSM thing, It should just get 100% removed from the code. All problems solved. 22:13 Megaf wasting neurons and time 22:13 Shara I'd be fine with that, and even happy to be honest 22:14 Shara Fix the mess and worry about additions like that once there is a solid base to build them on, then give them proper consideration to begin with 22:15 Fixer Megaf: nope, cheating was way before CSM ever existed - fly, noclip, automine, long reach, autoeat... 22:15 Megaf Fixer, I'm not even saying from a cheating perspective 22:15 Shara Fixer: pretty sure he just meant CSM mess solved 22:15 benrob0329 Fixer: But this doesn't require c++ editing 22:15 Shara We're well aware cheating isn't only due to CSM 22:16 Megaf paramat, well done in adding "High Priority" label 22:16 Megaf It gets some attention with that 22:16 Shara Needs an "absolutely vital label really :) 22:17 Megaf Can't disagree with that 22:17 benrob0329 new label "You Shall Not Pass!!" 22:17 Fixer *,,,,,,,,,,,* 22:18 Fixer new label "Please help make MTG great again" 22:18 Shara I'm wondering... 22:18 Shara If I work on lua_api.txt mess.... 22:18 Shara Will I end up making so many PRs that the devs get annoyed enough to ban me from making them? :D 22:19 Megaf for some reason the building of minetesetserver has been stuck at 96% for hours. http://paste.debian.net/998067/ 22:20 Fixer Shara: PRs are good, if Wuzzy gets banned, you will need to worry 22:20 Fixer feedback/contribution is always good 22:20 Fixer minetest just needs to bring walls down 22:21 Shara Not sure if you noticed the storm of silly trivial PRs I'm making lately 22:21 Shara But I feel like chipping some walls walls to pieces until they fall down all by themselves 22:21 Shara Documentation issues are ridiculous 22:22 Shara And people post issues about them, but where are the PRs to fix them? 22:22 Shara Can't they make PRs? 22:22 Fixer i don't see any storm in PRs 22:22 Shara (Hint: I know they can) 22:23 Shara Fixer: I more than doubled my total PRs to MT this month 22:23 Megaf Shara, I cant find any recent PR from you 22:23 Shara Megaf: odd, considering most recent PR merged was me 22:24 Fixer look closed PRs 22:24 Shara Look here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commits/master 22:24 Megaf Yep 22:24 Megaf they are all closed already 22:24 Fixer Shara: you had 11 commits this month, second place 22:24 Shara Main menu formsepc allignments and documentation related mostly 22:25 Fixer Shara: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pulse/monthly 22:25 Shara I had 7.. not sure how those stats work :) 22:25 Megaf well done in this one, https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6625 22:25 Megaf it's in the little things... 22:25 Shara I'll have another one in tonight 22:26 Shara Because I noticed lua_api.txt switches randomly between tabs and spaces for indentation 22:26 Megaf oh, that's what you were talking about in mess 22:26 Shara And now that I noticed, I can't even look at it without getting annoyed :D 22:27 benrob0329 tabs for life :PP 22:27 Shara But fixes that document will be long, slow, painful mess 22:27 Shara fixing* 22:27 Shara benrob0329: in this case, spaces, sadly 22:27 benrob0329 Shara: use an editor 22:27 Fixer i especially liked that fix for two buttons, OCD has been decreased 22:27 benrob0329 like vim, and retab 22:28 Shara benrob0329: uhhh... my editor is quite fine thanks 22:28 Shara Fixer: which fix? 22:28 benrob0329 heck, if its spaces then it should be even easier 22:28 Fixer Shara: probably not yours 22:28 Megaf Shara, luaapti.txt uses mostly spaces 22:28 benrob0329 just convert tabs to spaces (after setting tab length) 22:28 Shara well, it's about 5k lines using spaces to 50ish using tabs 22:28 Megaf I rather have it all in tabs tho 22:28 Shara I prefer tabs generally, but not going to make the devs review 5k lines of indentation changes 22:29 Megaf just use sed 22:29 Megaf if that's even possible ot use sed for that 22:29 Shara I love how everyone thing automated answers fix everything 22:29 benrob0329 Shara: they make life easier 22:30 Shara Doesn't work here though 22:30 Shara For example... github displays tabs and spaces (4 in this case) differently 22:30 Shara So in some cases we've had people use incorrect levels of indentation to make things look like they allign, when they don't 22:31 Shara When you convert all into spaces (or tabs) they no longer align 22:31 Megaf For compatibility spaces is a better choice 22:31 Shara SO you actually do need to look at it 22:31 Megaf since every editor will give a different amount of space for tabs 22:32 benrob0329 Shara: what is a line with tabs? 22:32 Megaf I almost went crazy last week with identations, my web git used one amount of space, nano used different amount of space and the IDE I was using yet a different amount of space for tabs 22:32 Megaf so I just removed all tabs from my code and swtiched to spaced 22:32 Megaf spaces* 22:32 Fixer compile time 22:33 Shara thankfully no need to compile .txt files :) 22:33 benrob0329 Megaf: thats why you use one editor, or configure each editor to display tabs the same 22:33 Shara ^ 22:33 benrob0329 now I may go crazy over your code's indentation 22:34 * benrob0329 posted a file: lua_api.txt (227KB) <https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/oJrIytYejcFcEnSxLJDgqDtJ> 22:34 benrob0329 Shara: ^^ 22:34 benrob0329 that should reduce the amount of work needed to fix it 22:35 Shara Not seeing your point benrob0329 22:35 Shara It's easy to fix 22:35 Megaf you will not find this piece of code benrob0329 22:35 Megaf I can't find it myself :P 22:35 Megaf Don't worry 22:35 Shara I just rather fix it properly instead of the sloppy approach of find/replace which people seem to think works 22:35 Megaf I don't even remember what I had written it for 22:35 benrob0329 Shara: very well 22:35 Fixer "'E'ating soup from a tin located in a dragged shopping cart dumps the remainder of the soup on the floor. [Bug] " If only MTG was that DEEP 22:36 Fixer oh, i found a nice tag: Easy Fix, we should use it 22:37 Megaf That's the type of title I'd use https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6701 22:37 Megaf "Debug output looks strange" ^ 22:37 paramat lua api should indent with spaces, as is the norm for txt docs 22:38 Megaf that ^ 22:38 Megaf :+1: 22:38 Shara paramat: expect PR for this before I sleep 22:38 Fixer you sure? 22:38 Shara :) 22:39 paramat cool, i'll merge it before any conflicts 22:39 Shara thanks 22:39 benrob0329 Why is it a .txt is if is formatted in markdown? 22:39 Megaf Shara, can you add luizrpgluiz to voice list please? 22:39 Shara will be ready soon 22:39 benrob0329 *if it is 22:39 Fixer benrob0329: so it can be opened in any OS 22:40 Megaf another veteran and sometimes modder 22:40 Shara Megaf: don't see them? 22:40 Fixer it is pretty much plain txt 22:40 paramat yeah many reasons 22:40 Megaf He is coming 22:40 Shara Get them in here and will add 22:40 paramat MD makes it a pain for devs 22:40 Megaf must be AFK or sotmhing 22:40 Fixer i wonder if it is possible to use name.md.txt and get over it :p 22:40 Shara paramat: I'm just double checking a few lines at the moment, because some are weird once I fix the indents 22:41 Megaf Shara, here he is ^ 22:42 paramat the next job might be line length down to 80-90 22:42 Shara paramat: sure, but that will be more time consuming 22:42 rubenwardy <Fixer> benrob0329: so it can be opened in any OS 22:42 rubenwardy not a valid reason 22:42 rubenwardy as for Windows we could just rename it 22:42 Fixer plain text editing for some reason gives me flashbacks of that printing from DOS to laser printer times (via Windows) 22:42 rubenwardy the reason is that it's currently harder to read 22:42 rubenwardy <paramat> MD makes it a pain for devs 22:42 rubenwardy also not true 22:42 Shara ^ 22:43 Shara I'm actually using MD previews in some cases to check things 22:43 rubenwardy yeah 22:43 paramat it's hard to work with in github 22:43 Shara plus other documentation is in MD 22:43 Fixer rubenwardy: rename during building? 22:43 rubenwardy the issue is that there are lots of long sections, and github doesn't support anchors to line 22:43 Shara So this not being MD is rather silly 22:43 rubenwardy Fixer, no, when making the release for Windows 22:43 Amaz When it's formated as MD it's much easier to read for reference. 22:43 Fixer or that 22:43 luizrpgluiz hi 22:44 paramat most docs are txt, only client api was stupidly made md 22:44 Megaf Hi luizrpgluiz 22:44 luizrpgluiz hi all :) 22:44 Fixer running newest git 22:44 paramat i can't link someone to a line in a MD file at github 22:44 rubenwardy it's also really hard to search the docs, as find finds all occurrences, not the relevant ones 22:44 Megaf Thanks Shara 22:45 Shara Hello luizrpgluiz, and welcome 22:45 luizrpgluiz i am luizinho in brtest server 22:45 benrob0329 So..we make the docs look bad because Github sucks 22:45 rubenwardy essentially 22:45 Megaf !server brtest 22:45 MinetestBot Megaf: No results 22:45 benrob0329 Makes sense 22:45 Megaf luizrpgluiz, is the server running right now? 22:45 luizrpgluiz no Megaf 22:45 Megaf ok 22:45 rubenwardy not being in MD is the least of lua_api.txt's problem 22:46 luizrpgluiz server off 22:46 paramat i find MD less readable at github 22:46 Megaf MD is amazing, if you dont using ** and * and *** for bold and stuff, and instead use underline for that 22:46 Megaf like 22:46 Megaf This is a title 22:46 Megaf -------------- 22:47 Megaf that's readable ^ 22:47 luizrpgluiz yes 22:48 Fixer busted https://i.imgur.com/39DNN9n.png 22:48 Shara I can read MD or txt equally easily, but much prefer to look at MD 22:49 paramat MD also fills the txt file with a mess of symbols 22:49 Shara Since what we have now is basically MD symbols as txt, it already does that 22:50 paramat anyway, is there a way i can link to a line in an MD file at github, or display it as txt? 22:50 Shara Hmm, not sure 22:50 Shara Never tried, but that's a good point 22:54 Shara https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/6705 22:54 paramat search reads the MD file text but then you can't click the line to go to the line in the file 22:54 Shara paramat / rubenwardy ^ 22:54 Amaz You can display it as text by clicking on the "Raw" button at the top of the file, although that isn't like the github txt viewer. (e.g. https://raw.githubusercontent.com/minetest/minetest/master/doc/client_lua_api.md) 22:55 paramat yes but i can't link to a line 22:55 Amaz Yup 22:55 Amaz That's the main problem 22:55 paramat these points alone make txt preferable 22:55 Shara Sheer length of this file is the problem if you can't link to a line 22:55 paramat can't use search, can't link 22:56 rubenwardy need to find out how to make https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/lua_api.html load faster 22:56 rubenwardy that's the main reason I don't use it 22:56 paramat this is why almost all our docs are txt 22:56 rubenwardy plus the formatting isn't great :( 22:57 Shara if docs are meant to be txt, can I suggest switching the other one over to txt as well? 22:57 Shara Consistency really... 22:57 paramat well i'm going to do that 22:57 rubenwardy go ahead 22:57 rubenwardy +1 22:57 Shara You or me or anyone... I don't mind. But I feel like kicking up a fuss about the mess the docs were in 22:57 Shara are in* 22:57 paramat perhaps client_lua_api.md.txt ? 22:57 rubenwardy MD is the least of the issues though 22:58 Shara True 22:58 Shara But then it's a quick thing to change 22:58 benrob0329 Rewrite in LaTeX :P 22:58 paramat that file is another part of the arrogance of csm development 22:59 paramat ok i'll do the md file PR 22:59 Shara Anyway, I'm literally planning to go through PRs that have been marked documentation related and to try and fix things 22:59 Amaz paramat: Wouldn't client_lua_api.txt be more consistent with lua_api.txt? 22:59 * Shara agrees with Amaz 23:01 sofar I have no issues with .md, but it seems easier to read in `vi` than on github :D 23:02 Shara Hi sofar :P 23:02 paramat ok yes .txt 23:03 paramat i'll make that PR now and merge 6705 with it 23:04 Shara Thanks 23:04 benrob0329 sofar: its even easier in vim :PP 23:04 Fixer is there any hacking way to stop at least water blinking when looking undersea via glass? 23:05 Fixer hackish* 23:05 Fixer even dirty way 23:05 Fixer just stop it 23:06 benrob0329 Fixer: fix z buffer 23:07 Fixer thats massive 23:07 Fixer maybe there are more easier and dirtier methods 23:07 sofar Shara: I just got back from picking doors and handles... 23:07 paramat opaque water 23:08 sofar remove all wayter 23:08 Shara ...doors and handles? 23:08 benrob0329 sofar: remove all rendering 23:08 sofar wireframe 23:08 benrob0329 Heck, remove Minetest 23:09 benrob0329 Then we have no bugs at all :D 23:09 benrob0329 Wait, why dont we just spray it with some pesticides? 23:11 sofar Shara: and sidelights, and locks/hinges, and thresholds, and... 23:11 Shara You are now reminding me of the building work I have planned over christmas... 23:12 Shara If only real building worked like MT. 23:12 Megaf paramat, you didnt give an approval on #6705 23:12 Megaf And I thought "Trivial" could be merged with a single approve 23:13 Shara I think him saying he will merge it is good enough to cover that :P 23:14 Fixer paramat: in a way, yes 23:14 rubenwardy Megaf, only bug fixes technically 23:15 rubenwardy but no one follows that really 23:15 Megaf Well, it is kinda of a bug 23:15 Megaf it's a typo bug, tab was typed instead of space, it happens... 23:16 Shara Typo implies accidental but really knew better.. kind of 23:16 Shara This is just no one caring to check stuff at all 23:16 Fixer nah, opaque water is even weirder :/ 23:17 Megaf Fixer, Shader issue 23:17 Megaf ? 23:17 Shara Though lua_api is actually well written compared to some things I've worked on. 23:17 Shara It's just the length and level of knowledge to check if everything is correct which is a bit of a barrier, or I'd have tried to do things with it by now 23:17 Fixer ImNotThere: no, alpha z-sorting issue 23:17 ImNotThere Fixer, GitHub issue open already? 23:18 Fixer ImNotThere: since ages 23:18 Fixer it is known, but not easy to solve 23:18 Fixer it is one of big graphical downsides of minetest 23:18 paramat 'trivial' PRs can be merged on a single approval, so it doesn't need mine, but added +1 anyway 23:20 ImNotThere Fixer, What's your GitHub user? 23:20 Fixer ImNotThere: try guessing 23:21 rubenwardy xXxFixerxXx 23:22 Fixer https://github.com/supertuxkart/stk-code/issues/1448 hah, not sure if totally related 23:22 ImNotThere well, there's no issues by Fixer nor Anonymvs 23:22 ImNotThere like, ever 23:22 Fixer i have different nickname, you will find it 23:24 ImNotThere Wuzzy2? 23:25 ImNotThere lol 23:25 ImNotThere cant find 23:25 ImNotThere well, time to go, brb 23:26 Fixer it seems irrlicht can do transperent sorting, but on per scene node (?) 23:33 Fixer i have provocative question 23:33 Fixer add command line parameter to specify /mods folder for minetest 23:34 Fixer since mod/modpacks conflicting not solved and nobody cares, this workaround can be nice idea* (potentially) 23:34 rubenwardy sounds good 23:35 rubenwardy the command line interface needs work generally 23:35 rubenwardy it's inconsistent 23:41 paramat ok merging those 2 now 23:42 Shara :) 23:52 paramat ahh such a relief, i can actually work with that file now without frustration 23:53 Fixer found few bugs in digall mod 23:53 paramat MD format is fine in docs, but they have to be .txt 23:56 * sofar out for work thing 23:57 sofar paramat: only thing now is that editors will not properly markup the file 23:57 sofar so it's a productivity loss, IMHO 23:57 Shara if they don't meet the standard for a document, devs should request them to correct it before merging, just as they would with code. 23:58 Fixer sofar: door handles made in China as usual? 23:58 Fixer sofar: just curious if that cancer is in USA too 23:58 sofar :so $VIMRUNTIME/syntax/markdown.vim 23:59 sofar that's really cumbersome... 23:59 sofar Fixer: no, my house will not have much China in it, since it's pretty much entirely custom