Time  Nick            Message
01:10 Noclip[m]       Does the ingame contentdb browser and downloader always use https/tls?
01:12 rubenwardy      Yes
01:19 Noclip[m]       rubenwardy: But the connection between client and server during gameplay (including the chat) is still unencrypted, right?
01:19 rubenwardy      Correct
01:19 Noclip[m]       Okay
01:24 cheapie         Decided to try Minetest on a terrible computer from about 2011 here (has an AMD E-450, which is a... not-great netbook CPU, despite this being a desktop). Server can't really keep up, but the client ran okay after turning the settings down enough (I see the default settings still assume you're playing on a supercomputer).
01:24 muurkha         heh
01:24 muurkha         erle told me about this subsampling setting which helped a lot with my wimpy laptop supercomputer
01:25 muurkha         undersampling = 4
01:25 stormchaser3000 lol, I would expect it to run reasonably well, but perhaps I was getting my hopes up
01:25 muurkha         I stuck it in my minetest.conf and now I never get below 25 fps
01:25 stormchaser3000 It does at least work somewhat well on a Pi 400, but that's probably overkill
01:25 cheapie         Yeah, I'm sure I could get the client running faster if I played with some of those settings, but even with just the basics (more sane view range of like 30-50 and most of the eye candy disabled) it was hitting 40 FPS - which is "fine"
01:25 Noclip[m]       Doesn't it even run fine on Raspi?
01:25 muurkha         nice
01:26 cheapie         This CPU is one of those weird ones AMD did for a while where its own integrated graphics are faster than what the CPU can keep up with.
01:26 stormchaser3000 cheapie: that's basically what I was getting on my Pi 400 when I had window compositing disabled on xfce4 and the viewing-range reduced
01:26 farribeiro      run in raspi 4?
01:27 muurkha         raspi 4 is equivalent to 400 I think
01:27 muurkha         it just doesn't have a keyboard built into it
01:27 stormchaser3000 I didn't have to disable the basic shaders, though I imagine if I had gone near trees I would have had to have changed the appearance of the leaves
01:27 farribeiro      try out the flathub ... arm64 is supported
01:27 stormchaser3000 yeah, it can be downloaded from Flathub, but it's also available in the Manjaro repos (though that tends to lag a bit behind)
01:28 cheapie         farribeiro: I'm not sure what difference that makes, basically every distro ever ships MT in a real package manager too.
01:28 stormchaser3000 I am surprised at how well hexchat works on the pi 400 these days though. I used to get more rolling-shutter effects with gtk2 apps
01:28 stormchaser3000 Even Ubuntu 10.04 had Minetest 0.3 in it's repos ;)
01:29 farribeiro      also kvirc built with arm64 ... i maintainer
01:29 muurkha         does minetest 0.3 run better on a netbook?
01:29 stormchaser3000 If you can manage to get 0.3 to compile, then probably
01:29 cheapie         Heck, even Haiku (which isn't Linux) ships Minetest in their repos. They don't really have working 3D acceleration, so performance... isn't great.
01:29 stormchaser3000 0.3 uses some old C code that doesn't really compile on modern systems without some modifications
01:29 cheapie         They default to burningsvideo, IIRC.
01:29 stormchaser3000 that's cool to hear Haiku has it
01:30 stormchaser3000 That's a project I check in on every once in a while
01:31 muurkha         why would it be hard to get 0.3 to compile?
01:31 stormchaser3000 Old C standards
01:31 stormchaser3000 Old C standards and modern GCC don't mix very well
01:31 muurkha         I think GCC can still compile C89 and even K&R C
01:31 stormchaser3000 you can technically get it to compile, but you have to change some include statements
01:32 muurkha         I have occasionally had to tweak stuff from the 90s that does things like write to strings
01:32 stormchaser3000 the header files in glibc aren't quite the same as they were back then and you can compile it with clang, but I have run into strange results doing that (mapgen was all wonky)
01:33 stormchaser3000 I think there are a couple source files that need unistd.h nowdays and possibly one more header file that wasn't required back then
01:33 muurkha         oh, sure
01:34 muurkha         it's common for the includes you need to change a bit
01:34 muurkha         but easy to fix
02:32 Noclip[m]       rubenwardy: I some form of admin confirmation required if someone wants to add a new project to contentdb?
02:33 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> you add it, submit it for review, and an editor reviews it
02:33 rubenwardy      .Packages are reviewed by editors. This is mostly to look for issues in the description or licensing, they don't read every line of code
02:34 rubenwardy      Or even any kind of code
02:35 Noclip[m]       But at least it prevents an attacker from just spamming new projects?
02:36 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> yeah, and all the stuff in package inclusion
02:36 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> and images, etc
02:37 Noclip[m]       Does the review include testing the project?
02:37 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> officially, no
08:15 muurkha         huh, I just found out VanessaE left Minetest in November.  that's a huge bummer
08:16 muurkha         I was wondering why I wasn't seeing updates on any of her mods
08:25 Oblomov         oof
08:26 muurkha         she handed off all her servers to different people in the community so the users wouldn't lose their buildings and stuff
13:07 schwarzwald[m]  I'm fooling around with refactoring the OBJ mesh loader in Irrlicht, and things are already breaking.
13:08 MTDiscord       <luatic> ooh I've read the obj mesh loader to infer the subset of obj it supports
13:08 schwarzwald[m]  I created an in-memory buffer to fake file loading for my unit tests, but it's incomplete because of limitations with constness ATM.
13:09 schwarzwald[m]  `stringstream::tellg()` isn't const, but `IReadFile::getPos()` is, so I have big problems there.
13:09 schwarzwald[m]  I hardcoded that and the file size to make it compile, but when I loaded the mesh the stdlib threw an exception.
13:14 mazes_83        I'm looking at memory size for my server, even no player logged in memory usage increase. Is it supposed to ?
13:14 MTDiscord       <Warr1024> Depends on what's running.  Mods can cause stuff to load.
13:15 MTDiscord       <luatic> Sounds like a maybe memleak. May also be Lua doing its thing though; what happens if you call collectgarbage a few times?
13:17 mazes_83        idk how to call collectgarbage
13:17 MTDiscord       <luatic> With WE you should be able to use //lua
13:17 MTDiscord       <luatic> Otherwise just grab a mod that does it periodically
13:18 MTDiscord       <luatic> Lua should schedule GC itself, but who knows how it's heuristic works and when it starts to do so
13:18 MTDiscord       <luatic> its*
13:19 mazes_83        ok got it
13:20 mazes_83        need to restart server to test one or other way
13:35 mazes_83        got to let the server idle a bit to be able to test
13:38 mazes_83        second question bit same as first: what can trigger cpu usage when idle (not that much but still > ten times more as an idle firefox window)
13:42 MTDiscord       <Warr1024> You mean in MT specifically?
13:43 mazes_83        yes
13:44 MTDiscord       <Warr1024> I'd find out what the baseline for the C++ code is by running something barebones like Void Game ... and then anything beyond that, I'd suspect is globalsteps or afters, if no players are on.
13:44 mazes_83        ok, I will take a look on globalsteps in my mod set
13:46 mazes_83        one is already suspected (climate_api), I did local changes that dropped drastically this mod cpu usage, but didn't check if it can leak some stuffs
13:48 mazes_83        may lua code coverage tools help, or am I on the wrong way ?
13:55 sfan5           the server has a profiler
13:55 schwarzwald[m]  Lol, so that's why it crashed. `c8* buf = new c8[filesize];` with a filesize of -1 probably doesn't work too well.
14:26 mazes_83        sfan5: the profiler works for memory usage ? Can I use it on server with none connected ?
14:26 sfan5           cpu usage
15:10 mazes_83        ok thanks all, I added a guard to just skip globalstep if no player connected in two mods: petz and climate_api: the memory consumption is now stable when server "idle"
15:11 mazes_83        now I got to see which of those two slowly eats all memory
15:12 mazes_83        hope to see less swapping on the host. again ty all
15:50 MTDiscord       <Warr1024> If you do isolate it to one specific mod, getting a bug report into the mod's bug tracker would be great
15:57 Meowie_Gamer    hello
16:11 Meowie_Gamer    im kinda tired??? i got tons of sleep
16:58 ronoaldo        Hi! Does anyone know why water_life is no longer on Content DB? https://content.minetest.net/packages/Gundul/water_life/ - it was here, now do not show up on search anymore.
17:09 ensayia         Seems like reaching out to the developer would be the best course of action. If they don't answer... that might be why.
17:09 farribeiro      Gundul
17:09 fluxionary      ronoaldo, possibly check the approval discussion, it might have gotten un-approved for some reason
17:10 fluxionary      (it can take a day to get an email alert about something like that, depending on your email settings)
17:17 ronoaldo        ensayia: thans, since the page with the author/mod no longer exists on ContentDB, I'm trying to find where it was hosted but I'm not finding the mod elsewhere. Searched for the mod in forums also without luck.
17:18 ronoaldo        fluxionary: do you happend to have a link for such page? My search engine attempt landed only to a comment on the mod made by a user, which lead to the same 404 page I linked above
17:18 fluxionary      ronoaldo: oh sorry, i thought you were the mod dev
17:18 fluxionary      i've got a copy of the mod in case it needs to be mirrored somewhere
17:18 ronoaldo        no ,the mod was on my server, and now I don't seem to get it. I do have the mod copy thogh, in the image container of my server so I'll probably need to restore from there.
17:19 ronoaldo        fluxionary: thank you! I got a version pinned on my server, probably going to use it
17:19 definitelya     Here is the repo: https://github.com/berengma/water_life
17:20 definitelya     berengma AKA Gundul
17:20 ronoaldo        oh, cool - that confused me for a few seconds until I saw the Contributors spot at Github lol thanks definitelya
17:21 definitelya     np :)
17:25 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> The author removed it from cdb. Reportedly they took a step back from minetest due to life a while back, and one user claims they left minetest due to some drama on the forums recently, however I can't personally verify that
17:25 ronoaldo        oh, that is unfortunate. thanks for the info Jonathon
17:29 ronoaldo        i also find it annoying that contentdb do not keep older versions archived/downloadable... I download mods during my server build-time and most of TenPlus1 mods have older versions removed :|
17:29 ronoaldo        but that is just for me probably, so...
17:30 fluxionary      on a different topic, do any devs have any idea how a player object passed to an `on_dieplayer` callback would have the name be an empty string and have get_pos return (0,0,0)? i can't find any evidence a mod called it directly.
17:33 fluxionary      ronoaldo, all of TenPlus1's mods are here, you can use any commit you like: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1
17:35 ronoaldo        yeah, Im using fixed releases from contentdb for reproducible builds, and that is failing so probably going to need to move from it to git commit hashes... wonderful
17:38 fluxionary      using git submodules for that is pretty reliable, e.g. https://github.com/BlockySurvival/bls_mods
17:39 ronoaldo        yeah, I have used git submodules and it is quite painful sometimes - it could probably me doing it wrong tho.
17:39 farribeiro      ronoaldo make a go utility to download from contentdb
17:40 fluxionary      farribeiro, doesn't help if the old versions aren't available
17:40 farribeiro      i thinking do same, but as lua module
17:40 ronoaldo        yep, I have the tool and the issue is that the older versions are removed
17:40 farribeiro      right
17:41 farribeiro      i think a git submodule is a good way to maintain updated
17:42 ronoaldo        I'll probably go nuts and vendor everything and call it a day
17:43 farribeiro      are you writing the month update for your server, ronoaldo ?
17:43 ronoaldo        yep, working on it now, updating for 5.6.1 and doing the mod updates right after
17:43 ronoaldo        the issue is I could not split these as upgrading to 5.6.1 forced me to also update missing mod versions
17:44 ronoaldo        it will be harder to debug if issues arise
17:44 mazes_83        Warr1024: I did already open pr for some other parts in climate_api
17:44 farribeiro      i opened some issues, ronoaldo, take a look
17:44 ronoaldo        farribeiro: will do, thanks!
17:45 mazes_83        Warr1024: in fact same part but different issue (cpu), now try to fix memory (if not in petz)
17:45 farribeiro      i will open new issue
17:47 farribeiro      no... just a single commet
17:52 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> ronoaldo: cdb does keep older versions around, looks like tenplus1 probably purged there older ones
17:53 mazes_83        is it about doors redo ? I introcued some change to it recently
17:53 mazes_83        introduced
17:53 mazes_83        *
18:01 mazes_83        ronoaldo: ?
18:02 ronoaldo        mazes_83: sorry, I could not understand your question ...
18:03 mazes_83        you said you had one issue with one of tenplus1 mod, if it is doors redo I can maybe help
18:03 ronoaldo        I was mentioning that I was trying to apply some skills in software releases for reproducible builds that I used elsewhere into my Minetest server, and was sharing my failed attempts. Specifically, the attempt to use contentdb as a source of truth.
18:04 ronoaldo        mazes_83: on, no - it is not a specific mod, it is the mod author removing the mod old releases that caused issues to me
18:04 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> i would never use contentdb as a source of truth. always git
18:04 mazes_83        ok, got it wrong, not readed all very careful
18:05 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> cdb is meant to be user friendly and for non technical users. or a listing service to find mods for more technical users and then use git
18:13 ronoaldo        Jonathon: yes, that makes sense. I tought it was the central repository for minetest mods when I started. There isn't one sadly. By source of truth I mean: point in time released content source of truth. Most git repos don't tag releases so it is a bit harder to figure out what is a "stable" release.
18:13 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> minetest mods in general dont really have releases, probably 90 percent are rolling release
18:14 ronoaldo        Yeah, it gets more difficult to keep my server running then :) probably going to shut it down.
18:17 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> not really, dependabot, etc, services make it rather easy. plenty of servers do it
18:18 ronoaldo        my point is not that it is hard to update the mods, it is hard to debug issues when something breaks
18:18 ronoaldo        updating the mods is as  simple as a single command. debugging what broke with everything rolling release is the issue
18:19 ronoaldo        I was relying on a "stable" ping as made by the author, which is as far as we can go with regards to mods I guess
18:19 ronoaldo        What I am realizing is that there is no such thing so it is just pointless
18:20 ronoaldo        The server I have now has around 80G of player generated data on the map (mapgen + player builds + entities + nodes), and all can break with an update.
18:20 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> welcome to software dev in general
18:21 Desour          then just reload the data from the backup that you made before updating
18:21 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> also ^
18:22 ronoaldo        sorry guys, I appreciate your suggestions but I'm not new to software dev - the whole point I am making is about releasing software.
18:22 ronoaldo        I have two daily backups off site where I host the software, that helps when something is wrong. Yeas I have a snapshot of the code on Docker image which also helps reverting a bad update.
18:23 ronoaldo        This is development 101 perhaps these days? My point is about releasing software and how I was attempting to apply the practices I am used to on my server hosting... but I guess all points are already crystal clear probably :) thanks for the help.
18:24 MTDiscord       <Jonathon> see python 2 -> 3 having small breakages or any other language.
18:24 ronoaldo        Yep :) i suffered a bit from it too
18:25 ronoaldo        I'll have to leave, again, thanks for the comments.
18:35 muurkha         Python 2 -> 3 was extremely unusual; that enormous degree of backwards-incompatibility has never happened in C, Perl, bash, C++, Objective-C, COBOL, FORTRAN, or just about any other language
18:36 farribeiro      lua
18:36 Not_Leader      perl and raku?
18:36 muurkha         Lua is an exception!
18:36 muurkha         it was going to happen in Perl but eventually they renamed Perl 6 to Raku, yeah
18:36 muurkha         Lua doesn't try for backwards-compatibility from one release to the next, even 5.1 to 5.2
18:36 farribeiro      luajit isn't compatible with PUC Lua 5.4
18:36 muurkha         well, luajit is Lua 5.1
18:37 muurkha         but PUC Lua 5.4 isn't backwards-compatible with PUC Lua 5.3, which isn't backwards-compatible with PUC Lua 5.2, either
18:38 muurkha         it's pretty common for *libraries* (such as Minetest mods) to have backwards-compatibility problems, but very unusual for languages
18:38 ronoaldo        Imagine if Python 2 was removed and we only had a git submodule to python 3 available? This is what I was talking about.
18:38 MTDiscord       <GoodClover> LuaJIT is a 5.1 with a bunch of 5.2 features added on top, plus the FFI
18:39 Not_Leader      wait what about idris 1 and 2?
18:40 ronoaldo        What about go 1 and.. wait, there is only Go 1.
18:41 farribeiro      muurkha as lua is a exception, minetest is also. just works with luajit
18:43 Desour          minetest also works with PUC lua
18:43 farribeiro      fails with contentdb
18:43 MTDiscord       <luatic> farribeiro: PUC Lua 5.1, that is
18:45 Desour          farribeiro: have u opened an issue?
18:45 farribeiro      yes PUC Lua 5.1
18:45 farribeiro      for ronoaldo?
18:45 Desour          for puc lua failing with contentdb
18:46 farribeiro      no...
18:46 muurkha         farribeiro: minetest doesn't update to new versions of Lua because Lua is an exception
18:47 muurkha         I mean, Lua is intended to be used that way
18:47 MTDiscord       <luatic> basically yes (also LuaJIT)
18:47 muurkha         Not_Leader: I don't know about Idris
18:47 Desour          we need 8 more issues
18:47 muurkha         I have enough issues for all of us
18:48 Desour          muurkha: what's your name on github?
18:49 muurkha         kragen
18:49 Desour          found 0 issues from u
18:53 muurkha         it was a joke
19:21 MinetestBot     02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest: Improve crafting recipe documentation (#12806) 13977f656 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/977f656e09c4b542e09ec210b202ba46eb45ac5e (152022-10-01T19:20:28Z)
19:21 MinetestBot     02[git] 04Desour -> 03minetest/minetest: Add an item pick up callback (2) (#7712) 1322cbc05 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/22cbc058080127445b69d2137e346ad52f8b3387 (152022-10-01T19:21:06Z)
19:21 MinetestBot     02[git] 04Wuzzy2 -> 03minetest/minetest_game: Teach screwdriver to rotate 4dir nodes (#2992) 1399a7193 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/99a719309559b632af65756f380496aa269d4b4a (152022-10-01T19:19:42Z)
19:28 muurkha         Desour: I meant "I have issues" in the sense of "I have psychological problems" :)
19:33 Desour          ah, ok
20:22 Teckla          Do Minetest games update themselves automatically?  For example, I'm playing MineCore 5.  Just wondering if it'll update itself, or if it requires manual intervention to update.
20:26 MTDiscord       <LandarVargan> You have to update them in the content tab usually
20:31 kilbith         welp, looks like I can play MT in good conditions now: https://i.imgur.com/ARuGx46.png
21:25 MTDiscord       <ElCeejo> 3k USD laptop with linux deeply saddens me
21:41 MTDiscord       <savilli> What about 6K USD desktop with linux?
21:54 muurkha         ElCeejo: send it to me, I'm willing to make the sacrifice
21:57 muurkha         I'll suffer the deep sadness it brings, for your sake
22:07 MTDiscord       <ElCeejo> That'd be up to Kilbith sadly
22:13 Teckla          LandarVargan: Thank you!
22:54 Desour          did you know? there are more closed PRs than closed issues
23:42 schwarzwald[m]  Adding new bugs is a lot more fun than fixing old ones.
23:52 MTDiscord       <ElCeejo> that's a lot documentation grammar corrections