Time Nick Message
00:01 tsquar3d Can you make lockable doors on the europe.minetest.org server?
00:01 VanessaE no clue
00:02 VanessaE never played on that server
00:13 OldCoder tsquar3d, what mod would that be?
00:13 bulletrulz hi
00:14 tsquar3d OldCoder: What would what be?
00:14 OldCoder <tsquar3d> Can you make lockable doors on the europe.minetest.org server?
00:16 tsquar3d Are you asking what the server is or what lockable doors are?
00:18 VanessaE he's asking which mod provides such.
00:18 VanessaE OldCoder is quite aware of what the server is. :-)
00:18 OldCoder Indeed
00:19 OldCoder Indicate the mod you wish to inquire about
00:19 OldCoder Its presence or absence will be revealed
00:19 OldCoder Actually I should update http://minetest.org/ to document Europe
00:20 * OldCoder shrugs
00:20 OldCoder If you wish lockable doors it will be arranged
00:20 OldCoder
00:22 tsquar3d I do wish lockable doors. :-)
00:22 tsquar3d Sorry.
00:22 tsquar3d Ha.
00:34 OldCoder tsquar3d, If it is not a problem for other mods it shall be so
00:35 OldCoder We're big on backwards compatibility and not breaking everything
00:35 tsquar3d Wow.. cool.
00:38 OldCoder tsquar3d, Somebody made a mesecons door but I don't think that's what you mean. See if you can find a link to such a mod. If one exists we'll evaluate it.
00:38 tsquar3d Ah.. okay.
00:38 OldCoder Somebody else is using pistons; possibly in a similar way
00:39 tsquar3d Right now I am working on a blender model of a Dungeon Master. :-)
00:39 OldCoder You are the Very Model of a Modern Major Blender
00:39 OldCoder ^ obscure reference
00:40 tsquar3d Ha.. thanks, I think.
01:32 LandMine_ VanessaE have you forgiven me?
01:32 VanessaE ...
01:35 LandMine_ ill take that as a yes
01:35 LandMine_ dont worry i have forgiven you too
01:40 Kacey hello
01:41 Kacey anybody alive?
01:41 VanessaE nno
01:41 VanessaE the channel's dead.
01:41 LandMine ooh
01:43 Kacey sorry had to do that out of adhd
01:43 LandMine_ ok?
01:43 Kacey this channel does seem dead
01:44 LandMine_ it is
01:44 Kacey why dont you change your nick back?
01:46 Kacey to just LandMine
01:47 LandMine_ cause im to lazy
01:48 Kacey lol
01:49 LandMine_ yeh
01:49 Kacey well im going to get off for a bit
01:49 LandMine_ so Kacey is aggies your brotheR?
01:49 LandMine_ ohh ok
01:49 Kacey aggies is my brother
03:00 OldCoder Muadtralk, Hi
03:00 Muadtralk greetings
03:00 VanessaE evening OldCoder, Muadtralk
03:31 OldCoder I am asleep; back in a few hours or on Tuesday
04:16 VanessaE in answer to his previous question, no.
04:19 VanessaE not after the topic of his I just deleted (showing how to do rollback-proof griefing by exploiting the well-known bug in sapling->tree growth)
04:26 VanessaE bbl
06:20 ruskie *yawn*
06:24 ruskie OldCoder, possibly this for lockable doors(and I'd like that as well) http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3653 , also I use constructors from technic for doors but will need to add a "lockable" button so that only the player can use the button
06:52 bulletrulz hey
13:32 NekoGloop MC Technic, y u so laggy.
13:55 OldCoder Hello
13:55 OldCoder RealBadAngel, babyface has reported a possibly significant Technic issue. If she shows up would you be willing to ask her about it?
13:56 OldCoder ruskie, I am headed out on an early errand (6:00am here) and will review that when I return
14:31 PilzAdam Hello everyone!
14:34 OldCoder Hello back
14:42 RealBadAngel hellou Minetest
14:43 RealBadAngel Oldcoder its mesecons issue
14:43 PilzAdam hi RBA
14:43 RealBadAngel sticky pistons are buggy
14:43 OldCoder RealBadAngel, should they be patched out?
14:43 OldCoder They are causing damage in one world
14:44 OldCoder Is there a simple way to disable them?
14:44 RealBadAngel pistons?
14:44 RealBadAngel its a needed element
14:44 RealBadAngel need to be fixed just
14:45 OldCoder Suggestions?
14:45 OldCoder I think I need to disable them
14:45 OldCoder Until the fix is made
14:45 OldCoder They are damaging a world right now
14:45 RealBadAngel no you dont need to
14:45 RealBadAngel how?
14:45 OldCoder Speak with Baby Face
14:45 OldCoder When she is here
14:45 OldCoder If there is no solution I'd like to disable them
14:45 RealBadAngel wait, wait
14:45 OldCoder She has reported something that sounds dangerous
14:46 RealBadAngel i just bug report and you want to kill the patient
14:46 RealBadAngel *got
14:46 RealBadAngel bugs are found thx to the users
14:47 RealBadAngel thx to that we can make game better
14:48 OldCoder Sure
14:49 OldCoder I leave it to you and her; but the problem sounds serious right now
14:49 OldCoder The point is not killing the patient; it's quarantine
14:54 RealBadAngel not really
14:54 RealBadAngel its not world devastatin or something
14:55 RealBadAngel its duplication bug, minecraft seen dozens of duplications issues and lives
14:57 OldCoder RealBadAngel, what she's told me sounds pretty destructive
14:57 RealBadAngel i need to wait for babyface now, so she can show me how exacly it works
14:57 OldCoder Sure; thank you
14:57 RealBadAngel then i will be able to fix it
14:57 OldCoder Your time is appreciated
14:57 RealBadAngel when i know how it works
14:58 RealBadAngel how i do know that bells can be heard, but i have no glue which church
15:10 OldCoder Heh
15:10 OldCoder :-)
15:15 ruskie hehe
15:17 ruskie RealBadAngel, how's the MV stuff coming along?
15:19 ruskie RealBadAngel, also suggestion: wood planks or wood -> grinder -> sawdust -> sawdust+glue -> MDF blocks
15:20 ruskie and MDF+dye -> coloured MDF blocks
15:29 RealBadAngel need to test them a bit before can go public
15:29 RealBadAngel i do have some nasty glitches
15:29 * VanessaE pokes RealBadAngel and PilzAdam just for fun ;)
15:30 RealBadAngel mdf idea is quite nice
15:30 RealBadAngel but propably more for furniture mod :)
15:30 RealBadAngel hi VanessaE
15:30 VanessaE hi all
15:30 PilzAdam hi VanessaE
15:31 RealBadAngel with mdf you can make Ikea mod ;)
15:31 VanessaE G*d forbid
15:31 VanessaE every-fricken-one uses MDF here for stuff you'd think would be cheaper if done with solid wood
15:31 * ruskie likes ikea stuff
15:31 VanessaE and as soon as water hits it? bye bye structural integrity
15:31 RealBadAngel best thing to buy at Ikea imho are hotdogs
15:32 VanessaE RealBadAngel: as long as the MDF you have in mind degrades back into sawdust when exposed to water, it'll be realistic ;)
15:32 ruskie ikea doesn't use pure mdf but engineered stuff with high density on the outside and medium density inside
15:32 RealBadAngel whatever, still mass production shit :)
15:33 ruskie I can get the same shit from a local independant
15:33 ruskie at twice-to-three times the price
15:33 RealBadAngel two or three times at ikea, and you will go for real furniture
15:33 RealBadAngel not cartoon ones
15:34 ruskie ???
15:34 ruskie most of the furniture I have is from ikea
15:34 ruskie frankly the quality is better than the local stuff
15:34 RealBadAngel most of the furniture i have is made of wood
15:35 ruskie so is most of the stuff I have
15:35 RealBadAngel i do even have a cupboard made before world war 2
15:35 ruskie just not solid wood
15:35 VanessaE most of what we have is MDF :-/
15:35 ruskie frankly solid wood isn't all that better than mdf for 90% of stuff
15:35 VanessaE unless you count the wood the house's frame is built from.
15:36 ruskie kitchen cabinets work just fine with mdf
15:36 RealBadAngel tell that to 50-60 yrs old wooden furniture
15:36 ruskie as do properly constructed tables
15:36 RealBadAngel still lookin way better than any ikea shit
15:36 ruskie the only solid wood thing I have and will continue to have is a bed
15:36 ruskie RealBadAngel, frankly I like minimalistic stuff that ikea produces
15:37 ruskie I don't like all the fancy crowning and molding on most solid wood products
15:37 ruskie and I really can't complain about the quality
15:37 RealBadAngel then go to small factory that produces furniture on demand
15:37 ruskie RealBadAngel, and pay 20 times what costs me?
15:37 ruskie no thans
15:37 ruskie thanks
15:38 RealBadAngel they will made you whatever you want
15:38 RealBadAngel 20 times?
15:38 ruskie yeah
15:38 RealBadAngel not here in Poland
15:38 RealBadAngel maybe 2, 3 times more
15:38 ruskie still too much
15:38 ruskie for something that will fail one way or another
15:38 ruskie also ikea gives me the option of easily changing stuff after a few years if I get fed up with it
15:39 RealBadAngel for a piece of furniture that will propably serve your children too?
15:39 ruskie I don't want it to serve my children
15:39 ruskie I want it to serve me and my tastes
15:39 ruskie not someone elses tastes
15:39 RealBadAngel i rather prefer solid products
15:39 ruskie well this table I got from ikea is solid enough
15:39 RealBadAngel pay more and have good one
15:39 ruskie I can stand on it with my 130kgs
15:40 VanessaE I built a ~ 2.4m x 1.2m table recently from LDF and solid wood studs. I can stand my 177 kg on it.
15:41 VanessaE try that with a table that size made entirely from MDF. ain't gonna happen.
15:41 ruskie this one is 1.6x2.0m
15:41 ruskie but it has a steel construction underneath and legs that bear the weight
15:41 RealBadAngel mdf is just and idea what to make from leftovers when using real wood
15:42 RealBadAngel instead of throw it away, as garbage, they are makin MDF
15:42 VanessaE see? that's cheating. this is entirely made from wood, put together with good, decent screws. Total cost? about US $25.
15:42 ruskie well I don't much care for just wood
15:42 ruskie I like combinations
15:42 RealBadAngel of trash
15:42 RealBadAngel :)
15:43 ruskie especially where it makes sense
15:43 RealBadAngel most modern materials are just trash and recycled ones
15:43 ruskie well that's good
15:43 PilzAdam yesterday it was 5:2 for not renewable lava
15:43 VanessaE RealBadAngel: which to be fair is a good thing.
15:43 PilzAdam anything changed about that?
15:43 ruskie preserves the forests etc...
15:43 RealBadAngel yes, but still
15:44 RealBadAngel thanks to it youre forced to buy stuff all over again
15:44 VanessaE "preserves the forests", meanwhile trees are a renewable resource
15:44 VanessaE the problem isn't how much we use - the problem is how much we *put back*
15:44 VanessaE (as in re-plant)
15:44 ruskie RealBadAngel, well so far I haven't been forced to re-buy anything
15:44 RealBadAngel lucky you
15:45 VanessaE hey, Jordach.
15:45 ruskie and I had sides in the kitchen soaked in water, wine and I don't know what else
15:45 Jordach hey VanessaE
15:45 ruskie it's still holding together
15:45 VanessaE ruskie: most people who end up with some shit made with MDF will have replaced it at some point because it just doesn't have the longevity of solid wood.
15:45 RealBadAngel i would even risk to say that youre just lookin at your ikea at home and not actually using them :)
15:45 ruskie RealBadAngel, sorry I cook a lot so that's a no
15:46 ruskie my tables are host to a soldering iron and a lot of other tools
15:46 ruskie and computer parts and I don't know what else
15:46 RealBadAngel all that on MDF?
15:46 ruskie as said ikea doesn't use pure mdf
15:47 RealBadAngel i know what ikea is selling
15:47 ruskie but yeah
15:47 ruskie all tables from ikea
15:47 RealBadAngel cheap shit for happy consumers
15:47 ruskie heh
15:47 RealBadAngel im not happy consumer
15:47 ruskie well in the end happy customers are what matters
15:47 ruskie sorry I don't consider myself a consumer
15:48 ruskie I think before I buy
15:48 RealBadAngel vanessa how was called the comedian with show bout happy consumers?
15:48 VanessaE um
15:48 RealBadAngel he is dead
15:48 VanessaE maybe Penn and Teller?
15:48 RealBadAngel remember? we all livin in the third mall to the sun
15:48 VanessaE or George Carlin, both are known for such stuff.
15:49 RealBadAngel i will try to find that show
15:49 VanessaE and two of the three names above, I believe, are dead.
15:49 RealBadAngel got him
15:49 RealBadAngel Bill Hicks
15:49 ruskie specifically I have a lot of expedits, kitchen and galant tables
15:50 ruskie RealBadAngel, I was the same as you before I tried some pieces from ikea
15:50 ruskie I considered them producing shit and crap that would just break
15:50 RealBadAngel when i was livinin in germany i used to assemble Ikea shit for german folks
15:50 RealBadAngel 50euro per piece of shit
15:50 Jordach RealBadAngel - extortion?
15:51 ruskie I can't make that claim anymore... I'm happy with the quality for the price it's offered... I have yet to have anything break or somehow fail
15:51 Jordach lolIkea
15:51 RealBadAngel they paid me more sometimes that the piece of furniture was worth, just for assembling it
15:51 VanessaE maybe it's just that the shit furniture by ikea and co. make it to everyone else except certain locales
15:51 ruskie RealBadAngel, yeah I would believe that as someone doing that professionally you would see more of the bad than someone constructing the stuff for themselves
15:52 RealBadAngel i do work with doors, windows etc
15:52 ruskie VanessaE, well the kitchen offered by the local quality companies is the same quality as ikea... except 3 times as more expensive
15:52 RealBadAngel so i know materials that are used
15:52 * Jordach knows a little carpentry
15:52 RealBadAngel what is shit and whats good
15:53 ruskie RealBadAngel, also how long ago was this?
15:53 RealBadAngel what?
15:53 ruskie the building ikea stuff for customers?
15:53 VanessaE the only carpentry I know is "use solid wood, glue, and screws and build the fucker to last.", not "use MDF, nails, and screw cams and just make sure it lasts over 90 days."
15:53 RealBadAngel several yrs ago
15:53 RealBadAngel i was livin in Berlin 2005-2009
15:54 RealBadAngel assemblin a stupid desk was worth 50 euro
15:54 ruskie well depends what you did
15:55 ruskie some desks are a PITA
15:55 RealBadAngel just RTFM
15:55 ruskie but yeah FM tends to work
15:55 RealBadAngel and used my screwdriver
15:56 ruskie I wish I had a desk like I have at home also at work
15:56 ruskie because the custom crap from a carpenter there can't stand up straight most of the time
15:56 RealBadAngel the desk im using right now is circa 20 yrs old
15:56 RealBadAngel and will serve another 20 for sure
15:57 RealBadAngel like the belt for trousers i got on my 18th birthday
15:57 ruskie well it works if you're happy with things not changing much
15:57 RealBadAngel im using it all the time
15:57 RealBadAngel military one
15:57 ruskie I'm happy with what I have atm
15:58 ruskie but I might not be in 5 years time
15:58 RealBadAngel propably will live longer than i
16:00 RealBadAngel the point is, nowadays producers are not interested in makin products that will serve you for a lifetime
16:00 RealBadAngel theyre using worse materials, calculated to serve you just warranty time
16:01 RealBadAngel so you will behave like a good child and go buy new one
16:01 ruskie I am aware of that
16:01 RealBadAngel all that started with BIC
16:02 RealBadAngel one time shavin machines and ball points
16:02 RealBadAngel now the idea is everywhere
16:02 ruskie but chances are I'll replace most of the furniture before it will die
16:03 RealBadAngel notice that even most of the stuff if you would even want to, its impossible to repair
16:03 RealBadAngel its designed to be single use
16:04 RealBadAngel with computers its even worse
16:04 ruskie I rather spend extra money on good food than on material things
16:04 RealBadAngel it may actually be working still
16:04 RealBadAngel but you wont get drivers or run new soft
16:04 ruskie only on wincrap and mac
16:05 RealBadAngel yup, amd on linux refused to support my 1,5yr old card
16:05 Jordach RealBadAngel - the futon im sitting on right now is 2yr old and the only thing broken is one bar where my fat ass has been sitting
16:05 Jordach (for the last two years)
16:06 ruskie my solid wood or MDF beds tend to break
16:06 ruskie doesn't matter the material it will break
16:07 ruskie to much weight and I roll a lot in my sleep
16:10 RealBadAngel VanessaE, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoSSUBqBi6k
16:10 OldCoder <ruskie> I rather spend extra money on good food than on material things
16:10 VanessaE I'll watch some other time, enjoying the quiet right now
16:10 OldCoder Food is material and quite tasty material at that
16:10 VanessaE (save for the fans anyway)
16:11 ruskie OldCoder, hehe
16:12 RealBadAngel VanessaE, look for his whole show
16:13 RealBadAngel its just great
16:15 RealBadAngel the show is called "Sane man" i believe
16:23 jin_xi hi all
16:23 jin_xi Hey VanessaE, hows the kitten?
16:23 VanessaE she's doing well
16:24 VanessaE A total nutball with boundless energy.
16:24 jin_xi lol, yesterday i was working in a clients garden
16:24 jin_xi punching trees and stuff
16:24 jin_xi and his kitten constantly climbed up my legs
16:25 Jordach <VanessaE> A total nutball with boundless energy. did you mean: every cat on earth?
16:25 VanessaE Jordach: haha
16:25 VanessaE jin_xi: awwwww
16:26 Calinou <jin_xi> punching trees and stuff
16:26 Calinou playing too much minecraft/minetest hurts
16:26 Calinou don't punch trees IRL :|
16:26 VanessaE lol
16:30 OldCoder Calinou, speak for yourself
16:30 OldCoder You never heard of Tree Boxing?
16:30 OldCoder I think it's a big thing Down Under
16:30 OldCoder :p
16:32 sokomine as far as furniture is concerned: ikea used to have nice stuff years ago. but nowerdays they don't have the furniture i want
16:32 PilzAdam do people want steel doors?
16:32 OldCoder Steel will be Real
16:32 OldCoder Quite a Deal
16:32 OldCoder I Feel
16:32 ruskie PilzAdam, yes
16:33 OldCoder It's worthwhile
16:33 OldCoder People will smile
16:33 OldCoder At Real Deal Steel
16:33 OldCoder :-)
16:33 ruskie hehe
16:33 sokomine spent a holiday in a room with furniture out of real wood (how do you call wood from needle trees?) and didn't want anything other afterwards :-)
16:33 OldCoder Pine
16:33 OldCoder sokomine, pine is fine I want mine
16:33 ruskie well pine being just one of the ones
16:33 ruskie isn't it?
16:33 OldCoder He was asking about the name
16:34 OldCoder Of the furniture he'd tried
16:34 ruskie if I wanted to have solid wood furniture I'd probably go with larch myself
16:35 ruskie I wish there were more trees in minetest
16:35 ruskie and more wood
16:35 ruskie I don't much care for this generic wood block
16:35 jin_xi mauvebic has some nice wooden panels
16:36 sokomine steel doors are useful. addi did one on the kingarthur server combined with an early stage of my locks-mod
16:36 ruskie sokomine, add mesecons buttons/switches/etc... locks mod
16:36 sokomine ah, pine. but there are two types: kiefer and fichte. only one of them is pine i think
16:37 * ruskie prefers to use alpine for mail ;)
16:38 sokomine try pilzadams farming_plus. it adds nice banana- and cacao-trees. the fruits shine in the dark. really nice sight. and the rubber trees from farming are nice as well
16:38 ruskie sokomine, they lack different wood
16:38 ruskie as in wood block and the wooden planks
16:38 ruskie it's all the same wood
16:43 Calinou v<sokomine> as far as furniture is concerned: ikea used to have nice stuff years ago. but nowerdays they don't have the furniture i want
16:44 Calinou buy books from amazon (ubuntu's shopping lens), make furniture with.
16:46 Jordach lolUbuntu1210
16:48 sokomine hmm. there are some mods that add diffrent wood as well
16:50 sokomine calinou: thanks, but now i'm happy with my furniture :-) nice thicker pine(?)wood (not as thin as the cheap ones but still only relatively cheap wood and not oak or something like that)
16:50 Calinou Jordach: heh
16:50 Calinou the only people that whine about it are experienced people
16:50 Calinou no newbies whined about it
16:50 sokomine about what?
16:50 Calinou harshlinuxians attack ubuntu; that's normal, let them be
16:50 Calinou we don't do that the other way
16:50 Calinou (rarely)
16:51 * Calinou is one of the 5 people in the world that dislike arch
16:51 sokomine ah, that :-)
16:51 * ruskie isn't a fan as well
16:51 Calinou the 4 others being mark shuttleworth, jeff bezos, tim cook, steve ballmer, obama
16:51 Calinou :p
16:51 Calinou erm, that is 5.
16:52 * Jordach hates Arch
16:53 jin_xi how one can end up hating something like a software he is not forced to use is beyond me
16:53 Calinou true
16:53 jin_xi let the hate flow through you young padawan
16:53 OldCoder <Calinou> harshlinuxians attack ubuntu; that's normal, let them be
16:53 OldCoder That is a fun term
16:53 OldCoder I will note it
16:53 OldCoder Harsh Linux
16:53 Calinou I quit hating unity a while ago, since I started using xfce
16:53 OldCoder I wonder what the distro includes
16:54 Lumpio- It's spelled arch
16:54 Calinou nothing, just chroot and ping
16:54 OldCoder Ah
16:54 Calinou to install: ping www.google.com
16:54 OldCoder No /usr/bin/hate then
16:54 Calinou chroot /usr/bin/hate
16:54 Calinou there, you installed arch
16:54 OldCoder Very well
16:54 * OldCoder laughs
16:57 OldCoder Hmm somebody elsewhere has just christened me EmCee Coder
17:02 jin_xi who's the G
17:02 OldCoder G?
17:04 jin_xi Gangsta...
17:05 PilzAdam https://github.com/PilzAdam/minetest_game/commit/9e2b22b50b3ef39a9ad9552b4cddd273cafa16d7
17:05 PilzAdam ^ should i bring this upstream?
17:05 sokomine what's in it?
17:05 PilzAdam its a new doors mod
17:06 PilzAdam it is 3D and easy
17:06 PilzAdam + to texture
17:06 PilzAdam it also adds steel doors
17:06 VanessaE PilzAdam: you should use the doors code from Homedecor instead - it is far simpler than this.
17:06 Calinou PilzAdam: +1 push to upstream
17:07 Calinou VanessaE: does your mod have automatic "double door" placement?
17:07 sokomine there are a number of door mods out. perhaps some can be combined
17:07 VanessaE no, but you can flip doors in the crafting grid. double-door placement would be fairly easy to add I'm sure.
17:07 PilzAdam sokomine, my mod combines all the good features
17:07 PilzAdam VanessaE, my mod has auto flip
17:07 sokomine what does your mod do?
17:07 Calinou PilzAdam: stick to 16x16 textures for pure brown/gray
17:07 Calinou texture alias will go less funky
17:09 PilzAdam this would just waste memory
17:09 Calinou optipng your textures :p
17:09 sokomine hm, the homedecor mod of vanessa certainly has a lot of nice doors to offer with good textures
17:09 Calinou we should optipng all the default textures...
17:10 Calinou makes them much lighter since they'll be 8 bit-colored
17:10 Calinou (you can't have more than 256 colors in a 16x16 texture..)
17:12 jin_xi su
17:13 Calinou PilzAdam: http://ompldr.org/vZzlzYw/compressed-textures.zip
17:13 Calinou (this should replace all the default game textures)
17:14 sokomine after a short glance on the doors: it annoys me that each door is implemented anew even though most of the time they only supply diffrent textures and nodeboxes. that's true for vanessas doors and i don't see much configurability on pilzadams door right now?
17:16 PilzAdam my mod adds an function to register doors
17:16 PilzAdam it has a fixed nodebox
17:17 sokomine vanessas doors have more complex nodeboxes (they have glass-parts inserted). and addis steel-door consists of bars. can that be done with your mod?
17:18 PilzAdam sokomine, this would be too much for the default door mod in the main game
17:19 sokomine ah. found the function. hm. looks flexible. still...doors are doors. make the nodebox an optional parameter - and if none is supplied use your default one
17:22 sokomine with a bit of tree, wood, 3dforniture and vanessas wood-and-glass-doors, a small wooden house almost automaticly looks great :-)
17:26 Jordach 3Dforniure should be default
17:27 sokomine yes :-) at least the table+chair+armchair. the medieval part, rounded trees and bathroom set (very nice but not suitable for medieval environment) do not always fit
17:33 sokomine is there any way to find out more easily what is causing lag in minetest? apart from deinstalling and reinstalling mods?
17:33 OldCoder sokomine, Lag on a server?
17:34 sokomine yes
17:34 sokomine not on yours :-)
17:34 OldCoder Could try exactly the same setup on a different server.
17:34 OldCoder This might indicate if it was simply the connection.
17:34 OldCoder Or run the same setup locally.
17:35 sokomine no, the server owner confirmed that it was an issue of high cpu usage
17:35 OldCoder Then run it locally
17:35 OldCoder Does the problem return there?
17:35 sokomine the problem happens mostly when newly generated areas are visited. but not only...
17:35 OldCoder Does it occur in singleplayer mode?
17:36 sokomine hm. i don't know. but 2 players are enough to cause it
17:36 OldCoder Not just one, then
17:36 OldCoder So it needs a remote server for debugging
17:37 sokomine especially if a player logs in...
17:37 Calinou <Jordach> 3Dforniure should be default
17:37 Calinou fuck no
17:37 Calinou _maybe_ chairs and tables.
17:37 Calinou nothing else
17:37 sokomine why not? furniture is great!
17:37 Calinou 1) looks like shit
17:37 Calinou 2) too many nodeboxes for some of them
17:37 Calinou 3) FFS, it's furniture not forniture
17:39 sokomine oh, hm, too many nodeboxes does not seem to be that big of a problem? i had about 100 3d-sheep running around, and the 3d-player of pilzadam uses a lot of nodeboxes as well. doesn't seem to cause any slowdown
17:39 sokomine ok, point 3) is a valid argument :-)
17:40 Calinou also, the 3D torches make me vomit frame pointers
17:41 Calinou (and you can't even place these on floors/ceilings)
17:41 sokomine hm, ok, i don't like the 3d torches as well. but chair and table are a must. they improve the game a lot
17:41 sokomine and the table lamp is nice as well
17:41 telek Honestly there should be 2d alts of all 3d items.
17:42 Calinou maybe the table lamp too
17:42 telek And they can be auto-generated off 3d voxel models anyway.
17:43 telek Do it server-side either at server startup or when a new item is loaded and it should be a large performance hit for either client or server.
17:43 sokomine plus the armchair?
17:43 telek s/should/shouldn't/
17:43 * sokomine looks hopefully at calinou
17:43 Calinou the steel armchair would be ok too
17:44 sokomine hm. the 2d-images work for some things. for plants they look quite well. but the 3d-models of furniture are far better i think
17:44 telek Also: What's the slowest client computer anybody has run on?
17:44 telek sokomine: While I agree, some people may have performance limitations making the option of 2d imposters more sensible.
17:44 sokomine er...don't know. but if 2d-models are good for slower computers as an option then do them
17:45 telek Also has anybody thought about or done work on a distance fog slider?
17:46 Calinou press +/-
17:46 sokomine i've calculated that a recent celeron (not the developer but the cpu :-)) for ~40 euro (~2.6 ghz, dual core) would be about 50% faster than my 4-year-old computer
17:46 telek Calinou: Oh neat!
17:46 telek sokomine: Any modern proc for around that much would be :D
17:46 Calinou (this changes minimum view distance, maximum is always 160, if minimum goes above maximum the minimum value is used)
17:46 telek Calinou: Is that listed in the help somewhere?
17:47 sokomine well, it's not much compared to the speedup in the years bevor
17:47 sokomine er, before
17:47 Calinou nope :) it should be
17:47 Calinou http://wiki.minetest.com/wiki/Getting_started < there's a control list here, it should be completed, yes
17:48 telek Ahh ok :)
17:48 sokomine but the grapics are onboard. most likely that's the thing which slows all graphic things down terribly on my computer. minecraft classic can be either played well with fog turned to highest or the building be seen in full with fog turned to lowest and control slipping away due to low framerate
17:49 sokomine minetest does better. however, it takes long to load really huge structures
17:49 sokomine i havn't been able to see the eiffel tower on redcrabs server in full yet
17:49 telek I've been wondering about that.
17:49 sokomine so...taking care of even slower computers might be a good idea as long as it's optional
17:50 telek How many blocks can the server send at a time, and what's the algorithm for doing so?
17:50 telek Because rather than expanding outward from the player it seems to really load some random cells far out from where my player is.
17:50 sokomine i suppose one chunk of 16x16x16 is send each time
17:51 telek And yeah I know the minetest.conf options regarding it. I mean what sort of limit will you hit before causing server instability, as far as increasing the number 'in the line'?
17:51 sokomine that's how the game's organized according to the documentation. and it is consistend with what can be seen when one waits for the landscape to arrive on a server
17:51 telek There's conf options to change that, both per player and total across the server.
17:52 sokomine do you think that will be significant? if the server has to only load the chunks and pass them on to the client it ought to be primarily a question of how fast the connection is. unless abms and such do something to the data..
17:52 telek However I'd set them up to 8 per player back around 0.3.1 or something, and during the 0.4 era that appeared to cause server instability, both with and without mods installed (although a dramatic increase with mods, notably the animal mod)
17:53 telek sokomine: It depends on what sort of acknoledgement and waitstates are used before sending another block.
17:53 sokomine the animals mod got a lot tamer. animals are only created on newly generated areas per default. having lots of them run around in one place seems to work fine
17:53 sokomine hmm
17:53 telek That, some item mod, and both money mods were causing crashes on my server the other day.
17:54 telek I'd tracked down some crashing to being due to the animal mod, and some due to the previous update (I did a git update from the last 'official' devel release to trunk the other day.
17:56 sokomine well, i lost animals that where gathered in huge masses in a fenced-off area (i had placed them there) and they disappeared after restart. but that might have to do with 4seasons - might have missed something when making them work together
17:56 * telek nods.
18:13 Octupus Hola
18:14 Calinou hi
18:35 NakedFury how is everyone?
18:35 PilzAdam fine
18:35 Jordach alright
18:35 Calinou alwrong
18:36 NakedFury alwrong?
18:36 PilzAdam where are all the special commands for the tile string documented? (like "[combine:")
18:38 PilzAdam is it an Irrlicht thing or is it minetest defined?
18:38 VanessaE I believe it's an irrlicht thing.
18:45 VanessaE I can't for the life of me find where it's documented though.
18:48 xcgurl08 hey does anyone know a medical IRC channel?
18:48 xcgurl08 or is anyone here a podiatrist..that would work as well
18:49 VanessaE I know someone on another network who is a podiatrist actually
18:49 xcgurl08 really??
18:49 VanessaE but I doubt he's on right now.
18:49 Octupus I went to the doctor this morning so i am highly qualified
18:49 xcgurl08 do you know when he would be on?
18:49 VanessaE no clue, I haven't talked to him in months.
18:49 xcgurl08 :(
18:49 xcgurl08 I've been having extreme pain in my feet when I walk for more than 5 minutes
18:49 VanessaE better you should go see a doctor if there's a problem.
18:50 Octupus Try your shes xcgurl08
18:50 Octupus *shoes
19:02 jin_xi PilzAdam: those imagestrings are a mt thing, its all in tile.cpp/h
19:02 PilzAdam thx
19:23 PilzAdam jin_xi, why does "[transformfxdoor_steel_b_r.png" not work?
19:26 jin_xi idk
19:27 jin_xi F is for flip?
19:28 PilzAdam yep
19:28 PilzAdam FX = flip x axis = 4
19:28 jin_xi but you use fx
19:28 PilzAdam https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/src/tile.cpp#L1495
19:30 jin_xi yes, but is it case sensitive or not?
19:30 PilzAdam i tried both
19:30 jin_xi ok
19:31 jin_xi did you use a ^
19:32 jin_xi "^[transformfxdoor_steel_b_r.png"
19:32 rubenwardy hi all
19:33 jin_xi ok, thats not it probably
19:34 PilzAdam hm, the warning messages are gone but the texture is still wrong
19:35 PilzAdam s/warning/error
19:38 jin_xi but why dont you use transform4?
19:38 jin_xi that seems to be what you want
19:39 PilzAdam i tried that too
19:45 jin_xi ok, use "xdoor_steel_b_r_.png^[transformfx"
19:47 PilzAdam that works, thx
19:48 telek Oh another question for you guys: Anybody run into an issue where the player image turns into other texture images? I had it turning into flower pots on both sides the other day (different ones). I had texture atlas disabled (since it kept complaining about being overflowed.) Any ideas?
20:00 PilzAdam gtg; bye
20:07 Jordach hey guys
20:07 Jordach OldCoder - you here
20:08 OldCoder hi!
20:09 OldCoder Sort of
20:09 Jordach http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=2896
20:09 Jordach there is a win32 build of a boost mapper
20:09 Jordach with no libs
20:09 Jordach (with it)
20:13 bulletrulz hey
20:17 OldCoder Jordach, ?
20:18 OldCoder Jordach, should I review?
20:18 OldCoder Mapper?
20:18 Jordach it is a c++ version of the python script
20:18 OldCoder Go on
20:18 Jordach it needs boost -- but the win32 has no .dll prequisites
20:19 OldCoder All right
20:19 OldCoder Jordach, excuse me; this seems interesting but I am distracted. Is there something I should do with this?
20:19 Jordach look into boost for win32
20:23 OldCoder All right
20:23 OldCoder It may not be needed
20:23 OldCoder thexyz has made changes that should help
20:23 OldCoder The past week and this one are an odd period
20:23 OldCoder When time permits there will be a new set of builds that will give me more information
21:03 Alexandre1545 Hi, i'm trying to set my own minetest server and I need some help
21:04 Alexandre1545 I'm able to connect to the server in local, but when I try with the adress IP, it don't work
21:11 RealBadAngel you can create local server without giving adress
21:11 RealBadAngel to connect to local one you have to enter IP
21:11 RealBadAngel if from the very same computer use 127.0.0.1
21:14 jin_xi RealBadAngel: i've updated tetris blocks
21:16 Alexandre1545 Hi, i'm trying to set my own minetest server and I need some help. I'm able to connect to the server in local, but when I try with the adress IP, it don't work.
21:26 telek Alexandre1545: Provide some extra information: What operating system, which ip address (LAN or WAN), if you know what a firewall is and if it's enabled/disabled/has that port passed through.
21:30 Alexandre1545 I'm running my server on Debian 6 the ip is 24.37.79.134
21:31 RealBadAngel if you want to connect to local server, from the very same computer use 127.0.0.1
21:31 telek RealBadAngel: He's saying it'll connect locally but not remotely.
21:32 Alexandre1545 it's not the same computer
21:32 telek Alexandre1545: Can you ping your server?
21:32 telek And can you connect to other services on the server, just not the minetest server?
21:32 Alexandre1545 yes my laptop connect to it in local
21:33 Alexandre1545 i do my test with my laptop because the server is in command line
21:34 telek 'in local'? Do you mean your laptop can connect to a 'local' minetest server, or you mean it is connected to the local area network?
21:34 Alexandre1545 local network
21:34 telek So ssh or such work to the server?
21:35 telek Do you have nmap installed on either the server or laptop?
21:35 Alexandre1545 no
21:36 telek You can ssh into the server?
21:36 Alexandre1545 yes
21:36 telek Laptop is windows or linux?
21:36 Alexandre1545 Linux
21:36 telek Debian or ubuntu?
21:37 Alexandre1545 Fedora
21:37 telek yum install nmap (maybe also nmap-fe or nmapfe, can't remember the package name.)
21:37 telek nmap-fe is a GUI frontend for nmap. Although command line is faster.
21:38 * telek recommends 'nmap -sU -p30000 <ip address of server>' (assuming the minetest server is running at the default port 30000)
21:38 telek -sU is scan UDP, -p is port number (or range, see manpage), and ip address is self explanatory :)
21:39 Alexandre1545 nmap -sU -p30000 aviactu.info
21:39 Alexandre1545 Starting Nmap 6.01 ( http://nmap.org ) at 2012-11-13 16:39 EST
21:40 Alexandre1545 Nmap scan report for aviactu.info (24.37.79.134)
21:40 Alexandre1545 Host is up (0.0042s latency).
21:40 Alexandre1545 rDNS record for 24.37.79.134: modemcable134.79-37-24.static.videotron.ca
21:40 Alexandre1545 PORT STATE SERVICE
21:40 Alexandre1545 30000/udp open|filtered unknown
21:40 Alexandre1545 Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 0.36 seconds
21:40 telek Next time pastbin it or something :)
21:40 telek Your firewall is probably filtering all unused ports.
21:41 Alexandre1545 i'm running other game server without problem
21:41 telek On ports above or below 16000?
21:42 Alexandre1545 above
21:43 Alexandre1545 i'm running Urban Terror servers on 27960
21:44 * telek hrmms.
21:44 telek It hangs saying 'connecting to server'?
21:44 Alexandre1545 yes
21:45 telek The minetestserver process is definitely running on the server?
21:45 Alexandre1545 yes i've verified with htop
21:45 RealBadAngel have you created the world for the server?
21:46 RealBadAngel jin_xi: those are better
21:46 telek And the client is definitely set to port 30000, not 30001 or something?
21:47 jin_xi your changes for background in formspec are upstream now
21:47 RealBadAngel yeah i know
21:47 jin_xi so i was hoping you could make a background, and maybe better buttons too?
21:47 RealBadAngel i can
21:48 Alexandre1545 the client is on 30000
21:49 RealBadAngel to use backgrounds you should not display black squares
21:49 RealBadAngel just the tiles
21:49 jin_xi ok
21:50 RealBadAngel make this change and i will prepare simple background for start
21:50 Alexandre1545 Like I said, when i connect to the server using the local adress of my server, it work, I see the world
21:50 telek Alexandre1545: At this point I'm not really sure what to tell you, other than ask someone on #debian and see if it's your firewall filtering ports above a certain #
21:51 telek Ohhh
21:52 telek It's either the firewall on your cablemodem/router, or it's a 'software limitation' that ports above 30k aren't accessable (it used to be assumed they were temporary ports only.)
21:53 Alexandre1545 in the router, the port should be tcp or udp ?
21:53 RealBadAngel udp
21:53 Alexandre1545 oh
21:54 telek Alexandre1545: For future reference specify 'local host' or 'local area network address'
21:54 RealBadAngel now its working
21:54 telek I mistook it for 'you could connect ON the computer' but not on the LAN, not via the wan.
21:54 Alexandre1545 i will try
21:55 telek I mean you could connect within the server computer, but not from the laptop over the LAN
21:55 Alexandre1545 yes it work now
21:56 Alexandre1545 can someone test it to see if it really work
21:56 RealBadAngel i connected to your server
21:56 RealBadAngel everything looks ok
21:57 telek Yep
21:59 Alexandre1545 thanks for the help
22:01 RealBadAngel np
22:01 RealBadAngel now you will propably want to install some mods
22:01 RealBadAngel check the forums for them
22:03 telek Yep, will make your server much more colorful :)
22:26 RealBadAngel jin_xi: here?
22:30 jin_xi yes
22:33 RealBadAngel got small update, proper removing of machine, can i merge now?
22:33 jin_xi go ahead
22:34 RealBadAngel hold on
22:35 RealBadAngel done
22:37 RealBadAngel now whatever part you will dig, its gone, and you got 1 node back
22:37 jin_xi nice
22:38 RealBadAngel so, good time to think bout crafting recipe imho
22:39 jin_xi idk, making it work properly on servers seems more important to me
22:39 jin_xi besides, i dont really mind whatever recipe is used
22:40 RealBadAngel that will be an easy part
22:40 RealBadAngel shall i do that now?
22:40 jin_xi i use giveme, mod more than play ;)
22:40 RealBadAngel on servers folks usually dont have such rights
22:41 RealBadAngel so it has to be craftable
22:41 jin_xi sure
22:52 RealBadAngel jin_xi, makin it multiplayer now
22:52 RealBadAngel gonna take a while
22:55 jin_xi ok, code is quite hacky, feel free to improve while you're at it
22:56 jin_xi thanks for your help!
23:03 RealBadAngel hmmm
23:03 RealBadAngel just encountered a problem, store table to meta
23:03 RealBadAngel never did that
23:04 RealBadAngel lookin for a solution now
23:10 jin_xi use minetest.serialize and deserialize
23:20 RealBadAngel jin_xi, got any example on that?
23:30 jin_xi https://github.com/obneq/painting/blob/master/init.lua#L240
23:30 jin_xi serialize just makes table to string, then save string to meta
23:31 RealBadAngel ah ok
23:31 RealBadAngel thx
23:31 jin_xi use deserialize(string) to get back table
23:31 jin_xi but in painting its entities
23:33 jin_xi entities can have this https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1255
23:33 jin_xi arbitrary variable
23:34 RealBadAngel got it workin
23:35 jin_xi wow that was fast ;)
23:35 RealBadAngel meta:set_string("board",minetest.serialize(board))
23:35 RealBadAngel i dont mean whole stuff lol
23:35 RealBadAngel just storing and restoring tables
23:35 jin_xi but will this be needed every tick?
23:36 jin_xi if so it would be easier use invisible entity to avoid that while game is running
23:36 RealBadAngel every called function has to store and restore game data from meta
23:36 RealBadAngel so each machine will be independent from anothers
23:37 jin_xi yes, but we could register an entity for every game that is played and use its arbitrary variable for keeping track of board
23:38 jin_xi but idk havent really thougt about it
23:38 RealBadAngel this way it will surely work without any problems
23:39 RealBadAngel no matter how many machines you will have or the other players
23:39 RealBadAngel each machine will be unique
23:40 RealBadAngel just maybe High Score table should be server wide
23:41 RealBadAngel that could be nice, dont you think?
23:41 jin_xi yes
23:41 jin_xi im also thinking about what game next
23:41 RealBadAngel pacman?
23:41 jin_xi i think snake will work well
23:41 jin_xi not sure if smooth movement is really doable
23:42 RealBadAngel ive made snake game long time ago
23:42 jin_xi snake is both grid and tick based, so
23:42 RealBadAngel http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noKH_RXHrVI
23:44 jin_xi you made this? cool
23:47 jin_xi nice puzzle idea
23:48 RealBadAngel in 1992