| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:45 |
|
BackupCoder joined #minetest-dev |
| 02:55 |
hmmmm |
here is what i came up with right now: http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#TODO_in_minetest_game |
| 02:55 |
hmmmm |
also i cleaned up and added more things to that page |
| 02:56 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: "add new ores". Calinou's More ores mod. Diamonds mod. Titanium mod. Maybe that one that adds uranium. That's more than enough. |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
and those are stable now. |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
fwiw. |
| 02:57 |
RealBadAngel |
Copper? - need to find uses for this first, perhaps craft bronze? |
| 02:57 |
RealBadAngel |
technic is not enough? |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: yes. moreores adds bronze tools to that end. |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
you guys are missing the point totally |
| 02:57 |
hmmmm |
these are things to be added to minetest_game |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: copper is useful in some recipes also |
| 02:57 |
VanessaE |
RBA uses it in technic f.ex, I use it in homedecor |
| 02:58 |
VanessaE |
tin, too. |
| 02:58 |
VanessaE |
and gold+silver |
| 02:58 |
VanessaE |
yes Iknow that |
| 02:58 |
RealBadAngel |
we are already HEAVILY using all those ores |
| 02:58 |
VanessaE |
there are already many uses for these metals |
| 02:59 |
VanessaE |
so it's more like you'd be adding them much as you'd add a library of useful functions |
| 02:59 |
RealBadAngel |
http://realbadangel.pl/ores.png |
| 02:59 |
RealBadAngel |
complete set of ores |
| 03:00 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: "all mese gear" <-- "mese starter kit" mod. |
| 03:00 |
VanessaE |
diamonds mod covers diamond tools also. |
| 03:00 |
hmmmm |
don't tell me about a mod that doe sit |
| 03:01 |
hmmmm |
i don't care if some mod already does that |
| 03:01 |
hmmmm |
i'll tell you what doesn't do it: minetest_game |
| 03:01 |
VanessaE |
well my point is, we already have code that can do this, so the workload to get these things into minetest_game should be far less than it might otherwise be. |
| 03:01 |
RealBadAngel |
indeed |
| 03:01 |
hmmmm |
obviously |
| 03:01 |
RealBadAngel |
and i voted to merge moreores into minetest_game long time ago |
| 03:01 |
Exio |
i think, BEFORE every ore or anything, a thing needs to get added, foods/farming |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
a lot of those moreores are weird though |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: how so? |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
like the green ore? the purple ore? seriously? |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
eh? |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
i have no idea what those things are and they're not real |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
what green ore? |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
what purple ore? |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
i think it's called alol or something |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
that's gloopores. |
| 03:02 |
RealBadAngel |
lol |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
not moreores. |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
i don't know, weird made up names |
| 03:02 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 03:02 |
VanessaE |
(and it's Arol) |
| 03:03 |
RealBadAngel |
you messed up the mods |
| 03:03 |
VanessaE |
moreores adds, gold, silver, copper, tin, and mithril |
| 03:03 |
RealBadAngel |
http://realbadangel.pl/ores.png |
| 03:03 |
RealBadAngel |
can you see here something purple? |
| 03:03 |
hmmmm |
no idea about mithril |
| 03:03 |
VanessaE |
gloopores/glooptest adds arol, alatro, akalin, talinite, and ...um...I forget the other one. |
| 03:03 |
VanessaE |
mithril is the minetest equivalent to lapis lazuli. |
| 03:03 |
VanessaE |
more or less. |
| 03:03 |
hmmmm |
i see |
| 03:04 |
RealBadAngel |
more |
| 03:04 |
hmmmm |
but lapis lazuli is real |
| 03:04 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 03:04 |
hmmmm |
mithril isn't |
| 03:04 |
VanessaE |
but then, mese isn't real is it? :) |
| 03:04 |
Exio |
lapis lazuli? the lapis lazuli in MC is used for.. erhm |
| 03:04 |
RealBadAngel |
mithril is also real, hobbits can confirm that |
| 03:04 |
hmmmm |
hey i didn't come up with mese nor did i like it |
| 03:04 |
Exio |
blue wool, blue wool, blue armor, and blue wool |
| 03:04 |
hmmmm |
now we just have to roll with it |
| 03:04 |
Exio |
ah! and light blue wool! |
| 03:04 |
hmmmm |
exio, yeah, need to find more uses for it |
| 03:05 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: I'm glad we have it - Mithril can be just another fictional ore. |
| 03:05 |
RealBadAngel |
if you want to oppose mithril because its not real, then why you can live with mese onboard? :) |
| 03:05 |
hmmmm |
i'm not saying we add in moreores as a mod in minetest_game - i'm saying we modify the code in default to have these |
| 03:06 |
hmmmm |
i can't, again i don't like mese |
| 03:06 |
VanessaE |
why? |
| 03:06 |
VanessaE |
what's the point of melding these into default when a mod can just be dropped right in, with only minor tweaks? |
| 03:06 |
RealBadAngel |
that is the one of the things you have to live with :) |
| 03:06 |
RealBadAngel |
its tradition |
| 03:06 |
hmmmm |
it gives the feeling that it's not actually part of the game |
| 03:07 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: naw, not at all. |
| 03:07 |
hmmmm |
besides, it's cleaner that way |
| 03:07 |
VanessaE |
it's not cleaner at all |
| 03:07 |
VanessaE |
because you *must* keep the old node/item names |
| 03:07 |
hmmmm |
so now you have two separate on_generates |
| 03:07 |
RealBadAngel |
i can agree to add the ores to worldgen |
| 03:07 |
hmmmm |
come on =/ |
| 03:07 |
VanessaE |
in which case it makes sense to keep it as a mod. |
| 03:07 |
VanessaE |
ok, sure we have two ore generation routines - so that part could be rewritten |
| 03:08 |
Exio |
well, other thing |
| 03:08 |
Exio |
what about the "translation" lib of kaeza? |
| 03:08 |
RealBadAngel |
but keep in mind almost every mod out there is dependent on moreores |
| 03:08 |
Exio |
for mods |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
so what if we lie to other mods that moreores is already present? |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
it's not hard to do that |
| 03:09 |
RealBadAngel |
sure |
| 03:09 |
hmmmm |
or we just have moreores in there as a 'dummy' |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
and the actual code is cleanly integrated |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: but what about the node/item names? |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
what about them |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
? |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
do you really wanna have people rewrite all those dependent mods? |
| 03:10 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
oh, you mean default:blah moreores:blah? |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
precisely. |
| 03:10 |
RealBadAngel |
keep the namespace |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
aliases are nice but not meant for this sort of thing. |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
aren't you able to reference them without the namespace though |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
no,. |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
crap |
| 03:10 |
VanessaE |
you have to use the namespace. |
| 03:10 |
hmmmm |
i could've sworn you could |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
unless the objects are aliased. |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
and most stuff is not. |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
okay that's a problem then |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
is air aliased? |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
yep |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
ah |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
I think so. |
| 03:11 |
RealBadAngel |
all is |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
ditto for cobble, dirt, etc. |
| 03:11 |
RealBadAngel |
thats why you have been fooled |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
but afaik mostly only the default/legacy stuff is aliased like that |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
aliasing sucks |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
we need to fix aliasing so the name id mapping table is updated when an alias is registered |
| 03:11 |
VanessaE |
everyone else generally uses aliases for backwards compatibility within the same namespace |
| 03:11 |
RealBadAngel |
mese, dirt, cobble all is aliased |
| 03:11 |
hmmmm |
not after the mods run initially |
| 03:12 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: this is why RBA and I argue for keeping the mod self-contained. It's the least amount of work for the perceived benefit. |
| 03:12 |
hmmmm |
after i do the ore thing it won't really matter |
| 03:13 |
VanessaE |
(even if it needs rewritten to use the default ore generator) |
| 03:13 |
hmmmm |
on load, for moreores, it'd just call a couple register_ores() |
| 03:13 |
VanessaE |
right |
| 03:13 |
hmmmm |
instead of having an on_generated callback |
| 03:13 |
RealBadAngel |
genau |
| 03:13 |
hmmmm |
also i was thinking that ores should be generalized into 'decorations' |
| 03:13 |
RealBadAngel |
take the content and add it new and proper way |
| 03:14 |
Exio |
what about just dropping the backward compatibility in some things and doing the things better? |
| 03:14 |
hmmmm |
and maybe i should do the whole DecorationDef ahead of schedule |
| 03:14 |
VanessaE |
Exio: no, fuck no |
| 03:14 |
Exio |
k |
| 03:15 |
hmmmm |
hah such an alive conversation |
| 03:15 |
VanessaE |
DecorationDef? I think I missed that part |
| 03:15 |
hmmmm |
you people sure get excited when you talk about game content |
| 03:15 |
VanessaE |
*scrolls* |
| 03:15 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 03:15 |
hmmmm |
i'll explain it |
| 03:15 |
RealBadAngel |
Exio, thx to 6d facedir all major mods will have to be rewritten |
| 03:15 |
VanessaE |
please do |
| 03:15 |
RealBadAngel |
do you want to piss modders even more? ;) |
| 03:15 |
hmmmm |
ores, cacti, papyrus, trees, grass, are all "decorations" |
| 03:16 |
RealBadAngel |
wait wait |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
and coming with the nether, there are going to be those spines coming from the ceiling made of glowstone |
| 03:16 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: right, though personally I prefer to use terrain, foliage, and resources. |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
that's a decoration too |
| 03:16 |
RealBadAngel |
ores are not decoration |
| 03:16 |
Exio |
RealBadAngel: in any case, "having" to change that will be just changing where it says "moreores:" to "default:" |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
they will be |
| 03:16 |
VanessaE |
stalactites. |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
anyway a decoration will have different decoration types |
| 03:16 |
hmmmm |
you can define it as ore, which would take in an OreDef as its parameter, and it's generated as an ore |
| 03:17 |
hmmmm |
meh that's clumbsy |
| 03:17 |
hmmmm |
you're right, ores are separate from decorations |
| 03:17 |
RealBadAngel |
thats ground content |
| 03:17 |
VanessaE |
ores are resources. |
| 03:18 |
RealBadAngel |
when picked |
| 03:18 |
hmmmm |
so a decoration can be defined as any discrete structure that is placed within a specific biome |
| 03:18 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: that's fair |
| 03:18 |
RealBadAngel |
before it theyre same as stone |
| 03:18 |
RealBadAngel |
agreed |
| 03:19 |
Exio |
hmmmm: if you call "ores" decoration, will that reduce the code complexity for example, or will be just "nothing"? |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
the latter of the two |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
i was just over-classifying things |
| 03:20 |
Exio |
ok |
| 03:20 |
hmmmm |
it'd make things slightly more complex, too, since i'd have to leave room for "decoration-type specific parameters" |
| 03:20 |
VanessaE |
Exio: it's just semantics - a way to describe things for the sake of clarity (in theory ;) ) |
| 03:21 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: about beds... What purpose would they serve? |
| 03:21 |
hmmmm |
but do you guys see how this is coming out? |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
vanessa, setting spawn |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
also skipping nighttime |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
right, I figured that was the idea |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
also home decor |
| 03:22 |
hmmmm |
hey, we can take it from the Home Decor mod |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
I know how they work in general, just wasn't sure if you had something more...eh..game-like in mind. |
| 03:22 |
VanessaE |
homedecor doesn't have beds, but if you wanna use stuff from there, please be my guest. |
| 03:23 |
RealBadAngel |
i know some more common bed uses but the game should be rated differently ;) |
| 03:23 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: get your mind out of the sewer ;) |
| 03:23 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: if you use something from homedecor, let me know what so I can take it out of upstream to avoid conflicts. |
| 03:24 |
VanessaE |
also, the reason I'm so strict re: moreores and friends, is because we don't want a repeat of dyes and wool. |
| 03:24 |
hmmmm |
hey hey hold on a minute |
| 03:25 |
hmmmm |
i'm not doing anything here |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
hm? |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
well you know what I mean |
| 03:25 |
hmmmm |
those were just suggestions because i'm tired of our current minetest_game |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
the royal "you" |
| 03:25 |
VanessaE |
i.e. whoever. |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
and i'm not sure about the bed thing |
| 03:26 |
hmmmm |
does anybody here play minecraft? how do beds work in multiplayer? |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
never played it. |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
but I believe they work the same way |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
you sleep, your spawn point and time are reset. |
| 03:27 |
hmmmm |
they can't skip time for all the other players |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
right of course |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
that's the confusing part |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
unless *everyone* sleeps |
| 03:27 |
VanessaE |
in which case it makes sense |
| 03:27 |
Exio |
the thing is with everybody is sleeping, it skips the night |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
no idea how easy that'd be to do with a mod |
| 03:28 |
Exio |
in singleplayer the "everybody" is one player, and it checks for mobs around |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: trivial I'd best |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
bet* |
| 03:28 |
hmmmm |
so, off topic, but do you guys like my wiki page? :D |
| 03:28 |
VanessaE |
actually yes |
| 03:29 |
VanessaE |
it seems pretty straightforward, clean. |
| 03:29 |
VanessaE |
easy to read |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
i put a lot of effort into making it look neat |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
there used to be a part on the old wiki or maybe the minetest.net page that had an outdated todo list |
| 03:29 |
hmmmm |
any idea on where that went? |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
no clue, the old dev wiki was just a jumbled mess |
| 03:30 |
Exio |
one thing |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
http://dev.minetest.net/MinetestWiki:TODO |
| 03:30 |
VanessaE |
this? |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
no, that's yours I guess |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
http://minetest.net/wiki/doku.php?id=todo |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
or this? |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
that looks like it |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
*clicks link* |
| 03:31 |
Exio |
if something like having ores in decorations makes the code "clean" (the code what does the "hard job") and you can make a wrapper from "generate_ore" to "generate_decoration(ore...)", it doesn't matter |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
ah yes that's it |
| 03:31 |
VanessaE |
ph33r my g00gl3 f00 ;) |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
exio, no, it would take more work than that |
| 03:31 |
hmmmm |
it's a good idea to have them separate |
| 03:32 |
Exio |
oh |
| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
regarding ore generation... have we decided what the algorithm will actually be? |
| 03:32 |
VanessaE |
purely random, perlin, something else? I don't remember |
| 03:34 |
VanessaE |
hmm, and on another note: your wiki is 10000x better than that damn dokuwiki thing the old one used. |
| 03:36 |
hmmmm |
mm yes |
| 03:36 |
hmmmm |
i still have a slight detail to work for that |
| 03:36 |
hmmmm |
to work on* |
| 03:37 |
hmmmm |
if i just add the perlin noise value to the number of ore clusters, it's going to still be spread throughout the generated chunk |
| 03:37 |
hmmmm |
to make it more orderly, i'd have to reduce the granularity on which generateOre works |
| 03:37 |
VanessaE |
hm |
| 03:38 |
VanessaE |
maybe look at the algo used in moreores now, apparently people are rather happy with the veins of ores being found now |
| 03:38 |
hmmmm |
i'll figure it out, i'm sure. but i'm busy this weekend |
| 03:38 |
hmmmm |
nah i know exactly what it does, and that's not how i'm planning on doing it |
| 03:38 |
VanessaE |
oh ok |
| 03:38 |
VanessaE |
just curious |
| 03:38 |
hmmmm |
i'd like to eliminate the need for a perlin noise map if possible |
| 03:40 |
VanessaE |
great, so I'm gonna have to rewrite plants_lib ;) |
| 03:43 |
RealBadAngel |
modders life |
| 03:43 |
RealBadAngel |
hehe |
| 03:44 |
RealBadAngel |
im partially done with texturing nodeboxes |
| 03:44 |
RealBadAngel |
need to finish lua->core transfer of data |
| 03:45 |
hmmmm |
ah! i just remembered a big feature that i neglected to add to the todo |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
? |
| 03:45 |
Exio |
what feature? |
| 03:45 |
hmmmm |
pre-generate map, pre-load map |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
ah |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
yes I think a lot of people will like that. |
| 03:46 |
VanessaE |
it would make Echo's map explore mod obsolete |
| 03:46 |
RealBadAngel |
that would be useful for game modes |
| 03:46 |
VanessaE |
*nod* |
| 03:46 |
hmmmm |
yeah, my idea is that you'd be able to trigger this from the command line |
| 03:46 |
hmmmm |
as well as an option |
| 03:46 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: like /genmap xxx to generate a sphere xxx nodes in radius or some such |
| 03:46 |
hmmmm |
so you'd be able to do minetest --generate 800x800+0+0 --out map.sqlite |
| 03:47 |
hmmmm |
huh? |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
oh, going with X11-style geometry |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
that works too |
| 03:47 |
hmmmm |
that sounds like a worldedit command |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
nope, that's an X11 geometry spec |
| 03:47 |
hmmmm |
i mean your thing about the sphere |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
oh |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
naw, that was just a guess |
| 03:48 |
hmmmm |
what mine does is generates an 800x800 area of the map starting at 0, 0 |
| 03:48 |
VanessaE |
maybe a combo of ideas; when you said command line, I thought the 't' command line. |
| 03:48 |
VanessaE |
right, I know how thos ework |
| 03:48 |
hmmmm |
and there's some sort of default height range that it'd generate which you can modify if so desired |
| 03:48 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 03:49 |
VanessaE |
maybe WxHxL+X+Z |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
and by the option thing i mean like upon creating a new world you have a "Pre-generate?" checkbox which will invoke this same thing |
| 03:49 |
VanessaE |
AH |
| 03:49 |
VanessaE |
ok that makes just as much sense |
| 03:49 |
hmmmm |
yeah |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
also you know when you start up minetest and you need to look around for blocks around you to load |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
even if they've been generated you have to look EVERYWHERE |
| 03:50 |
hmmmm |
i say we have a burst emerge of everything in some radius, behind a loading screen |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
I agree with that |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
with one proviso: |
| 03:50 |
VanessaE |
there needs to be a progress meter visible somewhere. |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
duh |
| 03:51 |
VanessaE |
duh :) |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
what do you think i'd do? |
| 03:51 |
VanessaE |
well how do I know :) |
| 03:51 |
VanessaE |
you mighta chose to draw a screen of purple plasma with yellow polka dots ;) |
| 03:51 |
hmmmm |
that is tempting but i won't |
| 03:51 |
VanessaE |
if there's one thing I try to remember about this channel, it's never to assume :) |
| 03:52 |
hmmmm |
i dunno what do you think |
| 03:52 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 03:52 |
hmmmm |
what if we have the background of loading screens filled up with classic demoscene raster effects |
| 03:52 |
VanessaE |
hehe |
| 03:52 |
VanessaE |
well, you know RBA would love that |
| 03:53 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 03:53 |
hmmmm |
the user would be able to disable it of course |
| 03:53 |
Exio |
add the trolololol sound as background when the world loads :D |
| 03:53 |
Exio |
song* |
| 03:53 |
hmmmm |
i was singing that today after i just had my email account set up |
| 03:53 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 03:53 |
hmmmm |
all the folders except for inbox are in russian |
| 03:54 |
hmmmm |
"tro lo lo lo looooooooooooooooooooooooooooool lol lol loool yaah yaah yaaaaaah yaaaaaah yah yah " |
| 03:55 |
RealBadAngel |
btw |
| 03:55 |
RealBadAngel |
i will have one request for core |
| 03:55 |
VanessaE |
but in all seriousness, something nice on the "waiting media" screen might be nice at some point in the future |
| 03:55 |
RealBadAngel |
need desperately to make one thing in c++ instead of lua |
| 03:56 |
VanessaE |
what? |
| 03:56 |
RealBadAngel |
get all connected nodes of the same kind, starting with given pos |
| 03:57 |
RealBadAngel |
it has a name, i mean the method, deep search or something like this |
| 03:57 |
VanessaE |
such a thing needs a way to limit how far one can search |
| 03:57 |
VanessaE |
either as a count of connected nodes, or as a cuboid range |
| 03:58 |
RealBadAngel |
can have a range, sure |
| 03:58 |
RealBadAngel |
but it is needed for technic wires, pipes and mesecons |
| 03:59 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: you may wish to add to the todo: Find a way to speed up falling sand/gravel - large amounts of it can lag a server all to hell. |
| 03:59 |
hmmmm |
i'll check it out, i agree, it's very unnatural |
| 03:59 |
hmmmm |
<RealBadAngel> get all connected nodes of the same kind, starting with given pos <------------- you mean flood fill? |
| 03:59 |
hmmmm |
well, flood detect :-) |
| 04:00 |
RealBadAngel |
no |
| 04:00 |
RealBadAngel |
The breadth-first search |
| 04:00 |
RealBadAngel |
its graph's method |
| 04:00 |
VanessaE |
hmmmm: think of giving the location of a pipeworks pipe, having C++ give you a list of all pipes that are connected to that first one. |
| 04:00 |
RealBadAngel |
i need it hardcoded |
| 04:00 |
hmmmm |
ya, flood detect. |
| 04:00 |
hmmmm |
oh wait |
| 04:01 |
hmmmm |
you just want the immediate neighborhood of connected nodes? |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 04:01 |
hmmmm |
von neumann? |
| 04:01 |
RealBadAngel |
list of all connections |
| 04:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i have it done in Lua |
| 04:01 |
RealBadAngel |
i need core one just |
| 04:02 |
RealBadAngel |
because of speed, and being called all the time |
| 04:02 |
RealBadAngel |
to maintain realtime connections |
| 04:03 |
RealBadAngel |
ie if user connects something to the circuit |
| 04:03 |
RealBadAngel |
or breaks the circuit and split it into two parts |
| 04:04 |
RealBadAngel |
graph easily solves such problems |
| 04:04 |
hmmmm |
ya... but von neumann or moore? |
| 04:05 |
RealBadAngel |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breadth-first_search |
| 04:05 |
RealBadAngel |
this one |
| 04:05 |
hmmmm |
:| |
| 04:06 |
VanessaE |
two other functions that would be incredibly useful: a function I can call that always returns a list of the highest-elevation nodes in the given range, of the given type. |
| 04:06 |
hmmmm |
you need to know which nodes are connected in order to create a graph |
| 04:06 |
hmmmm |
to find out what is connected you need to find which nodes are of the same type in that neighborhood |
| 04:06 |
RealBadAngel |
input is just the first one |
| 04:06 |
RealBadAngel |
to be checked |
| 04:06 |
VanessaE |
and a function that'll return a randomized list of positions within a given range that are all between A and B number of nodes apart from one another. |
| 04:07 |
RealBadAngel |
goal is to find all connected |
| 04:07 |
hmmmm |
whatever i'll just look at your code and do that |
| 04:07 |
RealBadAngel |
no need, i will write it |
| 04:08 |
RealBadAngel |
just said it should be merged |
| 04:08 |
hmmmm |
oh. i thought you wanted me to do that |
| 04:08 |
RealBadAngel |
:) |
| 04:09 |
RealBadAngel |
also this will be useful for mobs AI |
| 04:09 |
RealBadAngel |
to find a path |
| 04:09 |
RealBadAngel |
when given a graph, reverse from point B to A |
| 04:09 |
RealBadAngel |
and cause mob to follow graph |
| 04:10 |
RealBadAngel |
in this case path will be check for two nodes |
| 04:10 |
RealBadAngel |
ie dirt and air above |
| 04:11 |
RealBadAngel |
or "walkable" and air above |
| 04:11 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: the function I just suggested would be useful for that |
| 04:11 |
VanessaE |
(the one to search for a list of the highest-elevation nodes of the given type) |
| 04:12 |
RealBadAngel |
gtg |
| 04:12 |
RealBadAngel |
bbl |
| 04:14 |
VanessaE |
basically, the two largest functions in plants_lib that add the most CPU are my surface-searching algorithm and the one that finds places thereon to put stuff |
| 05:29 |
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| 06:27 |
hmmmm |
i would honestly rather implement A* |
| 06:27 |
VanessaE |
I think RBA was looking into that one also |
| 06:28 |
hmmmm |
otherwise the mobs would move stupid (but at least not try to move through unwalkable land) |
| 06:28 |
VanessaE |
he looked at about half a dozen or so algorithms before deciding on breadth-first |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
breadth-first isn't like some sort of algorithm that can be used as an alternative to A* |
| 06:29 |
VanessaE |
but if A* makes more sense, go for it |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
you're comparing apples and toilet bowls |
| 06:29 |
VanessaE |
lol |
| 06:29 |
VanessaE |
well I'm just going by the terminology as it was thrown about when he and I were discussing it a while back |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
well from what i understood, when were talking before, he wanted an api to get neighbor nodes of a specific type |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
or of the same type rather |
| 06:31 |
hmmmm |
and i asked him what neighborhood do you want to use and he probably misunderstood |
| 06:32 |
VanessaE |
oh, well I'm thinking months ago, private chat |
| 06:32 |
VanessaE |
we went over a bunch of algorithms for figuring out pipe/tube routing |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
indeed, you're going to want the api i just talked about and maintain a graph data structure too |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
that'll create the graph of the pipeline |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
see, this sort of shit is why we need luajit |
| 06:33 |
VanessaE |
yup |
| 06:33 |
VanessaE |
here's a question: |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
the last time anyone (thexyz) tried luajit, there was no apparent speed advantage, but that was before the advent of things like moretrees vis a vis plants_lib. |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
so I wonder, |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
what would happen if you put it to task with those two mods? |
| 06:34 |
hmmmm |
yeah, i mentioned that in the wiki TODO |
| 06:34 |
VanessaE |
and others of that ilk e.g. snow |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
i don't really care about what speed improvement happens with some selected mods |
| 06:35 |
VanessaE |
*looks at wiki again* |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
the point is that it's faster than it otherwise would've been with any sort of lua mods |
| 06:35 |
VanessaE |
oh I know that, I'm just thinking in terms of what I know to be fairly CPU-intensive mods (as mods go) |
| 06:36 |
hmmmm |
the more you'd be able to do in lua without having to switch to C, the better |
| 06:36 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 06:37 |
VanessaE |
ah there it is |
| 06:38 |
VanessaE |
note to self: try reading the whole page and not just the referenced section. |
| 06:38 |
VanessaE |
fwiw, as I understand all you need to do is link against luajit instead of the regular interpreter. it's supposed to be a drop-in replacement. |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
that's a relief |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
i'm going to try to do that soon as possible then |
| 06:40 |
VanessaE |
I'd need to read more about it, that's what I got from ..eh...I think it was some official luajit wiki or so |
| 06:40 |
VanessaE |
been too long already since I looked |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
i was just reading it too |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
'night |
| 06:40 |
VanessaE |
night |
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| 12:38 |
celeron55 |
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4936 |
| 12:38 |
celeron55 |
wasn't this fixed already? |
| 12:38 |
celeron55 |
did the masterserver announcement code implement the same thing with no fix? |
| 12:39 |
celeron55 |
does curl have some kind of process-global parameters so that this could be avoided completely? |
| 12:41 |
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| 13:05 |
thexyz |
celeron55: fixed |
| 13:05 |
thexyz |
there are no global parameters afaik |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:38 |
celeron55 |
proller__: take note ^ |
| 13:39 |
proller__ |
? |
| 13:41 |
proller__ |
i found And the experimental OpenGL ES driver is here: |
| 13:41 |
proller__ |
https://irrlicht.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/irrlicht/branches/ogl-es/ but not yet tested |
| 13:43 |
celeron55 |
proller__: this fix had to be done on your code: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/fceb465fc9d401aeba901dd59c937a9239bcbb7a |
| 13:43 |
celeron55 |
because of http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4936 |
| 13:43 |
celeron55 |
just so you know 8) |
| 13:44 |
celeron55 |
(it's a common thing with curl and threads) |
| 13:44 |
celeron55 |
proller__: how did the performance go with the proper compiling options or whatever you mentioned... yesterday? |
| 13:44 |
proller__ |
wow, ok |
| 13:45 |
proller__ |
celeron55, not tested, it must be other irrlicht from link ^^^ |
| 13:45 |
proller__ |
today will test |
| 13:46 |
proller__ |
and somebody alreay do it: http://www.pi-fun.com/index.php/search/?search_paths%5B%5D=&query=Irrlicht&submit=Search |
| 13:47 |
proller__ |
but pi slower than odroid in 5-15 times |
| 13:50 |
celeron55 |
i find it surprising i hadn't yet stumbled on that at all while the main article related to minetest in there was posted 2012-11: http://www.pi-fun.com/index.php/blog/dextrusblogs/minetest-optimisation-begins/ |
| 13:50 |
celeron55 |
yes; pi is very slow compared to normal computers |
| 13:53 |
celeron55 |
...by the way, who the hell is this guy? |
| 13:53 |
celeron55 |
he seems to get surprisingly lot right (while getting things wrong too) about minetest's internals while i don't have any memory of him |
| 13:56 |
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| 14:15 |
RealBadAngel |
hi hmmmm |
| 14:16 |
hmmmm |
hi |
| 14:16 |
RealBadAngel |
about algorithm, im using BFS with modifications |
| 14:16 |
RealBadAngel |
ive added there remembering vertex parent |
| 14:17 |
RealBadAngel |
to easily make backwards path |
| 14:18 |
RealBadAngel |
so the graphs is not only representation of connected nodes, but serves also for pathfinding |
| 14:18 |
RealBadAngel |
simple BFS doesnt tell you how you get from one point to another |
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| 16:53 |
* Calinou |
disagrees with debug.txt generation being enabled again |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
not generating it would mean better performance, less disk space and writes done and a more finished feel |
| 16:53 |
Calinou |
or maybe it could just log errors (level 1) |
| 16:54 |
* Jordach |
agrees with Calinou |
| 16:55 |
VanessaE |
what log level is needed to make sure the server just logs crashes? |
| 16:55 |
VanessaE |
(e.g. a mod that fails to load/run) |
| 16:56 |
VanessaE |
in practice that is really all we need |
| 16:56 |
PilzAdam |
1 |
| 17:07 |
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| 17:44 |
thexyz |
hmmmm: I had contacted support, they told me there's no way at the moment to make folders names be in english |
| 17:44 |
thexyz |
though they forwarded request to developers |
| 17:47 |
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| 19:47 |
proller |
sfan5, how you fix it source/Irrlicht/CIrrDeviceLinux.cpp:844: undefined reference to `irr::video::createOGLES2Driver( ? |
| 19:47 |
sfan5 |
what are you tryting to do? |
| 19:48 |
sfan5 |
-t |
| 19:49 |
proller |
compile for arm mali gles2 |
| 19:49 |
proller |
like this ? http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=43635 |
| 19:49 |
proller |
but it 2 years old |
| 19:50 |
sfan5 |
well... |
| 19:51 |
sfan5 |
that means irrlicht did not get linked with the oglesv2 library for the specific platform |
| 20:16 |
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| 20:48 |
proller |
sfan5, COGLES2Driver missed from irrlicht makefile |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
that too |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
the makefile is incomplete |
| 20:48 |
sfan5 |
it misses all files for openglesv2 |
| 20:52 |
sfan5 |
thexyz: @minetest.net addresses available? |
| 20:52 |
thexyz |
yes |
| 20:53 |
thexyz |
I'm not sure for whom should they be given though |
| 20:53 |
thexyz |
celeron55, hmmmm: any ideas? |
| 20:53 |
Jordach |
anyone who deserves one |
| 20:54 |
sfan5 |
anyone involved with minetest / minetest_game development |
| 21:13 |
sfan5 |
it always goes silent |
| 21:15 |
thexyz |
? |
| 21:15 |
thexyz |
I asked for hmmmm' |
| 21:15 |
thexyz |
s, celeron55's opinions |
| 21:16 |
thexyz |
(also, fuck my fingers) |
| 21:16 |
thexyz |
waiting for reply now |
| 21:16 |
thexyz |
hence silence |
| 21:39 |
hmmmm |
yeah what he said |
| 21:39 |
hmmmm |
except involved should be a higher standard |
| 21:39 |
hmmmm |
like someone who regularly develops, not just contributors who made like 3 changes |
| 21:40 |
hmmmm |
but the thing about the folder names doesn't really bug me |
| 21:51 |
proller |
looks like nobody tries to compile irrlicht with OGLES2 on linux |
| 21:53 |
proller |
lot of errors like gles2-ext.h:439:9: error: ‘khronos_int64_t’ does not name a type |
| 21:55 |
hmmmm |
http://i.imgur.com/qaDVDeH.jpg |
| 21:55 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 22:02 |
thexyz |
sfan5: what email address do you want? |
| 22:02 |
sfan5 |
if i would get one i would use... guess.. right! sfan5 minetest.net |
| 22:21 |
hmmmm |
we should set up a mailing list too |
| 22:22 |
hmmmm |
or at least an official engine development forum |
| 22:23 |
hmmmm |
section |
| 22:24 |
hmmmm |
by the way did anybody figure out how to replicate the F10 crash bug (somehow get unicode characters in there) |
| 22:25 |
sfan5 |
unicode chars? |
| 22:25 |
hmmmm |
need to make sure that if i change that line of code, it'll actually fix the problem |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
yeah.... based on the backtrace that vanessa pasted it happened in the isspace() of line 333, chat.cpp, and i noticed that it passes a wchar |
| 22:26 |
hmmmm |
but i can't actually see if that's the problem or not because i can't type any unicode characters in there |
| 22:28 |
sfan5 |
are there any other mail adresses at minetest.net already? |
| 22:28 |
hmmmm |
mine |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE |
fwiw, I'm not entirely sure that irrlicht was actually a rebug build when I grabbed that trace.. |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE |
er debug. |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE |
(it is NOW though) |
| 22:29 |
hmmmm |
no it definitely was a debug build. |
| 22:29 |
VanessaE |
oh good |
| 22:29 |
hmmmm |
doesn't matter though because that didn't really happen in irrlicht |
| 22:30 |
VanessaE |
my system got stupid and tried to half-replace my copy of irrlicht with the one in the ubuntu repo. No matter. |
| 22:30 |
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| 22:44 |
Exio |
when i install packages outside the repo i always remove the 'official' and create other what --replaces it and --provides it too (with checkinstall :P) |
| 22:44 |
VanessaE |
Exio: routine system update decided it was smarter than me :_) |
| 22:45 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 22:45 |
Exio |
i blame ubuntu! >:D |
| 22:45 |
dimeshake |
i always blame ubuntu |
| 22:48 |
proller |
irrlicht compiled! and demos works with ~100fps |
| 22:49 |
Exio |
in what hardware? |
| 22:50 |
proller |
http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135235611947 |
| 22:52 |
Exio |
damn! i want that! |
| 22:53 |
proller |
here is smaller http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 |
| 22:58 |
RealBadAngel |
nice stuff |
| 23:00 |
Exio |
very nice |
| 23:00 |
Exio |
i should check if i can get one (more than one really) here :P |
| 23:00 |
proller |
i think it first usable arm for desktop |
| 23:01 |
Exio |
what about the power usage? |
| 23:02 |
proller |
5v 2a = 10w |
| 23:03 |
proller |
segmentation fault in minetest 8( |
| 23:03 |
Exio |
aww |
| 23:04 |
Exio |
this is nice: "Display (Option) HDMI monitor / LCD panel with RGB or LVDS interface" |
| 23:05 |
Exio |
they should release a "how to build your own ARM laptop!" and sell the other parts :P |
| 23:05 |
proller |
i use fullhd tv 8) |
| 23:38 |
ShadowNinja |
hmmmm: do you think I should add something like minetest.formspec_escape()? |
