| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:03 |
RealBadAngel |
rotfl |
| 00:03 |
RealBadAngel |
i just shrunk the code |
| 00:03 |
RealBadAngel |
ShandowNinja, wanna laugh some too? |
| 00:03 |
RealBadAngel |
i bet you will |
| 00:04 |
RealBadAngel |
http://pastebin.com/B4z55jDS |
| 00:04 |
RealBadAngel |
thats WHOLE engine patch for tanks... |
| 00:14 |
ShadowNinja |
RealBadAngel: :-D That's great! |
| 00:15 |
RealBadAngel |
one thing i have to add, merging the tank nodes only vertically |
| 00:15 |
RealBadAngel |
but that should be like 2-3 lines extra |
| 00:34 |
ShadowNinja |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1418 |
| 00:44 |
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kahrl |
ShadowNinja: the I is for interface |
| 02:51 |
ShadowNinja |
kahrl: Ah, thanks. |
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celeron55 |
ShadowNinja: it's a way of structuring C++ that i like |
| 05:55 |
celeron55 |
i.e. have pure virtual interfaces and implement them in a single file without exposing anything from there |
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| 15:19 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: Can you /mode +b *!*@APuteaux-651-1-153-154.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr$##fix_your_connection please? |
| 15:23 |
RealBadAngel |
ShadowNinja, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Elstn-LahlI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwjWWifxOfc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcQ--DOaEHI |
| 15:24 |
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| 15:31 |
ShadowNinja |
RealBadAngel: Very neat. The inner part should connect horizontally though, and obviously tanks mods will have to distribute the contents in a more inteligent way. With meta_set_nodedef you could also make lava containers glow (without need of extra nodes). |
| 15:33 |
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| 15:33 |
RealBadAngel |
connecting of fluids is done already |
| 15:34 |
RealBadAngel |
at least horizontally by now |
| 15:35 |
RealBadAngel |
well, for lava glow in a container you can just replace it with def that has lightsource defined |
| 15:35 |
RealBadAngel |
2 nodes for that is not so much |
| 15:37 |
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| 15:42 |
celeron55 |
ShadowNinja: what is that $##, is it some freenode specific thing? |
| 15:42 |
celeron55 |
also why is IRC so badly documented |
| 15:42 |
celeron55 |
i'll do without it so i maybe understand what i'm doing |
| 15:43 |
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| 15:43 |
sfan5 |
celeron55: freenode specific, redirects person to specified channel |
| 15:43 |
sfan5 |
+b <mask>$<channel to redirect to> |
| 15:49 |
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| 15:54 |
ShadowNinja |
Not freenode specific, it's in Charydbis. But, yes, it's a channel forward. |
| 15:54 |
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| 15:54 |
ShadowNinja |
Charybdis* |
| 15:55 |
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| 15:55 |
sfan5 |
ShadowNinja: the ban did not work |
| 16:01 |
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| 16:09 |
asl |
ShadowNinja: you broke the chainsaw |
| 16:14 |
ShadowNinja |
asl: How? And -> #minetest-technic |
| 16:14 |
asl |
ShadowNinja: you aren't there or at least i can't see you there |
| 16:15 |
|
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| 16:15 |
ShadowNinja |
celeron55: He has a bunch of IPs, you'll need a wide range ban. @APuteaux-651-1-* or so. |
| 16:15 |
Calinou |
[Proposal]: Switch from 20 HP to 100 HP system: it makes more sense, is more accurate: If people are interested, I may write a patch for this. What is needed is increasing the health constant and falling damage, and of course telling mod developers to update their mod |
| 16:16 |
Calinou |
if this is OK, I can post an issue for this |
| 16:16 |
Calinou |
(it's also more game-agnostic?) |
| 16:16 |
ShadowNinja |
asl: I am there, check your spelling and preceding #s. |
| 16:16 |
ShadowNinja |
Er, NVM... |
| 16:21 |
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| 16:26 |
RealBadAngel |
Calinou, better work on experience system and leveling the character |
| 16:27 |
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| 16:28 |
Calinou |
why BETTER work? |
| 16:28 |
Calinou |
it's not like you should “move†development work on something |
| 16:29 |
Calinou |
feel free to make the max health value changeable in the Lua API (ideal) |
| 16:29 |
Calinou |
you're definitely not the core dev to help for gameplay stuff |
| 16:30 |
RealBadAngel |
thats what i meant |
| 16:31 |
RealBadAngel |
instead of setting another fixed value, we should think on ways to improve it |
| 16:31 |
RealBadAngel |
my idea was leveling the character |
| 16:31 |
Calinou |
if we improve it, the default value would probably be 100; so we could change the constant and fall damage for 100 now, then seek ways to make it not hardcoded (non-trivial) |
| 16:34 |
RealBadAngel |
propably makin it changeable could be enough for modders to develop such leveling systems |
| 16:43 |
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| 17:33 |
Megaf |
Any news on the Android builds? |
| 17:41 |
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| 20:40 |
VanessaE |
regarding health/HP values, if not a 0-100 range, then at least allow for floats in the 0-20 range. The point being, allow more finely-detailed adjustments of a player's health (or rather, a better range of health adjustments between foods in a mod). |
| 20:42 |
sfan5 |
>float |
| 20:42 |
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| 20:42 |
VanessaE |
well decimals; afaik the HP system we have now only allows for integers. |
| 20:42 |
sapier |
in general I'd support this request ... but not for 0.4.10 |
| 20:43 |
VanessaE |
naw, not for 0.4.10, too late for that |
| 20:45 |
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| 20:46 |
ShadowNinja |
If we use floats we should use 0-1 instead of 0-20. If we use integers a 0-255 range would be good. |
| 20:47 |
RealBadAngel |
if we would ever add leveling of the character value cannot be limited |
| 20:50 |
RealBadAngel |
i mean not add in core, but allow that for mods rather |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
players could gain exp by mining, killing mobs, crafting items, eating special items, doing quests or whatever |
| 20:51 |
RealBadAngel |
and then use that to increase hp for example |
| 20:51 |
ShadowNinja |
RealBadAngel: I think sapier made a patch for what you're talking about, arbitrary player values, not just HP and breath. |
| 20:52 |
RealBadAngel |
so, when he already did that, why we do discuss players health? |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
because it's not compatible |
| 20:53 |
sapier |
we'd have to break compatibility in order to gain full benefit ... if we don't do it we add just a lot of code |
| 20:58 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: What do you mean by your comment on my rollback pull? |
| 20:58 |
ShadowNinja |
2 weeks prior merge? |
| 20:58 |
ShadowNinja |
Do you mean release? |
| 20:59 |
sapier |
did I write merge? sorry yes meant release |
| 20:59 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: Yes, it might be better for 0.4.11/0.5.0. |
| 21:00 |
ShadowNinja |
I added a milestone and added it to it. |
| 21:00 |
ShadowNinja |
Do you think that meta_set_nodedef would be a good enough excuse for 0.5.0? |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
I'm absolutely positive about rewriting this as it's extremely ugly right now ... I only fixed worst issues for 0.4.10 |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: your idea is a good one, but all I'm talking about, specifically, is *just* the HP range. XP is different from HP. |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
don't know what is meta_set_nodedef? |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
sapier: the ability to change a node's model right in the map data. |
| 21:01 |
VanessaE |
without redefining that node. |
| 21:01 |
sapier |
VanessaE actually HP is just a number, same as Experience or anything else |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
sapier: no. in RPG talk, HP != XP. |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
they are totally different concepts. |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
I didn't sae it's same, I said its a number ;-P |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
ok :) |
| 21:02 |
sapier |
so both are a number |
| 21:02 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 21:02 |
ShadowNinja |
sapier: You can do something like minetest.get_meta(pos):set_string("__nodedef", "{light_source=14}") and make a node at a position glow (although there's a proper API function for it). |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
and as of developers perspective it's nothing different ... of course you can use a number to implement completely different game mechanics ;-) |
| 21:03 |
ShadowNinja |
So, eg, mesecons only need one node. |
| 21:03 |
RealBadAngel |
point i rised is that whatever the health value will be, it cannot be fixed and have to be changeable by mods |
| 21:03 |
ShadowNinja |
Because the nodebox can be changed dynamically. |
| 21:03 |
sapier |
that's why I suggeste the generic stats mechanism so everyone can use numbers for whatver seh/he wants |
| 21:03 |
VanessaE |
and the available range of the HP value is 0-20, but it can neither handle decimals nor grow beyond 20, making it very difficult (if not impossible) to make mods where the foods have a good health balance. |
| 21:04 |
ShadowNinja |
VanessaE: Decimals? Don't you mean floats? |
| 21:04 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: yes. |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
I'm not sure about floats |
| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
20 is good for newbs, they will have to play a bit to survive |
| 21:04 |
RealBadAngel |
and dont die in first found hole |
| 21:04 |
sapier |
I'd suggest natural numbers as their're way more predictable |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: there needs to be an upper bound, lest you end up with players who have super-human health. |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
why? |
| 21:05 |
ShadowNinja |
Float serialization is ugly. It just multiplies it by 1000 and casts it to an int. |
| 21:05 |
sapier |
imho a upper bound is mod issue not engine issue |
| 21:05 |
VanessaE |
ShadowNinja: ew. |
| 21:05 |
RealBadAngel |
make wise leveling system then |
| 21:06 |
ShadowNinja |
That's why it's called readF1000/writeF1000. |
| 21:06 |
RealBadAngel |
gainin first levels easy, then harder and harder... |
| 21:06 |
sapier |
leveling system is not core issue |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: you're missing the point |
| 21:06 |
VanessaE |
what about the FOOD |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
I'm talking about giving the damn FOOD some value here |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
which isn't core issue too vanessae |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
sapier: I know that, but somewhere, at some point, those values have to be added to the player's health. |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
why? |
| 21:07 |
sapier |
engine doesn't have to do anything about that |
| 21:07 |
VanessaE |
be...cause what's the point of food that can't be eaten to gain health from? |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
that's still a modding issue |
| 21:08 |
VanessaE |
maybe but right now it's stuck at a 0-20 range. |
| 21:08 |
sapier |
I'm absolutely with you that current health mechanism is limited |
| 21:08 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, im not missing the point, high leveled player will have to eat shitload of apples to regain full health ;) |
| 21:08 |
* VanessaE |
shrugs. obviously you get the point :) |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
and? :-) |
| 21:09 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: right. but somehow the concept of the player's health being totally unbounded feels... wrong. |
| 21:09 |
VanessaE |
sapier: and...what are we gonna DO about it? :) |
| 21:09 |
sapier |
nothing right now |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
leveling mechanism will limit it |
| 21:10 |
sapier |
it's not engine issue to set specific limits |
| 21:10 |
RealBadAngel |
indeed |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
values have to be changed by mods so mods can and even have to enforce those limits |
| 21:11 |
RealBadAngel |
mods that will use it will take care of handling it properly |
| 21:11 |
VanessaE |
sapier: then what prevents me from giving a slice of uncooked strawberry pie a health value of, say, 0.25 (that is, an eighth of a heart)? |
| 21:11 |
sapier |
imho the only thing where something like a "limit" is statbars ... there you have to add a way to tell how to interpret a number |
| 21:11 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, when we will free the limit, heart or 1/2 heart term will become obsolete |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
e.g. "half_item = 100" |
| 21:12 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: in which case, what will you use to display the HP level, as sapier alluded to just now? |
| 21:12 |
RealBadAngel |
it will be just graphical representation of hp |
| 21:12 |
sapier |
or "min = 0", "max=100" |
| 21:13 |
sapier |
exactly it's graphical only ... basicaly it's a statbar config parameter |
| 21:13 |
RealBadAngel |
displaying the bar can be made by converting hp/hp_max to 0-1 range |
| 21:13 |
sapier |
that'd be another way to configure statbar too yes |
| 21:13 |
VanessaE |
but when I said an eighth of a heart, I meant that as a reference to the numeric value - if I wanted to use a HP value of 0.25 for that slice of raw pie, it'll be rejected. So if it's not an engine issue, then what prevents that float from being used? |
| 21:14 |
sapier |
sorry don't understand that sentence |
| 21:14 |
RealBadAngel |
VanessaE, slices of cake wont level up ;) they gonna give player always the same ammount of hp |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
a small example in future version a mod defines player health to have values between 0 and 10000 |
| 21:15 |
RealBadAngel |
but not in term of hearts anymore, just pure hp |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
sapier: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L1555 |
| 21:15 |
sapier |
and health bar is configured that one hart is 1000 while at max 10 hearts ar show |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
sapier: if I pass a value of 0.25 as the first argument of this function, right now, what will happen? |
| 21:15 |
VanessaE |
it'll be rejected or it'll become 0 or some other thing I guess, right? |
| 21:16 |
RealBadAngel |
rounded to 0? |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
nothing because if we do it the stat way that interface will be removed completely |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
in any case, it won't be interpreted as exactly 0.25 |
| 21:16 |
sapier |
well I'm not talking about the current mechanism |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
I *am* talking about the current mechanism |
| 21:16 |
VanessaE |
because I'm trying to retain compatibility with mods. |
| 21:17 |
sapier |
then I'm out I'm not gonna waste time on a broken by design mechanism ;-) |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 21:17 |
VanessaE |
I didn't say I wanted to *keep* it. |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
I suggested a new way of doing it, by now the only issue someone (myself) mentioned it's absolutely incompatible to current way of doing |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
so it's only helpfull for 0.5 |
| 21:18 |
sapier |
and in case we do it that or a similar way discussing about 0.25 is absolutely useless ;-) |
| 21:20 |
RealBadAngel |
sapier, https://github.com/RealBadAngel/minetest/commit/2a48505077378446e125c161ce59d2fc7152b05c |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
current code for glasslike_framed interior |
| 21:21 |
VanessaE |
sapier: just FYI, 210 references to the various get_hp/set_hp and *item_eat functions in my entire mod tree. |
| 21:21 |
RealBadAngel |
not finished yet, still workin on it |
| 21:21 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/944 I'd delay this to 0.4.11 or does anyone know how to fix it till end of month? |
| 21:21 |
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| 21:22 |
sapier |
that's why it's gonna be called 0.5 ;-) |
| 21:22 |
sapier |
btw maybe some mod could implement hp in a similar way then now so this might not be a issue that big |
| 21:22 |
VanessaE |
so I suggest if the whole HP[/XP] idea gets revamped, it gets a new set of API calls also. |
| 21:23 |
sapier |
that's exactly what I'm talking about |
| 21:23 |
VanessaE |
I don't recall you saying that before :) |
| 21:24 |
sapier |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1335 here ;-) |
| 21:24 |
VanessaE |
regarding 944, personally I think that should be fixed for 0.4.10 |
| 21:25 |
VanessaE |
it's persisted for far too long now. |
| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
nore seems to know how to fix it |
| 21:25 |
RealBadAngel |
at least he suggested that he knows |
| 21:31 |
sapier |
VanessaE: problem is there's noone active knowing that code and that part is quite complicated chances to do it worse then now are quite big |
| 21:32 |
sapier |
well if nore knows how to fix he should write a pull request |
| 21:41 |
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| 21:47 |
Sokomine |
shadowninja: that meta_set_nodedef sounds very intresting and useful |
| 21:51 |
RealBadAngel |
i would love to see that branch in, so many things could be made way better with that |
| 21:53 |
RealBadAngel |
Sokomine, that branch means single node def for nodes like wires, cables, tubes coloured stuff whatever |
| 21:53 |
RealBadAngel |
and much much more |
| 21:53 |
Sokomine |
oh yes. i'd definitely approve of fixing of #944 |
| 21:54 |
sapier |
well everyone approving it wont do the work ;-P |
| 21:55 |
Sokomine |
rba: does it allow to change individual nodes on the map or does it change all nodes? |
| 21:56 |
Sokomine |
sapier: that's the drawback i'm afraid. i did take a short look at it when i reported it, but i'm not really familiar with the code |
| 21:56 |
sapier |
me too the only thing I know about that code is it's extremely ugly |
| 21:57 |
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| 21:57 |
Sokomine |
there's also something else i'd love to be merged eventually: sfan5's map saving client. it is a great help when visiting less reliable servers (those where server admins tend to discard the work of weeks by "oh, did you notice? we just have a new map. say bye-bye to your large building project!" |
| 21:57 |
sapier |
is there a pull request by now? |
| 21:58 |
Sokomine |
only my bug report i'm afraid. i might try to look into it again |
| 21:59 |
Sokomine |
or do you mean for the map-saving? sfan5 has a fork for it. i've modifeid it slightly locally so that instead of one localmap, it does save per world |
| 22:00 |
sapier |
I was talking about map saving |
| 22:02 |
Sokomine |
ah. sfan5 around? he wrote it after all. most of it is his code. i just placed it into the latest version and added that per-world-saving |
| 22:02 |
Sokomine |
it's a pretty elegant way how he created that local saving. it doesn't need much code |
| 22:15 |
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| 22:22 |
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| 22:33 |
RealBadAngel |
Sokomine, point of that branch is ability to modify single node on the map |
| 22:34 |
RealBadAngel |
by modifying its nodeboxes, textures on the fly |
| 22:35 |
RealBadAngel |
so for example for all the possible mesecons wires connections you wont need multiple node definitions. ONE will do |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
if that feature EVER makes it into mainline |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
how long has it been pending now? |
| 22:35 |
VanessaE |
a year? |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
this will also make wires climbing up the walls a child's play to make |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
RealBadAngel: nore already did that. |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/Novatux/wires |
| 22:36 |
VanessaE |
:) |
| 22:36 |
RealBadAngel |
see? its even already done ;) |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
but those don't use set nodedef |
| 22:37 |
VanessaE |
those use nodes. |
| 22:38 |
RealBadAngel |
ahh, thats why its so long ;) |
| 22:39 |
VanessaE |
you can play with that one on my Creative server. |
| 22:42 |
RealBadAngel |
cool, gonna try it |
| 23:13 |
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| 23:34 |
Sokomine |
rba: sounds very good |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
Sokomine, the mod by nore, that VE linked... it does the wires, indeed |
| 23:46 |
RealBadAngel |
but uses about 1000 node definitions... |
| 23:47 |
RealBadAngel |
instead of single one |
| 23:47 |
RealBadAngel |
just to make mesecon wires... |
| 23:49 |
Sokomine |
yes. hope that get merged |
| 23:55 |
Sokomine |
is there a flag for nodes that will support that feature? |
