Time Nick Message 11:10 erle not sure if anyone even tried it, but if you tried and failed, the first example in the README contained typos. so try again: https://git.minetest.land/erlehmann/unicode_text 16:07 rut9992 I get this error when i start up a mineclone or a mesecraft game: ERROR[Main]: Some exception: "std::bad_alloc". I am on openbsd with the official package (version 5.6.0). I tried to play with the base minetest game and it works flawlessly. Can someone help me? 16:08 sfan5 that means Minetest ran out of RAM 16:10 rut9992 I know, but why does it work on minetest game? Also, is 4GB not enough? I also did not notice huge usage of the RAM on htop while the game loaded but i don't know if that is somewhat truthful or relevant 16:12 sfan5 minetest game is a bunch simpler and less demanding 16:14 sfan5 4GB should be "enough" but that's not a very useful statement without knowing how much your OS or other apps are using 16:15 rut9992 i am not using anything else on purpose, just st terminal to monitor minetest and the minetest processes themselves 16:24 sfan5 just booted up a new mesecraft game on default settings, 1600MB process usage 16:26 MTDiscord <luatic> oof 16:27 MTDiscord <luatic> bruh moment, mesecraft contains a "mods disabled" folder of about 60 MB 16:28 ROllerozxa still have no idea why the disabled mods folder still shows up in the release even though it's excluded in the gitattribute 16:28 ROllerozxa s 16:28 celeron55 rut9992: do you have some swap space enabled on disk or are you running ram only? 16:30 celeron55 with that amount of ram you do want to enable some swap 16:32 celeron55 generally speaking, 4 GB isn't enough for a modern OS + modern applications (like a web browser). i mean, if you called to any type of IT support and stated you have 4 GB of ram they'd tell you have to get more 16:33 celeron55 you probably can do with 4 GB, but it's up to you to proof you can 16:33 celeron55 prove* 17:15 hare_hare_yukai ERROR[Main]: /home/minetest/.var/app/net.minetest.Minetest/.minetest/mods/mineclone2/init.lua: No such file or directory 17:15 hare_hare_yukai how do i fix this 17:15 hare_hare_yukai on flatpak run net.minetest.Minetest --server 17:17 sfan5 don't put mineclone into your mods folder 17:17 sfan5 it's not a mod 17:20 hare_hare_yukai oh, /games then? 17:22 sfan5 yes 18:26 erle celeron55 uh, i have 2GB of RAM and it's pretty okay 18:26 erle celeron55 i use i3, firefox, hexchat, gajim 18:27 erle there exists exactly one website that firefox can not load with that setup and that is the discord register site 18:27 erle probably because it was made by extremely talented monkeys who just randomly pushed buttons on some extremely worn-out typewriters 18:29 rubenwardy <ROllerozxa> still have no idea why the disabled mods folder still shows up in the release even though it's excluded in the gitattribute 18:29 rubenwardy It shouldn't have the ending / 18:30 ROllerozxa ...oh @_@ 18:30 MTDiscord <luatic> 💀 18:32 appguru erle squeezing out a few kb of MTG by using TGA, meanwhile packages on ContentDB are shipping a whopping 60 megs (1/3 of the package) "disabled mods" due to a stupid mistake xD 18:32 erle appguru maybe, just maybe, my focus is not to save MTG, but to make generated textures smaller in the end. 18:33 erle but yeah, there's a lot to do 18:33 erle obj.z when 18:33 appguru erle: heh yeah, generated textures are a different topic of course 18:33 erle appguru you know mm3d? it's a pretty good simple 3d editor. if you open up a bunch of mcl2 things, you can find the models where adjacent triangles can be merged lol. 18:34 appguru merged? as in, creating quads? 18:34 appguru or as in merging same vertices? 18:34 appguru fun fact: the b3d exporter seems to be pretty wasteful - it writes both zero bone weights and duplicates vertices 18:34 erle appguru, merged as in there are dozens of triangles covering a single plane while two would suffice and this blows up the filesize 18:35 appguru lol 18:35 erle mm3d has a function where you select the entire plane and merge that away 18:35 erle but for some reason no one seems to USE mm3d 18:35 appguru well, I just looked at mesecraft's media bloat today, and most of it seems to come from sounds 18:35 appguru also some .blend files which were left in there 18:35 erle how can sounds be bloated? are they sampling rate 90000000? 18:36 erle fun fact: i once found out that maybe, just maybe, some web applications that have ffmpeg take ffmpeg command line options if you put them in a file and call it .mp3 or .mp4 hehe 18:36 erle that way you can stuff synthesizer commands for ffmpeg into a very small text file and fill the disk 18:37 erle did i try it on anything i was not allowed to yo? of course not 18:37 erle i would NEVER do cybercrime 18:37 erle so only my employer's system got fixed 18:37 erle have fun with this info! 18:49 erle celeron55, generally, the one thing bringing down a 2GB computer is memory leaks, like endless scrolling without cleaning up stuff. but it brings down every computer, it just takes longer for those with more RAM. 18:49 erle like no amount of RAM is going to defeat the memory leak demons 18:49 mrkubax10 "talented monkeys who just randomly pushed buttons on some extremely worn-out typewriters" lol 18:49 mrkubax10 that's a good one 18:50 erle well i did web stuff myself, i know how this works 18:50 erle you need to be extremely knowledgeful and do extremely stupid stuff despite that domain knowledge to get a webpage that hangs any browser 18:50 mrkubax10 discord easily can use 700 MB of RAM btw 18:50 erle yes, but i mean the *login/register* page in the web browser 18:51 erle there is NO justification it should hang a browser tab 18:51 erle none 18:51 mrkubax10 true 18:51 erle so they are probably doing something extremely stupid 18:51 erle i mean there is other stuff 18:51 erle software bugs that are not affecting performance happen every time 18:51 erle for example, just today i ordered stuff at REWE (a german supermarket chain online) 18:52 erle for some reason i got logged out when i was not at my computer for 30 minutes or so, no idea 18:52 erle but as soon as i clicked login again, i could select my profile and be logged in again 18:52 erle there is at least one bug here 18:52 erle either they wanted to log me out and did not invalidate the session 18:52 erle or they did not want to log me out and the state transition borked itself 18:52 erle in any case, there is zero chance this is working as designed as i see it 18:53 erle because then i'd have to input my credentials again to login 18:53 MTDiscord <celeron55> erle: How much swap do you have along with 2 GB ram? 18:54 erle celeron55, no idea, how do i find that out? 18:54 erle on linux 18:54 mrkubax10 did you set up swap partition? 18:54 mrkubax10 if not then you don't have swap 18:54 erle ; LANG=C free 18:54 erle total used free shared buff/cache available 18:54 erle Mem: 2052896 1253100 331024 220620 468772 366344 18:54 erle Swap: 2093052 704880 1388172 18:55 erle celeron55, that the info you wanted? 18:55 erle i have 2G swap 18:56 erle free -h is better 18:56 erle Mem: 2.0Gi 1.2Gi 294Mi 182Mi 439Mi 342Mi 18:56 erle Swap: 2.0Gi 686Mi 1.3Gi 18:56 erle celeron55 the thing is, i probably could not run KDE with this and expect any application to have RAM, but minetest runs just fine, and many other things do too 18:57 erle my standard is ”if you can watch a youtube video at your screen resolution and do something beside is, your computer is *probably* not too shitty” 18:57 erle which is funny, because last week i encountered a smart TV and it decided to crash itself only minutes after i tried to watch a perun video hehe 18:58 erle like “you had ONE job” 18:58 erle hehe 18:59 erle celeron55, in general, i have found that people who don't use a low-end system mis-estimate with how little you can get away. they also tend to write shitty bloaty software. 19:00 erle my go-to example: new versions of wings3d claim to not run on computers with old GPUs. but wings3d uses so little of a GPU that you can simply run it on those computers with LIBGL_ALWAYS_SOFTWARE=1 and not notice a difference (well, i haven't noticed one). 19:00 erle so the creators of wings3d obv misestimate how little resources their app uses 19:01 erle which is weird, because wings3d used to run just fine without complaining 19:02 erle i think i could even run sway, but there was some reason why i don't want to 19:02 erle i mean i tried once 19:02 erle it works 19:18 erle question: should i just disable the bidi algorithm for the release of unicode_text? 19:18 erle i mean i have not ever seen anyone usi bidi text in minetest 19:18 erle and my implementation is incomplete 19:19 erle i'd appreciate feedback from people who know arabic or hebrew 20:19 erle what can definitely be said is that incompetent programmers may not know how to create software that runs on low-end devices lol https://git.minetest.land/MineClone2/MineClone2/issues/3874 20:20 erle > I played this game some time ago and everything was very good, even stable fps but now it's not even starting( 20:20 erle i *somehow* doubt that mcl2 has new features that justify requiring a supercomputer 21:12 rut9992 celeron55 i have swap, but i am not sure if the RAM is the issue. I just installed openBSD on this 4GB laptop because it has a more powerful CPU. Old laptop has 8GB but i don't remember it using more than 4GB with minetest or mesecraft. I was wondering if it's more of an issue on the OpenBSD part. 21:12 rut9992 Old laptop has arch 21:13 rut9992 I didn't mention that after the first try on playing a game, if i retry it just segfaults and crashes. This is only with mesecraft and mineclone 21:14 rut9992 One thing i noticed is that the openbsd version is 5.6.0 while the current is 5.6.1. I was thinking if it's not some compatibility issue with the mods and the base game version. Also because i don't have any issues playing the base minetest game. 21:50 erle rut9992 well mineclone2 is notoriously bad about resource consumption. always has been except when cora was at the helm. 21:50 erle (maybe wuzzy was good too, i don't know) 21:51 erle rut9992 basically, if the maintainer has a good computer, that tends to be the minimum 21:51 erle unless they are really good at taking a perspective that is not their own 21:51 erle i once complained about lag and the issue got retitled ”post your computer's specs” and everyone was making fun of me for having a “bad” computer 21:52 muurkha haha 21:52 erle IIRC the lag was some shit code sending a texture to the client 66 times per second to animate a flame 21:52 erle i mean it tried 21:52 erle i doubt it worked well 21:53 erle something like that 21:53 erle it was eventually fixed, but let's say the arrogance of people who have computers that are better than the once of bug reporters usually knows no bounds 21:53 erle ones 21:53 erle damn 21:54 erle i slur my words in chat again 21:54 erle when i was making a synthesizer library (libglitch) i chose the worst computer i had access to on purpose to create it 21:54 erle because that forced me to not be overconfident in terms of resource consumption 21:54 erle i can not remember *ever* getting reports about bad performance 21:54 muurkha naw, you didn't develop libglitch on an Arduino 21:54 erle i had no arduino 21:54 appguru erle: btw do you know of a satisfying solution of attributing memory consumption? 21:54 muurkha they were easy to get 21:55 erle muurkha, i had difficulties paying my rent 21:55 erle muurkha i was a poor student 21:55 appguru as in, profiling memory usage to determine the "hotspots" 21:55 muurkha how much was your rent? 21:55 erle can't remember, my parents paid it. the difficulty was that they threatened not paying it unless i … don't talk publicly about not being monogamous for example. they have since come around hehe. 21:56 erle when i was invited to a wedding, the groom reacted in a very vile verbal manner to my query “my wife can not come, can i just attend with my girlfriend?” 21:56 muurkha oh, well, that's a situation that definitely limits your autonomy to spend money on Arduinos 21:56 muurkha ugh, sorry to hear that 21:57 erle i did not want to go anyway 21:57 erle but my parents were like “don't talk to our child like that” hehe 21:57 erle i mean, i was of age 21:57 muurkha nice 21:58 erle i guess it's like the saying “me against my brother; me and my brother against my cousin; me, my brother & my cousin against the entire village” or so 21:58 muurkha my parents were surprised to hear I was dating someone else just before my wedding in March and suggested that maybe if my fiancée and I were going to be serious I shouldn't do that. I said I didn't think her boyfriend would appreciate that 21:58 erle like the groom was overstepping his bounds in verbally abusing me because we were not related 21:58 erle muurkha what was the reaction 21:59 muurkha they recalibrated their worldview 21:59 erle hehe 21:59 erle yeah so said groom was kinda not okay with my then-wife and my then-gf being okay with the situation, so 21:59 erle let's say i did not go to the wedding 21:59 erle later i met him on some family gathering and asked him if he wanted to talk about it 22:00 erle and he said no from his POV the issue is done 22:00 erle so i no longer talk to him at all 22:00 erle to get back to technical things: i am pretty sure you could do the libglitch thing on arduino, but 22:00 erle libglitch is python 22:01 erle not sure if performant 22:01 erle it's a python implementation of something that relies on a header from an (objective?) C app that ended up on some pastebin 22:01 erle so i'm pretty sure it's not that hard 22:01 erle muurkha, i remember your bytebeat page now! 22:03 erle for everyone else: here is libglitch https://github.com/erlehmann/libglitch and here is the bytebeat page http://canonical.org/~kragen/bytebeat/ 22:03 erle > At Fábrica de Fallas last weekend, I played a piece (nameless then, now called Crowd, licensed CC-BY) on an Arduino, and it attracted a crowd and some positive attention 22:04 erle muurkha is the ”been there done that” person in this conversation hehe 22:04 muurkha haha, yes 22:04 muurkha I learned recently that people are using Crowd as part of a test suite for NES emulators 22:05 muurkha they ported it to 6502 assembly! 22:05 erle neat 22:05 erle i once got an email that someone used my redo implementation for some neuroimaging pipeline on windows and ran into a problem with path lengths 22:05 erle that was … unexpected 22:05 muurkha nice 22:05 erle well i doubt i fixed it ever 22:05 erle it is the one thing that i should fix in redo though 22:06 muurkha it sounds like the kind of thing that's not hard to work around 22:06 erle i mean, putting everything in a .redo folder at the base of the build hampers composability between different projects 22:06 erle i mean every other build system seems to get this wrong too 22:06 erle but 22:06 erle the correct thing is *probably* to put the info in the same folder as the target 22:06 erle people hate it though 22:06 erle like if they have binary and then binary.ctime and binary.md5sum 22:07 erle and binary.dependencies and binary.dependencies_ne 22:11 muurkha as the target? 22:12 muurkha that would make it impossible to have a build subdirectory you can blow away 22:12 erle wdym 22:13 erle it's already difficult, so 22:13 muurkha which is pretty crucial for having multiple build configurations for the same source code. like debug vs. release, or native-code compilation for testing in Linux vs. cross-compilation for deployment to the target on a different arch 22:13 erle i tell everyone to just use an overlay mount instead of bloating the build system 22:13 erle you want an out-of-tree build? just overlay mount 22:13 muurkha oh, I guess an overlay mount would maybe solve the problem 22:13 erle haha 22:13 erle you are the *first* person saying that as the first response 22:13 erle and not ”BUT I DO NOT WANT AN OVERLAY MOUNT YOU HAVE TO IMPLEMENT THIS” 22:14 erle like usually i have to actually explain that overlay mounts are good 22:14 erle and they probably already rely on them because dockers 22:14 muurkha well, I'm not really in a position to dictate to you how to write your software 22:14 muurkha but yeah before docker I basically never used them 22:14 erle you never even tried plan9? 22:14 muurkha and so I think of them as a pretty heavyweight solution 22:14 muurkha no, I never had hardware it could run on 22:14 erle are you *sure* 22:15 erle i suggest to try plan9. it's a … weird … experience that makes you nostalgic for a future that never has been 22:15 muurkha by the time I learned about it, VESA local-bus video cards were getting pretty thin on the ground 22:15 muurkha cisco was using it for all their development for a while 22:15 muurkha and going around buying up all the VLB motherboards they could find 22:16 erle uh 22:16 muurkha I did actually have a VLB motherboard but my video card was PCI 22:16 erle you can just use an old thinkpad though? 22:16 muurkha so Plan9 didn't support it 22:16 muurkha maybe that's true now? there was no such thing as an old Thinkpad at the time 22:16 erle i mean if you have access toone 22:16 erle oh it could be 22:16 muurkha and Plan9 stagnated for ten years after that 22:16 muurkha because it wasn't free software 22:16 erle yeah, that's plan9s original sin 22:17 erle i want filesystem namespaces everywhere :( 22:17 muurkha anyway it's pretty inspirational 22:17 erle the thing is even though plan9 stagnated, it has these weird nice things 22:17 muurkha but bind mounts in Linux aren't as ready-to-hand as they are in Plan9 22:17 erle i think to do NAT you mount two /net filesystems on top of each other or so? not sure, that sounds like a weird fever-dream 22:18 muurkha something like that, you mount a server's network interface 22:24 erle muurkha, i can strongly suggest to look into the rc shell, the standard shell of plan 9 (and i think unix 10) 22:24 erle it has a bunch of nice improvements over sh 22:24 erle and the paper on its design is pretty useful if you want to choose any shell 22:26 muurkha what do you think about es and oil? 22:28 erle i read the design documents of the oil shell and i think it's similarly well-researched and well-written, but obviously much more ambitious than rc 22:28 erle i do not know es 22:28 erle the reason i use rc is because grammar fits in head 22:32 muurkha es is http://wryun.github.io/es-shell/ 22:32 muurkha see also https://web.archive.org/web/20140224211945/http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man1/es.1.html 22:33 erle i use rc as my daily shell 22:33 erle mainly because of the superior support for redirection 22:33 erle and bc it has way less footguns than sh (they all got neutered) 22:34 erle muurkha, thanks, if es is derived from rc i *probably* should look into it even more (when i am less sleepy) 22:34 erle it is a bit after 00:30 here in my timezone 22:34 muurkha you might like it 22:40 erle muurkha, i might, thanks.