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MinetestBot |
erle: Aug-25 13:09 UTC <kyle56_has_conne> hmm thats odd. i guess to compensate for stuff like that, i'd say that a client side option should act as a % tweak maybe. so like if you have to set it to 90% and the server game wants your near plane to be 0.1 then is set to 0.09 for example. |
| 11:36 |
erle |
it would be kinda bizarre to want this as a server setting in the first place, seeing that it is dependent on hardware features |
| 11:36 |
erle |
btw, wireframe does not work on vivante GPU (and possibly others, idk) |
| 11:41 |
luatic |
it is not at all bizarre for a game to want to control this. but yes, just like the rest of the camera API, this should be a clientside (SSCSM) API. |
| 11:42 |
erle |
luatic as i said before: if engine developers can't get this right, i have a very low confidence that game devs can get this right |
| 11:44 |
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| 11:45 |
erle |
luatic there exist a bunch of things that only become a bad idea once you account for the human in the loop. remember the time when someone “helpfully” suggested to kick players that had oversized inventory “so the server does not crash”? absolute evil! |
| 11:45 |
erle |
(google bookbanning) |
| 11:46 |
erle |
luatic btw, do you have any idea regarding backwards compat for the model compatibility offensive introduced in 5.9 that makes the head of the player model be in the crotch? |
| 11:47 |
erle |
like, from an engine point of view, is it easily possible to support both old and new models in a client without grandfathering the old ones in, e.g. via hash? |
| 11:47 |
erle |
i know you won't do it for purity reasons, but there's someone who makes a minetest-client-but-with-irrlicht and that someone is interested |
| 12:06 |
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| 12:09 |
luatic |
i'm confused. i'm not aware of a change in 5.9 that would "make the head of the player model be in the crotch"? |
| 12:11 |
luatic |
also, "minetest-but-with-irrlicht" sounds weird, that's what luanti is, except we've forked irrlicht. and having delved into irrlicht code more than i would have liked to, i can tell you the ability to modify it is worth a lot. |
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MinetestBot |
[git] Desour -> luanti-org/luanti: Builtin profiler: Capture Tracy zones; And small improvements (#16479) 6949720 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/69497200f9d0c0cd17c9c2324d5601ab63b3e158 (2025-09-08T16:27:26Z) |
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| 18:36 |
bgstack15 |
I see Luanti has a history of the console commands, but it appears to only work for the current session. Closing and re-opening Luanti loses all the console command history. https://docs.luanti.org/for-players/console/#history |
| 18:36 |
bgstack15 |
Is there a way to keep it across restarts of the client? |
| 18:38 |
jonadab |
The obvious way to do that would be with a client-side mod. Though the most obvious way to do a thing, isn't necessarily always the best way. |
| 18:39 |
jonadab |
But in this case, it might actually be the best way, because command history feels like a UI feature to me. |
| 18:40 |
jonadab |
That leaves the question of whether the CSM should keep one global history that applies to local games and all servers, or separate ones for each. |
| 18:58 |
bgstack15 |
Well, I found a CSM for logging the chat. I was more interested in the command history. |
| 18:58 |
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| 20:15 |
jonadab |
Yeah, I wasn't claiming that the CSM exists, only that that would be the logical way to approach the problem. |
| 20:15 |
jonadab |
Though logging the chat also seems useful, at least to me. |
| 20:18 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> The simplest way is to have one chat history, kind of like how .bash_history is usually just a single file with every command listed in it. |
| 20:19 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> In some clients (I'm not sure about stock minetest), you can log any text that you send using something like minetest.register_on_sending_chat_message(chateffects.send) . |
| 20:20 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Where chateffects.send is the name of the function that handles messages. |
| 20:24 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> For instance, here's a client-side mod that replaces certain characters with other characters: |
| 20:24 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1414707957232439460/chateffects_example.txt?ex=68c08cf5&is=68bf3b75&hm=d23cfb0bef30800ffb8aa5b7abd4de9d5b79f9987eb2fd9763e90d91dbaab656& |
| 20:25 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> If you want your commands to be saved to a file, you'd probably have to enable "unsafe" mods in your minetest settings. You'd also probably need to write a function that checks that the text contains a / or . before saving it to a command history file. |
| 20:26 |
jonadab |
Assuming you only want to save commands, and not everything, yeah. |
| 20:27 |
jonadab |
My instinct would be to make it work like e.g. .bash_history i.e., save everything the user types whether it's a valid command or not. |
| 20:27 |
jonadab |
But suppress duplicates, probably. |
| 20:27 |
jonadab |
But I'm not the one who wants the mod, so my instincts are possibly not the same as what he would want. |
| 20:28 |
jonadab |
There's also the question of when to rewrite the file. You could do it after every command, but you might not want to. You might prefer to write it on disconnect, or something. Dunno. |
| 20:30 |
bgstack15 |
I would want the chat history to be populated by the history when the client starts up again. Is that possible, do you think? |
| 20:30 |
bgstack15 |
(I would expect a logging utility to merely append to a file; but that's an implementation detail we don't need to concern ourselves with here) |
| 20:30 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> The answer to "is that possible" is usually "yes". However, I don't know how I would do that. |
| 20:31 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Just wondering, why do you need the command history? |
| 20:31 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Maybe it would be easier to write a client-side mod that runs various commands one after another if you're doing the same thing over and over again. |
| 20:34 |
jonadab |
My instinct says worldedit is probably involved, but that's only a guess. |
| 20:35 |
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| 20:47 |
erle |
luatic have you ever sent a patch to irrlicht upstream though? |
| 20:48 |
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| 20:48 |
erle |
bgstack15 jonadab if you are interested in people who make CSMs, join oysterity anarchy server. quite a lot of people there use custom clients that e.g. have enhanced sccript APIs |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Yeah, and also the Team Acedia discord. |
| 20:48 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> The Oysterity server is cool, but the discord server is quite dead at the moment. |
| 20:48 |
erle |
and sometimes these are very useful for debugging, but luanti would never add them |
| 20:49 |
jonadab |
erle: I won't play on servers that have PvP combat. |
| 20:49 |
erle |
jonadab you can just idle at spawn and chat with people though |
| 20:49 |
jonadab |
Ah, I suppose. |
| 20:49 |
erle |
like, i do that sometimes when i test performance issues |
| 20:49 |
jonadab |
I'll keep that in mind if I ever want to write a CSM. |
| 20:49 |
erle |
i mean oysterity is … special, so to say |
| 20:49 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Oysterity is a rather laid-back server, with occasional moments of panic if you get caught by surprise. |
| 20:49 |
erle |
haha yes |
| 20:50 |
jonadab |
Which, I potentially might at some point, though at present I don't know what it would be. Don't need a CSM for anything I want to do right at the moment. |
| 20:50 |
erle |
also i once stole an end portal (the one near x=1812) and rebuilt it on the nether roof |
| 20:50 |
erle |
then reported the dig-any-node bug and now that trick can't be repeated |
| 20:50 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Jona, I have a csm for crafting stuff automatically. |
| 20:50 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> There are a lot of things you can do with a csm. |
| 20:50 |
erle |
cora has a CSM for schematics |
| 20:51 |
jonadab |
Hmm, bulk crafting would be a nice CSM. |
| 20:51 |
erle |
like, if you are ever on a mineclonia server and you see a lot of heart-shaped nether portals, that's cora's doing |
| 20:51 |
jonadab |
If the UI is any good. |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> It's great that you mention that. Is there a modern csm for automatically building stuff? |
| 20:51 |
jonadab |
I don't see myself playing on a mineclonia server though. |
| 20:51 |
erle |
ask cora ig? or someone else doing that stuff |
| 20:51 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Idk if irc users can see my attachments, but here it is if you're interested. |
| 20:51 |
erle |
jonadab this stuff is not mineclonia-specific |
| 20:51 |
erle |
i can't see any attachment |
| 20:51 |
jonadab |
Right, crafting would be relevant in a lot of games. |
| 20:52 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1414714923195568169/init.lua?ex=68c09371&is=68bf41f1&hm=77047319f7f7879a6555e1bf77b2212eeb2e783d604c1da4937865eb888126c3& |
| 20:52 |
erle |
now i see it |
| 20:52 |
erle |
btw some servers (e.g. oysterity) have rail lines from the origin to the map edge |
| 20:52 |
erle |
these are made using the railbot CSM |
| 20:53 |
erle |
nathan why you need the autocrafter in the first place? |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> To make building stuff les tedious. |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> less* |
| 20:54 |
bgstack15 |
Alas, I don't think I need CSM development. I mean, I might, but it looks kinda like regular mod development so I might not need specific help? |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> I actually created a pull request for a minecraft-style crafter block in mineclonia, but I don't think it's ever getting added. |
| 20:54 |
jonadab |
erle: At the moment, I don't. |
| 20:54 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> It's been months since there has been any activity on that PR. |
| 20:55 |
jonadab |
(Or, well, pipeworks autocrafters do enough.) |
| 20:55 |
jonadab |
But I can see how it would be useful. |
| 20:55 |
jonadab |
And yes, the use case would be to make it less tedious to make stacks of certain kinds of things. Particularly things with non-stackable crafting ingredients. |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Also, another reason is to quickly replenish tools that break. |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> For instance, here is my csm for automatically crafting flints once they break. |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1414716031045341335/init.lua?ex=68c09479&is=68bf42f9&hm=f8f62cb80c4568453b5e76b852d12cf2309dfcaf00af44c97f12cbbc90393dbf& |
| 20:56 |
erle |
athan mineclonia has a “put all the stuff in the crafting grid for the current recipe” button |
| 20:56 |
erle |
also nathan maybe use a proper pastebin instead so it gets preserved for posterity |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Yes, but that still requires manual interaction. |
| 20:56 |
erle |
like https://mister-muffin.de/paste |
| 20:56 |
jonadab |
Eh, once I've been in a world for a decent amount of time, I don't break tools any more, I repair them. |
| 20:56 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Maybe someday. ;) |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Flints aren't worth repairing. |
| 20:57 |
erle |
bgstack15 the thing about CSM development is that luanti does not have much of it with it. whereas e.g. the client waspsaliva comes with a range of CSMs you can learn from. |
| 20:57 |
erle |
and improved CSM APIs |
| 20:57 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Cloakv4 is the latest client with good CSM support. |
| 20:57 |
erle |
yay \o/ |
| 20:57 |
erle |
e.g. killaura is funny: hit everything on a list. like, all mobs if you idle. |
| 20:58 |
erle |
according to legend cora several times killed a server admin on clamity who liked to snoop on players by teleporting close to them and doing a flyby hehe |
| 20:58 |
jonadab |
I don't know that I've ever used a flint tool, other than flint and steel, and I don't think I've ever used that enough times to break it. Typically you just occasionally light a permanent fire in a hearth or someplace (on a coal block, usually) for aesthetic purposes. Like, once every twenty or thirty builds. |
| 20:58 |
erle |
waspsaliva also has auto-eat |
| 20:59 |
erle |
and one of the funniest: kamikaze mode. just homes in on the target, unarmed, and punches it. |
| 20:59 |
erle |
after respawning, does it again |
| 20:59 |
erle |
repairing is not the same in every game. i think in some games repairing costs xp (like mineclonia when using the anvil) or disenchants things (like mineclonia when using the grindstone) |
| 21:00 |
erle |
and i think i have also seen code that makes repairing things more difficult to repair in the future |
| 21:00 |
jonadab |
I was thinking Technic repair. |
| 21:01 |
jonadab |
Most of my experience playing, is with Pipeworks/Technic/Mesecons installed. |
| 21:01 |
erle |
anyway, CSMs are often viewed as “you can cheat with that” but in my experience that's only really true for PvP |
| 21:01 |
erle |
of course if you have a dupe, you can dupe faster using a CSM :P |
| 21:01 |
erle |
but who has dupes anyway hehehehehe |
| 21:02 |
bgstack15 |
My servers are only ever survival mode Mineclonia or MTG. I'm kinda boring. |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> You can always duper water. |
| 21:02 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Survival mineclonia is the best kind of server. |
| 21:02 |
erle |
mineclonia is not boring, it has exquisite fun times |
| 21:02 |
FeXoR |
Middle mouse button crafts 10, shift+left mouse button on craft output a stack. So not sure why a CSM. |
| 21:02 |
erle |
and since v rewrote the redstone stuff, it works well |
| 21:02 |
erle |
you can make flying machines easier |
| 21:02 |
jonadab |
Cheating isn't particularly of interest to me, except insofar as how servers can be set up to deter griefing. |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Fexor, but a csm can let a player idle for hours next to a mob farm and automatically condense the items into solid blocks. |
| 21:03 |
erle |
and since dispensers are movable, you can even make a flying machine that bombs using TNT (if you have enough TNT) |
| 21:03 |
jonadab |
(Which is mostly about area protection.) |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Protections can also facilitate griefing. |
| 21:03 |
erle |
i think area protection is bullshit in terms of griefing protection |
| 21:03 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> If someone lavacasts a protected spawn, it is inescapable unless an admin removes the cobble. |
| 21:03 |
erle |
look at the servers that have no griefing but a sizeable audience, they are almost always nodecore |
| 21:03 |
erle |
(if they have no protection) |
| 21:04 |
erle |
i once made a funny thing with protection nodes. i found a small space near spawn of a server and made a machine that had a dispenser with a button which was fed by double chests with a few valuable items and a lot of trash. |
| 21:04 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Also, it's usually possible to harvest protected plant farms by pouring water from a decent height above them. |
| 21:04 |
erle |
i then protected that thing |
| 21:04 |
jonadab |
If your protected spawn area can be lava-flooded, you did it all wrong. |
| 21:05 |
erle |
no one could actually take out the goods |
| 21:05 |
erle |
so new players would sit around the machine and press the button |
| 21:05 |
erle |
like rats in a skinner box |
| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Kinky. |
| 21:05 |
erle |
i saw it as an art piece, reduce the game down to it's essentials |
| 21:05 |
erle |
press button, receive a random reward |
| 21:05 |
jonadab |
Which, granted, I once played on a server where the admins had done that wrong, and someone did lava-flood the area around the spawn pavillion. I fixed it, and installed a protected glass roof directly above the protected area. |
| 21:05 |
erle |
unfortunately i got banned when an admin showed up and saw what was going on |
| 21:06 |
erle |
apparently having fun like that was BANNED |
| 21:06 |
jonadab |
(And then a week or so later the server went offline. Which I should've seen coming, given how inactive the server operators were.) |
| 21:06 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Jonadb, was this kay27's mineclone 5 server? |
| 21:06 |
erle |
but i laughed a lot when i saw people would not mine and instead press that button until they got a valuable item |
| 21:06 |
erle |
they dropped the shitty items, which i then filled into the chests again |
| 21:06 |
erle |
so the chances became lower and lower to win a prize hehe |
| 21:07 |
jonadab |
It wasn't a mineclone server, no. I don't have any interest in mineclone. |
| 21:07 |
erle |
most protection is just annoying to me |
| 21:07 |
erle |
IIRC cora and li0n and me once went to a your-land (i think?) |
| 21:08 |
erle |
a server with cities surrounded by wilderness |
| 21:08 |
erle |
you could claim a plot in the city and elect a mayor or something |
| 21:08 |
erle |
well, we ventured outside of the city and setup a treehouse and defended it against mobs hehe |
| 21:08 |
jonadab |
Or you could just go out into the wilderness and build (and protect) whatever you want, sure. |
| 21:08 |
jonadab |
Yeah, I did the same thing on, umm, li-fo I think it was. |
| 21:08 |
erle |
protected areas rarely have roofs actually |
| 21:09 |
erle |
they are a single stack of sand nodes away from being lightly griefed |
| 21:09 |
erle |
and a bunch of lava and water away from being lavacast |
| 21:09 |
jonadab |
There's not a lot of point in protecting an unroofed area. |
| 21:09 |
erle |
though i must say that lavacasting unfortunately still does not work well, because viscosity was only applied to the inflow last i checked |
| 21:09 |
erle |
like, water and lava drop at the same speed |
| 21:10 |
erle |
which makes “build stairs and put lava source and water source at the top to make a giant cobble triangle” not work well |
| 21:10 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> That's why you put lava first, let it spread, and then put water in ways that don't break the source block. |
| 21:10 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> I don't usually build stairs when I do it. |
| 21:10 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Just a block to place the lava on, and another block to cover the lava source. |
| 21:10 |
erle |
it's not necessarily about the source block. it's about the fact that any interruption of the flow makes holes in the cast |
| 21:10 |
erle |
i once did a pure-lua patch to fix that |
| 21:11 |
erle |
basically, if you make an abm that slows down lava dropping or makes water drop faster the bug is virtually fixed |
| 21:11 |
erle |
in any case, the issue is that fluids flow into spaces at different speeds, but flow out of spaces at the same speed |
| 21:11 |
erle |
(if i am wrong about that, i want proofs) |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Speaking of killaura (from earlier), there are a lot of things that you do to "tune" a cheat so that it looks more legit. Here's an example of only killauraing players that are in direct line of sight, so it doesn't kill people through walls: if (core.settings:get_bool("killaura.legitaura") and target_enemy ) then local pos = truncate_pos(player:get_pos()) local enemy_pos = truncate_pos(target_enemy:get_pos()) local |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
has_los = not is_block_between(pos, enemy_pos, 1.0) if (not has_los) then return end end |
| 21:13 |
jonadab |
At first I thought that statement made no sense (thinking of flowing from space A to space B as flowing out of A and into B), and then I realized that by "flowing out of" you meant drying up when the source is removed. |
| 21:13 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> The full version of this code is available on github. |
| 21:14 |
erle |
maybe provide a link? |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Here's the line-of-sight function: -- Returns true if there is a solid block between pos1 and pos2. local function is_block_between(pos1, pos2, step) step = step or 0.5 -- How far apart to sample along the ray local diff = vector.subtract(pos2, pos1) local total_distance = vector.length(diff) local direction = vector.normalize(diff) local steps = math.floor(total_distance / step) for i = 1, steps do |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
local sample_pos = vector.add(pos1, vector.multiply(direction, i * step)) local node = minetest.get_node_or_nil(sample_pos) -- Consider only nodes that are not air or ignore --if node and node.name ~= "air" and node.name ~= "ignore" then if node and not string.find(node.name, "air", 1, true) and not string.find(node.name, "ignore", 1, true) and not string.find(node.name, "water", 1, true)then |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
--local node_def = minetest.registered_nodes[node.name] -- Check if the node is considered "solid" (walkable), you might -- adjust this logic depending on what you consider a blockage. -- if node_def and node_def.walkable then return true -- Solid block found along the path. --end end end return false -- No solid blocks found. end |
| 21:14 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> One moment. |
| 21:15 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Here it is: https://github.com/TeamAcedia/CloakV4/blob/main/builtin/cheats/combat.lua |
| 21:16 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Though the line-of-sight thing is called "throughwalls" in their version. |
| 21:59 |
luatic |
nathan4220776: just so you know, this looks horrenduous on an IRC client as your message is broken across multiple messages; the markdown markup of the code block is lost. |
| 22:03 |
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| 22:04 |
luatic |
erle: i have not submitted something to irrlicht yet. i think most of the changes i've done to irrlichtmt would require considerable work to port to irrlicht. |
| 22:05 |
luatic |
if you or i wanted to test the waters, you could submit the matrix4.h diff from https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/8719a816e723f48e78480107e4d8e9056f45da8a#diff-33e46fb90be14c977a2a8e33c23b96a3147b4e1962e95f6ef4558de64350f051. (this is a clear bugfix, but changes behavior) |
| 22:07 |
MTDiscord |
<nathan4220776> Ok. That's good to know. |
| 22:33 |
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