| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:15 |
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| 00:15 |
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| 00:49 |
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| 01:35 |
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| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
ahhgghhgh |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
i found my mapgen's problem..... i am creating it earlier than the nodedef name id mapping is initialized |
| 04:16 |
darkrose |
did celeron55 actually refer to me as sane? weird |
| 04:18 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 04:21 |
hmmmm |
is it just me, or does the focus for mostly everybody else seem to be on the grahpics aspects of minetest? |
| 04:22 |
VanessaE |
hard to say |
| 04:26 |
darkrose |
yeah, seems that way recently... people want to do what they can easily see results for |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
alright! |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
i'm so happy my mapgen works |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
now it's time to fix the lighting |
| 04:27 |
hmmmm |
the entire world is dark for some reason *shrug* |
| 04:27 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: get with taoki on that, she's been fiddling with it |
| 04:28 |
hmmmm |
"she"? |
| 04:28 |
hmmmm |
is it just me or does it seem like there's a lot more girls involved with minetest |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
but erm, no, taoki is changing the lighting model, i'm just trying to add light to the blocks i just generated |
| 04:29 |
VanessaE |
that's a good thing ain't it? :-) |
| 04:30 |
hmmmm |
i guess.... i'm not particularily worried about the lighting model tot be honest |
| 04:30 |
VanessaE |
ah, gotchya |
| 04:30 |
hmmmm |
s/tot/to/ |
| 04:30 |
hmmmm |
lots of typos today |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
i am clueless |
| 04:58 |
hmmmm |
i have no idea what i am doing wrong |
| 05:18 |
|
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| 05:50 |
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celeron55 joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:04 |
celeron55 |
hmmmm: i don't quite understand the amount of females here either... these days it's like half of active developers |
| 06:04 |
celeron55 |
or, well, develiper-ishes |
| 06:05 |
VanessaE |
didn't I read somewhere recently about there being an uptick of women in IT in general? |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
hey good thing you're here, i am having lots of trouble with the lighting - everything is pitch black unless i turn fly mode on |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
and i did not change anything in the lighting update portion of the mapgen |
| 06:10 |
hmmmm |
what is the best way to debug lighting? |
| 06:12 |
celeron55 |
"everything is pitch black unless i turn fly mode on" wtf? |
| 06:12 |
celeron55 |
that doesn't even make any sense assuming you've done anything even remotely right 8D |
| 06:12 |
hmmmm |
when i turn fly mode on, then everything except for the sky is black |
| 06:13 |
celeron55 |
ah, that way |
| 06:14 |
hmmmm |
perhaps i should light up some citranella candles, that'll debug the lighting 8) |
| 06:16 |
* darkrose |
groans |
| 06:16 |
celeron55 |
i don't remember how the mapgen lighting gets the initial sunlight at top, or so |
| 06:16 |
celeron55 |
try forcing the top plane of your generated area to have sunlight just before the lighting step |
| 06:16 |
hmmmm |
i changed absolutely NOTHING there |
| 06:17 |
celeron55 |
and make sure it's the top plane of the area used in the lighting step, and double-make sure the area is in fact correct |
| 06:18 |
celeron55 |
oh |
| 06:18 |
celeron55 |
now i know |
| 06:18 |
celeron55 |
the key is this bool inexistent_top_provides_sunlight = !block_is_underground; |
| 06:19 |
celeron55 |
+: |
| 06:19 |
celeron55 |
you should set inexistent_top_provides_sunlight to true if the top of your genreated area (=volume) is generally exposed to the sky, and otherwise to false |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
it is :| |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
i ruled the possibility of that being the problem out |
| 06:20 |
celeron55 |
then try what i suggested |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
right |
| 06:20 |
celeron55 |
maybe you don't have an "inexistent top" for some reason |
| 06:22 |
celeron55 |
of course you could try printing out stuff at both sides of the top boundary to see what you have |
| 06:23 |
celeron55 |
if the stuff at the top hasn't been generated, it should be full of CONTENT_IGNORE; then the lighting code will automatically use that parameter to guess if sunlight is coming in |
| 06:24 |
hmmmm |
hrmmmmmm |
| 06:25 |
hmmmm |
tell me more about that *opens up voxelalgorithms.cpp* |
| 06:26 |
hmmmm |
does the current mapgen have that top that hasn't been generated? |
| 06:26 |
celeron55 |
when it doesn't have, then it doesn't have |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
i pass along node_min and node_max, not full_node_min and full_node_max |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
i should be generating the area from node_min to node_max |
| 06:27 |
celeron55 |
pass along to where |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
to the updateLighting |
| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
as it was originally |
| 06:28 |
celeron55 |
do you mean the bunch of lighting functions, none of whihc is updateLighting? |
| 06:28 |
celeron55 |
the current code does this: |
| 06:28 |
celeron55 |
VoxelArea a(node_min-v3s16(1,0,1)*MAP_BLOCKSIZE, |
| 06:28 |
celeron55 |
node_max+v3s16(1,0,1)*MAP_BLOCKSIZE); |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
htmm |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
hrmm* |
| 06:29 |
celeron55 |
that is the area of lighting update |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
oh i see |
| 06:29 |
celeron55 |
also it checks the node at one higher than node_max.y |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
so the lighting update happens in the area of the full node, except not full in the y direction |
| 06:29 |
celeron55 |
because that is where it knows if sunlight is coming in |
| 06:30 |
hmmmm |
right |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
i need to check for something |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
a lightbulb just popped up in my head |
| 06:36 |
hmmmm |
the current mapgen never generates that top that propogateSunlight checks |
| 06:36 |
hmmmm |
and mine doesn't either, so that can't possibly be the problem... |
| 06:38 |
|
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| 06:44 |
hmmmm |
i just forced overtop_has_sunlight = true for every node regardless of whatever in propogateSunlight and everything's still dark, so that's completely not the problem |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
hello light! |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
i comment out unspreadLight and everything's lit |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
at least now i know where to start, haha |
| 08:19 |
PsionicProgramme |
I am about to setup my build environment on my windows computer based on information in the wiki and readme.txt files. Is there anything else I should know before I start? |
| 08:20 |
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SitDog joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:31 |
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SpeedProg joined #minetest-dev |
| 08:39 |
SitDog |
back :D |
| 08:40 |
SitDog |
I was PsionicProgramme before I shut down my browser. So, I am about to setup the build environment on my windows pc following the instructions on the wiki and the readme.txt file. Outside of that, is there anything I show know? |
| 08:44 |
|
Calinou joined #minetest-dev |
| 09:27 |
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rsiska joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:35 |
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VanessaE[L] joined #minetest-dev |
| 10:56 |
Taoki |
SitDog: Welcome in that case :) I compile on Linux openSUSE myself, so I can mostly help with Linux now. I compiled MT on Windows too though. Just get the dependencies it needs and use cmake to setup from the GIT mostly |
| 10:57 |
* Calinou |
never managed to compile MT on windows |
| 10:57 |
Calinou |
while on linux, you can do that with one bash line |
| 10:58 |
Taoki |
Calinou: On Windows it's hard because you need to get the dependencies as a zip, unpack them somewhere, and point cmake to each |
| 11:00 |
VanessaE |
why does windows have to be so damn complicated in that respect anyway? I mean, every time I hear of someone wanting to compile anything (minetest or not) on windows, it always seems like they'd have an easier time pulling their own teeth. |
| 11:02 |
Taoki |
Just a different structure of OS |
| 11:03 |
VanessaE |
sure, I get that. |
| 11:03 |
VanessaE |
but the tools necessary to build on windows, seems like it's far more complicated. |
| 11:04 |
VanessaE |
..than it has to be I mean. |
| 11:06 |
jin_xi |
Taoki: Did you get RBA to help you with wielding items? if not maybe i can try to help |
| 11:06 |
Taoki |
He'll look into it |
| 11:06 |
jin_xi |
ok |
| 12:35 |
celeron55 |
well, windows lacks a package manager that would host common development tools, libraries and development versions of them |
| 12:36 |
celeron55 |
kind of obvious |
| 12:47 |
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| 13:05 |
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| 13:23 |
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| 13:48 |
PilzAdam |
any thoughts about that: https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/295 ? |
| 13:49 |
celeron55 |
no |
| 13:49 |
celeron55 |
the sounds are there like they currently are for a reason |
| 13:50 |
celeron55 |
perfect timing is very nice for sounds |
| 13:51 |
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| 13:52 |
celeron55 |
the thing could be otherwise completed though, to allow a different sound |
| 13:52 |
PilzAdam |
if its done in Lua other players hear it too |
| 13:52 |
PilzAdam |
and i cant find any code for that in the core |
| 13:56 |
celeron55 |
that is a good point, but it doesn't make it the right way |
| 13:57 |
PilzAdam |
implementing it in c++ would be better, i guess |
| 13:59 |
celeron55 |
this is tricky because the local player is handled as a special case |
| 14:00 |
celeron55 |
stuff should be somehow unified into PlayerCAO with some kind of a local shortcut for the local player |
| 14:00 |
celeron55 |
actually, PlayerCAO doesn't even exist... well, the whateverCAO |
| 14:00 |
celeron55 |
that would eventually allow 3rd person camera |
| 14:01 |
celeron55 |
which is an another good goal i guess |
| 14:01 |
PilzAdam |
it is |
| 14:02 |
PilzAdam |
so i dont have to connect to servers to the nice 3D models ;-) |
| 14:02 |
PilzAdam |
+see |
| 14:26 |
|
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| 14:58 |
PilzAdam |
does this break anything im not aware of? https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/312 |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:52 |
celeron55 |
does it make torches dimmer? |
| 16:00 |
PilzAdam |
you mean the emitted light? |
| 16:01 |
celeron55 |
no |
| 16:01 |
celeron55 |
the vertex lighting values of the torch |
| 16:03 |
celeron55 |
i'd guess no |
| 16:03 |
PilzAdam |
there is no visible diffrenece |
| 16:03 |
celeron55 |
the 1 in getInteriorLight(n, 1, data) makes it one brighter than it'd really be |
| 16:03 |
celeron55 |
i... think |
| 16:04 |
celeron55 |
which makes it the same as before |
| 16:06 |
PilzAdam |
the right one is the new: http://www.zimg.eu/i/632173251 |
| 16:09 |
celeron55 |
does the brightness of non-light-emitting things look reasonable-ish? because it won't be perfectly right with that |
| 16:10 |
celeron55 |
hmm, i think i know what to do |
| 16:11 |
PilzAdam |
http://www.zimg.eu/i/1204086608 |
| 16:11 |
PilzAdam |
torch without light_source and with old torchlike drawtype |
| 16:11 |
celeron55 |
what if you change the 1 to 0 |
| 16:12 |
celeron55 |
ehm... imean |
| 16:12 |
celeron55 |
+" " |
| 16:13 |
celeron55 |
ah well what ever, the fix is good enough, i don't think there's any need to make it perfect because it's a bit nontrivial |
| 16:13 |
celeron55 |
(the logic for a perfect implementation is trivial, but actually making it into an impementation isn't, due to some reasons) |
| 16:15 |
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| 16:21 |
PilzAdam |
changing the 1 to 0 doesnt change anything (visible) |
| 16:23 |
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| 16:27 |
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| 16:34 |
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| 16:39 |
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| 16:46 |
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| 16:52 |
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| 16:58 |
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| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/redcrab/minetest/commit/588db4fcc4b17ca0a884cbebb2b9d1f9ee5b0db7 |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
is this tested? |
| 17:21 |
celeron55 |
or, well, this https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/pull/296 |
| 17:23 |
PilzAdam |
I prefer the c++ version of the minetestmapper |
| 17:23 |
celeron55 |
as far as goes for this commit, that matters zero amount |
| 17:24 |
PilzAdam |
I know, just saying |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
hmm... |
| 17:46 |
celeron55 |
i think 0.4.4 will be released next week |
| 17:47 |
celeron55 |
feature freeze @ this weekend |
| 17:48 |
celeron55 |
i don't think a faster timing than that makes sense |
| 17:49 |
* darkrose |
was actually considering suggesting that soon |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
there is one thing that i want fixed for the release, that i always forget roughly 1 second from when i remember it: the automatic view distance tuner must be fixed |
| 17:49 |
celeron55 |
it's pretty bad at the moment, at least in the 0.4.3 windows build |
| 17:50 |
celeron55 |
i don't know why |
| 18:05 |
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dannydark joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:20 |
dannydark |
Does anyone know if there is a way to tell if a texture is a "dummy" or "real" image when calling it via getTextureRaw()? |
| 18:21 |
dannydark |
I'm trying to get the textured crosshair to fall back to the old style crosshair if the texture isnt found, I have this http://pastebin.com/MjXQNTyF but it doesn't work as I expected it too as "crosshair" is always valid due to the dummy texture being created |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
...who was asking this before? thexyz? |
| 18:25 |
thexyz |
dannydark: you probably need something like this https://gist.github.com/4163048 |
| 18:25 |
celeron55 |
what was it related to |
| 18:27 |
celeron55 |
i'd prefer a different approach (one implemented into TextureSource) but that's small enough to not really be much of a problem |
| 18:28 |
dannydark |
Ah nice, Yeah I was thinking something else would be required but wasn't sure if something like this already existed in the code |
| 18:31 |
dannydark |
I'll take a look at TextureSource and see if I can work out how to get something similar added |
| 18:31 |
celeron55 |
it was talked about on this channel |
| 18:32 |
celeron55 |
i wonder when... |
| 18:32 |
dannydark |
ok I will have a look through the logs see if I can spot the discussion |
| 18:33 |
celeron55 |
http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2012-10-28 |
| 18:33 |
dannydark |
thanks ^_^ |
| 18:35 |
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Sudi joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:36 |
celeron55 |
this is somewhat tricky |
| 18:36 |
celeron55 |
m_sourcecache knows the information, but it cannot be accessed from an arbitrary thread |
| 18:38 |
celeron55 |
i'll try this |
| 18:44 |
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rsiska joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:45 |
celeron55 |
dannydark: try this: https://gist.github.com/4163160 |
| 18:46 |
dannydark |
sorry I was on the phone, ah ok that was quick ^_^ will give that a try thanks |
| 18:46 |
celeron55 |
i haven't tested it, other than that it compiles |
| 18:47 |
celeron55 |
so make sure to tell that 8) |
| 18:47 |
dannydark |
haha will do |
| 18:49 |
Sudi |
is there actually a game in the making or are you just working on a sandbox engine? |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
there is: minetest_game |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
https://github.com/celeron55/minetest_game |
| 18:49 |
Calinou |
minetest is a game AND an engine |
| 18:49 |
Sudi |
well a game has a goal |
| 18:50 |
Sudi |
looks like a sandbox^^ |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
minecraft has a goal now? oops! |
| 18:50 |
Calinou |
not all games have a goal. at all :P |
| 18:50 |
Sudi |
just to make it clear minecraft isn't a game for me either |
| 18:51 |
darkrose |
game: "an activity providing entertainment or amusement" what's this nonsense about a goal? |
| 18:51 |
celeron55 |
in the strict sense of a game, no; it really isn't much, unless you set up some extra rules by yourself |
| 18:51 |
celeron55 |
mainly, a goal |
| 18:51 |
Sudi |
hehe |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
in fact minecraft does have some of that kind of a game in it |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
it is survival |
| 18:53 |
celeron55 |
laughably easy after a few hours of playing, but still |
| 18:55 |
Sudi |
could be fun to see a game like DayZ made with this engine |
| 18:56 |
dannydark |
There is a DayZ mod for minecraft which I have been told is quite good and makes minecraft a lot harder |
| 18:56 |
dannydark |
anyway, celeron55: that patch worked ^_^ |
| 18:57 |
dannydark |
it now falls back to the old style cross hair if the texture isn't found |
| 18:59 |
celeron55 |
dannydark: make it a separate commit if you make something using it |
| 19:00 |
dannydark |
Yeah will do, I'm just setting up a branch now with your patch to do a pull request, then will also update the crosshair texture pull request |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
by the way, what kind of a texture can somebody possibly even want? |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
for a crosshair |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
i don't quite understand |
| 19:01 |
PilzAdam |
see MC texture packs |
| 19:02 |
dannydark |
My brother was working on converting his minecraft texture pack for Minetest and he has a custom crosshair that he wanted to use |
| 19:02 |
PilzAdam |
it let TP creators more freedom to create a new style |
| 19:03 |
PilzAdam |
we should also think about a inventory background |
| 19:03 |
PilzAdam |
RBA already added the formspec elements for that |
| 19:03 |
PilzAdam |
so we just need to create a default background |
| 19:04 |
dannydark |
I guess it stems back to the quake and counter strike era (I think it was quake anyway) where players could change there crosshair etc, my brother for some reason prefers a 4 dot crosshair with a circle in the center :S |
| 19:05 |
dannydark |
That and with the current crosshair I've noticed the lines are sometimes not even depending on the video driver being used |
| 19:05 |
celeron55 |
it doesn't make any sense because there isn't anything to target at :P |
| 19:06 |
dannydark |
like for me on my windows machine using openGL shows the crosshair fine but in D3D9 its uneven (the vertical line isn't the same length as the horizontal line) |
| 19:06 |
Sudi |
hey you are you guys in the need of a better eventsystem= |
| 19:06 |
Sudi |
? |
| 19:07 |
dannydark |
although with D3D11 experimental video driver (found on irrlichts forum) it renders fine :S |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
Sudi: there isn't much of an even system in minetest; only a couple of small localized ones for specific needs |
| 19:07 |
Sudi |
i saw that....thats the reason i ask |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
what are you going to suggest then? |
| 19:08 |
Sudi |
ever used a window lib like wxWidgets or Qt? |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
many times, and got paid for it too |
| 19:09 |
Sudi |
then you probaly know it allows binding of functions or methods to events |
| 19:09 |
Sudi |
something like that |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
yes; but there isn't much use for that in the current way things are structured |
| 19:10 |
Sudi |
to bad |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
i wouldn't call it bad or good :P |
| 19:11 |
Sudi |
true as well |
| 19:11 |
Sudi |
but it allows you to decouple certain systems |
| 19:11 |
celeron55 |
programs can be structured in many ways, none of which is any kind of a silver bullet |
| 19:12 |
Sudi |
i know |
| 19:12 |
Sudi |
but reinventing the wheel everytime you need something like a dispatcher |
| 19:12 |
celeron55 |
you're free to propose how you'd change something, but be prepared to do some actual coding towards it too |
| 19:12 |
Sudi |
yeah no...i would provide the system i have and help with implementation^^ |
| 19:13 |
celeron55 |
(i'm not saying having a consistent event system would be bad at all) |
| 19:15 |
Sudi |
right now i am anyways busy with implementing a smarthome control system |
| 19:15 |
celeron55 |
so where would that event system run; is it a client- or server side thing, or possibly something for scripting, and what about, say, threads? |
| 19:15 |
celeron55 |
and what about networking, and so on... |
| 19:16 |
Sudi |
well the MessageDispatcher can be configured to directly dispatch messages as they come in, delay them or transmit them to other threads to be executet in there context |
| 19:17 |
Sudi |
the system has actually nothing todo with network |
| 19:17 |
Sudi |
that is actually another system i working on right now for my bachelor thesis |
| 19:17 |
Sudi |
syncronizing actors |
| 19:17 |
celeron55 |
and you pretty much have to figure out what would be implemented using it as the first thing too (something considerable) |
| 19:17 |
Sudi |
which also can receive events |
| 19:18 |
Sudi |
other the network as control input |
| 19:18 |
celeron55 |
(preferably something that is badly structured at the moment) |
| 19:19 |
Sudi |
if you find such a peace of code i can see if i can come up with a better solution utilizing the system :P |
| 19:19 |
celeron55 |
to me, not all work is important; and change for the sake of change is _bad_ |
| 19:20 |
Sudi |
not totaly true |
| 19:20 |
Sudi |
if you have old code which works |
| 19:20 |
Sudi |
but is always a hassle to use when implementing new stuff you should change it |
| 19:21 |
celeron55 |
ehm |
| 19:21 |
celeron55 |
if it's always a hassle to use and you replace it with something that isn't, that isn't change for change |
| 19:22 |
celeron55 |
it's change for... the better |
| 19:23 |
Sudi |
....ahh |
| 19:23 |
celeron55 |
i must say you are taking a brave goal in here, because restructuring old code is like the hardest and least rewarding of things a programmer can possibly do 8) |
| 19:24 |
Sudi |
i know and i didn't say a word about doing it |
| 19:24 |
Sudi |
:P |
| 19:50 |
celeron55 |
SitDog: one thing you could try to do is fix that beforementioned (17:50 UTC) render distance adjuster (if you have a faster-than-completely slow computer so that you can easily see it not working) |
| 19:53 |
thexyz |
and here is "first bad" commit https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/commit/ee2d9d973a0397ce244f05d49083250956578780 |
| 19:53 |
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| 19:53 |
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| 19:54 |
celeron55 |
by me 8) |
| 19:54 |
SitDog |
Okay, so I will take a look at the file corruption and this render distance issue as soon as I get my environment setup. I did run into some problems getting setup :) I am using Windows 8 and VS2012. I should have everything resolved soon. |
| 19:54 |
SitDog |
celeron55: Okay, so I will take a look at the file corruption and this render distance issue as soon as I get my environment setup. I did run into some problems getting setup :) I am using Windows 8 and VS2012. I should have everything resolved soon. |
| 19:55 |
celeron55 |
oh, third thing: you could write a howto of setting that kind of an environment up |
| 19:55 |
celeron55 |
i can issue infinite tasks, beware me :-D |
| 19:56 |
dannydark |
SitDog: What problems you having? maybe I can help I also have a enviroment setup on windows 8 with VS2012 |
| 19:57 |
dannydark |
as it is my main develpment enviroment |
| 19:57 |
thexyz |
dannydark: nice, now squash both your commits into one |
| 19:58 |
dannydark |
thexyz: haha yeah I was actually just about to do that ^_^ |
| 20:08 |
VanessaE |
celeron55, is that modify-a-node-in-place code (meta_set_nodedef I think?) going to be pushed to master sometime soon? |
| 20:08 |
SitDog |
dannydark: It looks like I need a few additional dependencies like the .Net framework, installing the manufacturers video driver, and I disabled the UAC. |
| 20:09 |
thexyz |
VanessaE, http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/2012-11-28#i_2668613 |
| 20:10 |
VanessaE |
well it ain't next week, so a feature could still theoretically be added :-) |
| 20:10 |
VanessaE |
but I get the point. |
| 20:11 |
VanessaE |
been discussing realistic uses for that branch, such as mesecons wires and so forth. |
| 20:12 |
VanessaE |
if used properly, it would reduce the initial load on the engine's node registry. |
| 20:17 |
celeron55 |
that is not a concern *at all*... in fact, that was basically nonsense |
| 20:18 |
celeron55 |
i have some stuff in the works that i think will eventually lead to meta_set_nodedef being usable |
| 20:19 |
celeron55 |
a serialization format thingy |
| 20:21 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: ok. |
| 20:23 |
VanessaE |
wait, which part was nonsense? |
| 20:24 |
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| 20:25 |
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| 20:34 |
celeron55 |
VanessaE: "if used properly, it would reduce the initial load on the engine's node registry." |
| 20:34 |
VanessaE |
right. I say that because no one wants to register hundreds of nodes ahead of time and slow down the game startup (or in one case, reporting a crash). |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
like wires, pipes, anything colorized, etc. |
| 20:35 |
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| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
those things could all be condensed down into just a few nodes, speeding up startup of the game, and then modified in realtime when placed/painted/wtc. |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
etc. |
| 20:35 |
celeron55 |
well, yeah; but the choice of the words "initial load on" is nonsense; if you replace that with "crappy flooding of", it makes sense |
| 20:35 |
VanessaE |
ok, "crappy flooding of" :-) |
| 20:36 |
VanessaE |
I was trying to be polite :D |
| 20:36 |
VanessaE |
but I understand if you want to wait. |
| 20:37 |
VanessaE |
it makes more sense to do whatever tweaks you have in mind and release it then, then to just stuff it in now. |
| 20:37 |
celeron55 |
i don't want to wait; i want to make sure the map format won't get screwed up due to directly storing stuff in there that was previously only intended for network transfer |
| 20:38 |
celeron55 |
it needs a robust future-proof format |
| 20:38 |
VanessaE |
gotchya. |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
the current network format of ContentFeatures (node definition) is far from it |
| 20:39 |
celeron55 |
(which is what meta_set_nodedef stores) |
| 20:39 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 20:40 |
VanessaE |
RBA's been testing that branch and is at least satisfied with how to use it, if that's of any interest. |
| 20:40 |
VanessaE |
not that that helps the issue of whether the map format/data is valid. |
| 20:41 |
celeron55 |
i am very interested in that aspect of it, because i won't be personally using it much |
| 20:41 |
dannydark |
SitDog: I don't think you need .Net framework (it should have been installed/updated when you installed VS2012) unless you are setting up a new system? as everything you said above is not needed to compile Minetest, also UAC on windows 8 isnt as much as a problem as it was on Vista/7 so you should be fine to leave that turned on (I have and have probably only seen it popup twice in the last year or so of having windows 8) |
| 20:41 |
celeron55 |
is there anything that should be changed from that viewpoint? |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
checking.. |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:42] <VanessaE> get over to -dev |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:42] <VanessaE> your input is needed. |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:44] <RealBadAngel> imho it shall be merged, tested thx to it |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:44] <RealBadAngel> and fixed when after testing we find bugs |
| 20:44 |
VanessaE |
I'd take that as a "no, no changes needed". |
| 20:46 |
dannydark |
thexyz: Done, sorry it took so long had to quickly go shop before it closed |
| 20:46 |
celeron55 |
RBA has a horrible attitude towards stability |
| 20:48 |
celeron55 |
the only thing i can say to that is "no, it won't work; i won't let you see why" |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
... |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:48] <RealBadAngel> if we FIND bugs than we will HAVE to fix them |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:48] <RealBadAngel> as simply as that |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:48] <RealBadAngel> and nobody will cry for that |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:49] <RealBadAngel> its a development process for christ sake |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
[11-28 15:50] <RealBadAngel> by now we cant even seriously test it because branch is outdated |
| 20:50 |
celeron55 |
if the bugs are bugs that permanently corrupt saved worlds, it's unfixable |
| 20:50 |
VanessaE |
true. |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
and i have some experience of that |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
it's _not_ _fun_ |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
agreed. |
| 20:52 |
celeron55 |
for example screwing up the network protocol is like eating candies compared to that |
| 20:52 |
VanessaE |
right, because that's a small matter of "oops, that was a bug. here, it works now" |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
versus trying to recover a broken map. |
| 20:53 |
VanessaE |
I understand your standpoint perfectly. |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
and even if it would work, the current format is a PITA for version compatibility |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
there is no automation whatsoever for adding or removing stuff |
| 20:53 |
celeron55 |
from what it stores |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
by the way, few hours ago i set up a terminal to print out page loads of the minetest.net main site |
| 20:55 |
celeron55 |
this is fun 8) |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
i'm mainly looking at the referrers |
| 20:56 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 20:56 |
celeron55 |
it's like third google, third nothing and third very random sites |
| 20:57 |
celeron55 |
and there are many page loads per minute |
| 20:58 |
celeron55 |
i hate google because these days it doesn't show the search terms in the referrer address |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
it cycles it's links through a redirect page |
| 21:03 |
celeron55 |
anyway, this seems to result in around 3000 per day |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
it's worse that that - they don't always even include all your search terms in the results. Haven't for years now, but lately it's getting more and more annoying. |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
if I search for "foo bar baz" (without quotes) I damn sure better see all three words in every result. |
| 21:06 |
celeron55 |
well, the search is optimized for the general case |
| 21:06 |
celeron55 |
not that good for programmers and so |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
yeah I know. Still pisses me off... I went looking for clothes last night, kept running into the same thing - search terms, very specific ones, being ignored in favor of "relevant" results. |
| 21:08 |
VanessaE |
pff. |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
you can prefix things with + |
| 21:13 |
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| 21:14 |
VanessaE |
that doesn't work anymore |
| 21:14 |
VanessaE |
I've been using that trick for years |
| 21:14 |
VanessaE |
google just sucks :) |
| 21:14 |
VanessaE |
change of topic: |
| 21:14 |
SitDog |
The worst search is Amazon. The first thing is the item you want followed by 8 pages of garbage. |
| 21:15 |
celeron55 |
ebay sucks too |
| 21:15 |
celeron55 |
basically everything sucks where you can't use OR; at least google allows that |
| 21:15 |
SitDog |
No matter how you restrict the search they want you to look at all this crap. |
| 21:15 |
SitDog |
I was thinking about writing a search to give you the results you want :D |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
another RBA bit of code is a seriously kick-ass inventory mod (especially for creative mode). To make it work, he added a couple of hooks to the Lua API. |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
currenty looks like this: |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
currently* |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
http://realbadangel.pl/inv.png |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
I don't think the proposal for upstream is anything more than adding those hooks - the Lua part will remain a separate mod if you so desire. |
| 21:18 |
celeron55 |
http://c55.me/randomsearch.php |
| 21:19 |
celeron55 |
made that a bunch of time ago |
| 21:19 |
VanessaE |
heh, interesting |
| 21:19 |
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| 21:28 |
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| 21:36 |
VanessaE |
celeron55_: do you have any opinions on that inventory change? |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
or at least, on the API hooks he wants to add? |
| 21:37 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commits/master |
| 22:05 |
celeron55_ |
VanessaE: the idea is fine, but the implementation is not |
| 22:06 |
celeron55_ |
as for what i can quickly see, it logs a non-error to errorstream, uses a stupidly named instance variable, doesn't add documentation to lua_api.txt |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
it's not completed yet. |
| 22:06 |
VanessaE |
still WIP right now, but good points nonetheless. |
