| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:51 |
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paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:00 |
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ImQ009 joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:19 |
paramat |
hi hmmmm i followed your advice and used bright nodes enabled in all biomes, but can't get noise varied decoration density to work. i suspect i have the wrong format here https://gist.github.com/paramat/05d14c973db2dfc080cb because changing or even removing the noise parameters has no effect, decorations have a constant density with average separation of roughly 8 |
| 01:20 |
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| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
oh pfg |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
you have the wrong key for the noiseparams |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
it's not np, it's noise_params |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
lol |
| 01:21 |
paramat |
oh cool |
| 01:21 |
hmmmm |
i just cross checked with my test decoration script |
| 01:22 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 01:22 |
hmmmm |
i assume that means lua_api.txt is wrong |
| 01:23 |
paramat |
i made a start on default biomes for mgv5/v7 https://github.com/paramat/minetest_game/commits/mgv5biomes trees are placed as saplings, papyrus and cacti are 1 node high, pine trees are coming soon |
| 01:24 |
paramat |
erm lua api txt has no documentation for biome API? |
| 01:30 |
paramat |
hmmmm you were asking for an idea of how to make schematics. making them in-game and then saving is good and intuitive, but the probability list is awkward. how about the player crafting then placing nodes with built-in chosen probabilities, maybe as meta-data? these are then read when saving the schematic |
| 01:43 |
paramat |
not crafting ... better to have a tool that when used on a node reduces it's probability from 255 in steps of say 16 |
| 01:47 |
paramat |
that could be done in lua, core code then reads node metadata as per-node probabilities |
| 02:03 |
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| 02:13 |
paramat |
agh! decoration noise parameters are indeed correctly documented in lua-api.txt, how embarassing, i had assumed they weren't and didn't look |
| 02:30 |
hmmmm |
paramat, yeah, the biome api is not there because it was never officially 'released' |
| 02:31 |
hmmmm |
you're right about the node probability thing, a tool would work well there |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
thing is that can all be done in lua... I wrote the worldedit mt schematic commands, but i'm sure somebody more devoted to worldedit could improve it |
| 02:32 |
hmmmm |
i hoped somebody would come along and improve it anyway but it seems like nobody has |
| 02:33 |
hmmmm |
either way, probability y-slices are completely unimplemented by anybody as far as i know |
| 02:33 |
hmmmm |
(this is how you have a tree have variable heights, for example) |
| 02:33 |
paramat |
i will use that certainly |
| 02:34 |
hmmmm |
the tree model I've been using right along doesn't have y-slice schematics because I'd have to create a new one |
| 02:34 |
hmmmm |
y-slice probabilities i meant to say |
| 02:36 |
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| 02:39 |
paramat |
hmmmm, line 2676 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2676 can the per-node probability list be added here too, currently it seems y-slice list only |
| 02:43 |
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| 02:55 |
paramat |
bbl |
| 02:55 |
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| 05:31 |
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| 06:03 |
Zeno` |
for comment: https://github.com/Zeno-/minetest/commit/8bae5c9f520417c9cc6c3269f4125882b70ac199 |
| 06:16 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: I don't have the energy to look at it in detail right now, but is const MapNode& really an improvement over MapNode? |
| 06:16 |
hmmmm |
of course not |
| 06:16 |
kahrl |
I mean MapNode is just a 32 bit number |
| 06:17 |
kahrl |
also v3s16 is essentially just a 48 bit number |
| 06:17 |
Zeno` |
No it's not |
| 06:17 |
Zeno` |
It is now, yes |
| 06:17 |
kahrl |
Zeno`: once the compiler has inlined and optimized the copy constructor, it is |
| 06:18 |
Zeno` |
Well I can get rid of all of those |
| 06:18 |
Zeno` |
the real thing I was looking at was copyFrom |
| 06:19 |
Zeno` |
but you know what? Making the v3s16 does make an insignificant difference |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
making it const& |
| 06:20 |
hmmmm |
maybe on 32 bit machines |
| 06:20 |
Zeno` |
Maybe that's it |
| 06:21 |
Zeno` |
It'd make a small difference on 64-bit as well with unaligned data |
| 06:21 |
Zeno` |
Not that I'm really concerned about micro-optimisation |
| 06:22 |
hmmmm |
unless you're doing something really odd intentionally, you're always going to have things aligned properly |
| 06:22 |
Zeno` |
correct |
| 06:23 |
Zeno` |
The only big speed difference is voxel.cpp changes anyway |
| 06:23 |
Zeno` |
Which is probably all I'll put in a PR when I get to it |
| 06:24 |
Zeno` |
(my branches are not PR worthy most of the time, which is why I didn't make it a PR yet hehe) |
| 06:24 |
kahrl |
from what I can tell it looks correct |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
I don't think gcc constructor optimisation is doing a good job heh |
| 06:28 |
Zeno` |
I'll look at the asm more closely later tonight |
| 06:29 |
hmmmm |
yeah people often take gcc optimization for granted but i've been quite disappointed often |
| 06:32 |
Zeno` |
It does a good job 99.99% of the time |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
what would you expect it to do with code like |
| 06:32 |
hmmmm |
if (strlen(foo) < sizeof(buf)) strcpy(buf, foo);? |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
it outright refuses to inline both and optimize the result no matter how hard you cajole it to inline common string functions |
| 06:33 |
hmmmm |
just an example, but i've seen other issues similar to this |
| 06:34 |
Zeno` |
I guess... but strlen iterates and strcpy (in glibc at least) is a single CPU instruction (after some fancy byte aligning stuff) |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
are you sure gcc uses that? |
| 06:35 |
Zeno` |
did last time I looked |
| 06:35 |
Zeno` |
about a year ago |
| 06:35 |
hmmmm |
on modern architectures it's faster to write risc-y code rather than rep mov* instructions |
| 06:36 |
Zeno` |
it's a SIMD instruction I think |
| 06:36 |
hmmmm |
by modern I mean like even the athlon 64 optimization guide recommends you to prefer a mov/cmp/jxx sequence over rep movsb |
| 06:36 |
Zeno` |
hmm not that |
| 06:36 |
hmmmm |
string SIMD functions? |
| 06:37 |
Zeno` |
nah, I was thinking of something else |
| 06:37 |
hmmmm |
well i'm not aware of any such things in SSE2 or prior |
| 06:38 |
hmmmm |
oh |
| 06:38 |
Zeno` |
Maybe I'm thinking of BSD libc... I can't for the life of me remember, but I do remember looking at it |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
what i was looking at in particular was more along the lines of |
| 06:39 |
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| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
strcpy(foo, bar); foo += strlen(bar); |
| 06:39 |
hmmmm |
the latter strlen could be trivially optimized into a single subtraction if strcpy() were inlined |
| 06:39 |
Zeno` |
I was thinking of memcpy() and not strcpy() as well lol |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
yeah, that's a little different... |
| 06:40 |
Zeno` |
yeah ok, that's something I would expect |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
microsoft visual C inlines memcpys by using the rep mov** way |
| 06:40 |
hmmmm |
like |
| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
mov ecx, len///shr ecx, 2///rep movsd///mov ecx, len////and ecx, 3///rep movsb |
| 06:41 |
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| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
at least as of 2008 |
| 06:41 |
hmmmm |
kind of disappointing |
| 06:43 |
paramat |
`=i have segfaults each time |
| 06:43 |
paramat |
oops |
| 06:44 |
paramat |
.. i try to use manually coded schematics https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/doc/lua_api.txt#L2678 |
| 06:44 |
paramat |
`=P |
| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
I still think passing the v3s16 stuff as const& is better even if it's not faster, just so it's obvious they're not modified |
| 06:45 |
Zeno` |
perhaps gcc is more aggressive with const& optimisations as well (who knows) |
| 06:48 |
paramat |
so i have noise-varied decoration density working but now manually coded schematics segfault with seemingly nothing suspicious in verbose debug.txt, my code https://gist.github.com/paramat/b5ecdfd28296bed6e582 |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
you know zeno`, a value v3s16 might be faster due to cache locality |
| 06:49 |
Zeno` |
It might be |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
what if the v3s16 you're referencing is in an object on the heap that happens to fall out of the cache rather quickly |
| 06:49 |
hmmmm |
whereas on the stack it'd be better |
| 06:50 |
Zeno` |
I'll remove those but I'll check the asm as well (just for my own interest/learning) |
| 06:50 |
Zeno` |
yes, that's true |
| 06:50 |
hmmmm |
or maybe if all the pieces of data it's working with are on the stack in the same cache line, freeing up cache to be used for something different |
| 06:50 |
Zeno` |
since they're tiny objects you're most likely right |
| 06:50 |
hmmmm |
hey paramat, do you have a backtrace? |
| 06:51 |
hmmmm |
i don't doubt there's a problem with schematics because i did a lot with them recently |
| 06:54 |
paramat |
i don't know what a backtrace is, you want to see the end of debug.txt? |
| 06:54 |
paramat |
there were no error messages |
| 06:55 |
paramat |
i haven't tried a 'debug build' |
| 07:19 |
Zeno` |
no time like the present to learn :) |
| 07:24 |
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| 07:30 |
paramat |
yeah i probably will soon |
| 07:30 |
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| 08:17 |
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| 08:30 |
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| 08:30 |
Zeno` |
weird. I didn't even realise I was disconnected |
| 08:34 |
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| 09:14 |
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| 09:15 |
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| 09:25 |
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| 10:11 |
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| 10:19 |
Zeno` |
any comments on #1707 ? |
| 10:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1707 -- Right mouse button behaviour for craft/inventory by Zeno- |
| 10:21 |
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| 10:29 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: I don't undertand that |
| 10:29 |
Zeno` |
? |
| 10:30 |
Megaf |
I don't get what you mean |
| 10:30 |
Zeno` |
It changes how "auto drop" works |
| 10:30 |
Zeno` |
e.g. at the moment right click (mouse) on something in yuor inventory and drag it around, over empty slots and also non-empty slots |
| 10:30 |
Zeno` |
observe the behaviour |
| 10:31 |
Zeno` |
the patch changes that behaviour to only work if you right-click, release, and right-click hold |
| 10:33 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: I have never noticed that... |
| 10:33 |
Zeno` |
e.g. at the moment right click (mouse) (and hold it*) on something in yuor inventory and drag it around, over empty slots and also non-empty slots |
| 10:33 |
Megaf |
Why would I drag an item arround with right click :S |
| 10:33 |
Zeno` |
it was added a few months ago and I think it's terrible |
| 10:34 |
Megaf |
Who are taking such stupid decisions? |
| 10:34 |
Megaf |
common |
| 10:34 |
Megaf |
first we can no longer build where we stand, and now this |
| 10:34 |
Megaf |
they are just turning minetest in another thing that is no longer minetest |
| 10:35 |
Megaf |
changing its all default behaivour |
| 10:35 |
Zeno` |
this new patch changes the behaviour as well, but it's much closer to how it was before |
| 10:35 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: Can't you totally disable that? |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
I see no point in keeping that |
| 10:36 |
Zeno` |
*shrug*, click, hold, click-hold requires a conscious decision. If you don't do it will behave as before |
| 10:36 |
Megaf |
usually we want to make room in our inventory, instead of illing everything and using all the space |
| 10:36 |
Zeno` |
well, it can be handy for dividing up items but as it is (before the patch) it's totally broken (IMO) |
| 10:37 |
Megaf |
Zeno`: I actually have been thinking on another thing. At the moment when you left click an item in your inventory you take it and hold it, I think it should only grab if you keep the left button pressed, and let it go when you drop it |
| 10:37 |
Megaf |
or something like that |
| 10:38 |
Zeno` |
well that's a similar issue |
| 10:38 |
Zeno` |
atm the left and right mouse buttons behave differently |
| 10:38 |
Zeno` |
which is crazy |
| 10:39 |
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| 10:39 |
Megaf |
I like the wayt right click graps half of the stack, that is quite useful |
| 10:39 |
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| 10:39 |
Zeno` |
here is the commit: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/f6321e277bc423a0878ae239a73ad2cd6393106c |
| 10:39 |
Zeno` |
yes, my patch still does that |
| 10:41 |
Zeno` |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1661 |
| 10:42 |
Zeno` |
There was more discussion that I cannot find |
| 10:42 |
Zeno` |
ShadowNinja said he'd support things if it behaved the way my PR behaves |
| 10:42 |
Megaf |
I upvoted already |
| 10:44 |
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| 10:45 |
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| 10:48 |
Zeno` |
Here we go: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/1704 |
| 10:48 |
Zeno` |
see ShadowNinja's comment on Oct 1 |
| 10:48 |
Zeno` |
and that is what my patch does |
| 10:51 |
Zeno` |
so, effectively, SN has already said ok to my patch |
| 10:51 |
Megaf |
all right |
| 10:51 |
Zeno` |
But I'd like confirmation heh |
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| 18:44 |
Krock |
src\main.cpp(1112): error C2065: 'argc': Undeclared identifer |
| 18:45 |
Krock |
src\main.cpp(1112): error C2065: 'argv': Undeclared identifier |
| 18:45 |
Krock |
compiling fails on MSVC |
| 18:47 |
Krock |
oh great. an '#ifdef _MSC_VER' is there around the code |
| 18:57 |
Krock |
sfan5, could you use this patch http://pastebin.com/EfxsBebb please to fix compiling issues under windows? |
| 19:16 |
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* Krock |
wonders if PilzAdam could fix it insted because there's a total silence |
| 19:47 |
* RealBadAngel |
wonders if PilzAdam is an active contributor... |
| 19:48 |
RealBadAngel |
i havent saw any PA's code since ages |
| 19:51 |
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| 19:52 |
RealBadAngel |
PilzAdam, what are your plans? |
| 20:08 |
kilbith |
*active blocker |
| 20:10 |
Amaz |
No need to wonder about that kilbith! |
| 20:10 |
kilbith |
lol |
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