| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:14 |
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| 00:27 |
Taoki |
Hey there. Is there any news on RealBadAngel? It's been over a week since his heart attack... someone must know something. |
| 00:29 |
sofar |
no news, nothing. |
| 00:29 |
Taoki |
ok :( |
| 01:13 |
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| 01:25 |
paramat |
now merging games 891 799 892 880 |
| 01:45 |
paramat |
merged |
| 01:46 |
paramat |
down to 31 PRs nice |
| 01:50 |
paramat |
and now attempting merge of game 794 |
| 01:52 |
paramat |
finished, merge failed |
| 01:52 |
sofar |
that should be easy to fix tho |
| 02:11 |
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| 02:15 |
paramat |
yes. docs need improving too |
| 02:25 |
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| 02:58 |
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| 04:06 |
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| 04:08 |
paramat |
hmmmm what do you think about reverting 'Allow setting chunksize in core.set_mapgen_params'? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/5130dbce7b294c392733e93c05e2099786523342 it's used by few and i feel it should be discouraged. also we could remove documentation of the 'chunksize' setting from conf.example and settingtypes.txt to discourage use |
| 04:09 |
hmmmm |
uhh, weren't you the one who asked for that commit? |
| 04:12 |
paramat |
not sure, but i do remember something was done to chunksize to fix a bug, investigating.. |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
in any case, i don't think chunksize should be settable from the lua api |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
i never did |
| 04:13 |
hmmmm |
somebody made a PR about how they can read chunksize but not set it, i offered an explaination why, and then you gave the ol' "well we'll be really careful, I PROMISE" so then it got added |
| 04:14 |
paramat |
oops |
| 04:14 |
paramat |
i'll search for what happened |
| 04:15 |
hmmmm |
i don't mind what you do, just be aware that it will break existing worlds if you remove that option now |
| 04:16 |
paramat |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3222 |
| 04:16 |
paramat |
indeed we need to support it, but disallowing setting it will not break worlds |
| 04:17 |
paramat |
i +1 then changed to neutral on the issue |
| 04:18 |
paramat |
idiot moi |
| 04:21 |
paramat |
do you think it should remain settable in .conf and advanced settings menu? |
| 04:23 |
paramat |
anyway at the least i'll revert setting it in 'set mapgen params' |
| 04:28 |
hmmmm |
the commit you linked does more than that |
| 04:29 |
paramat |
yes i'll leave the other stuff untouched, i won't use 'revert' |
| 04:29 |
hmmmm |
how won't this break worlds? |
| 04:30 |
paramat |
erm, because it's stored in map meta? |
| 04:31 |
hmmmm |
is it?? |
| 04:31 |
paramat |
yes, checked |
| 04:31 |
paramat |
'Making it a param and being able to 'get' it was done on my request as a way of getting chunksize in certain situations' |
| 04:32 |
paramat |
i think it fixed a bug we were having |
| 04:32 |
paramat |
iirc |
| 04:32 |
hmmmm |
i don't see where any mapgen settings set through lua get stored in map_meta.txt |
| 04:33 |
paramat |
it's also set through default settings and .conf or advanced menu |
| 04:33 |
hmmmm |
so? |
| 04:34 |
paramat |
but i have a world here that contains 'chunksize = 5' in map meta txt |
| 04:34 |
hmmmm |
player uses a mod that explicitly sets chunksize through lua |
| 04:34 |
hmmmm |
non-default chunksize is not set in map_meta.txt |
| 04:34 |
hmmmm |
you create a patch removing chunksize setting functionality |
| 04:34 |
hmmmm |
player's world now uses the map_meta.txt stored chunksize, not the mod's override |
| 04:35 |
paramat |
ah |
| 04:35 |
hmmmm |
now the player gets large chunks of content_ignore between the generated and non-generated land |
| 04:35 |
hmmmm |
how is this case averted? |
| 04:36 |
paramat |
perhaps we can't revert then |
| 04:36 |
hmmmm |
in addition to breakage, the creator of that PR convinced me that it would be a fine addition for his use case |
| 04:37 |
hmmmm |
so i think it should stay |
| 04:37 |
paramat |
ok agreed |
| 04:37 |
paramat |
thanks |
| 05:13 |
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| 07:28 |
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| 09:08 |
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| 09:32 |
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| 18:00 |
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| 18:10 |
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| 18:14 |
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| 18:18 |
sofar |
I reopened game#758 with different steel door sounds |
| 18:18 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/758 -- Add sounds for steel doors. by sofar |
| 18:29 |
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est31 joined #minetest-dev |
| 18:29 |
est31 |
I see the commit is from oct 2015 |
| 18:29 |
est31 |
so its not in 0.4.13 yet |
| 18:29 |
est31 |
dev stuff can be broken IMO |
| 18:29 |
est31 |
users explicitly have to install a mod |
| 18:30 |
est31 |
but if hmmmm thinks it should stay, i have no problem with it staying |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
I was thinking that it wouldn't be too hard to make a tool that allows you to delete blocks from map.sqlite |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
it would come in handy for several purposes |
| 18:42 |
sofar |
e.g. regenning map, pruning blocks for a server map, etc. |
| 18:43 |
est31 |
in fact there already exist such tools |
| 18:44 |
est31 |
from the just test server creator |
| 18:44 |
sofar |
doesn't surprise me |
| 18:45 |
sofar |
what's the faceposition cache you're referring to? |
| 18:45 |
est31 |
some stuff nrz introduced |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
we probably should have an official multi-purpose tool for managing worlds at the block level |
| 18:56 |
celeron55 |
but it's really up to whether someone can make it and maintain it |
| 18:57 |
celeron55 |
one notable thing is that hmmmm wanted to make an abstraction layer for world serialization which could have been used for something like that too, but that never happened |
| 18:58 |
est31 |
you mean a library? |
| 18:58 |
sofar |
having a worldedit method would be nice, but I'm afraid of allowing in-game code to destroy large areas :) |
| 18:58 |
est31 |
i dont know whether that will work, isnt it impossible to do C++ libraries |
| 18:58 |
est31 |
and a C library, idk whether thats a good idea |
| 18:59 |
celeron55 |
of course alternatively the editor could be in minetest itself instead of being a separate tool |
| 18:59 |
sfan5 |
or it could be a library and both |
| 18:59 |
celeron55 |
none of that is exactly trivial though |
| 19:00 |
est31 |
idk we already generate two separate binaries, minetest and minetestserver |
| 19:00 |
est31 |
we can have minetestworldedit or whatever its called as well |
| 19:00 |
celeron55 |
well maybe the easiest one could be just a bunch of command line options to command minetest to do some bulk operations |
| 19:00 |
sofar |
it should be trivial in python to just write a sqlite manipulation thingamabob |
| 19:00 |
celeron55 |
sofar: those exist already |
| 19:00 |
est31 |
in fact I've done that already for bugfixing some maps :) |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
i don't know where to find the most recent one though |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
also OldCoder has been working on something related to this |
| 19:01 |
celeron55 |
i don't know how generic it is, but he has said it can be used to combine worlds and automatically remove unused blocks from worlds |
| 19:02 |
twoelk |
would be nice if OldCoder would publish what he used to manipulate the Landrush map when he recreated the server |
| 19:03 |
twoelk |
or what he used for redcrab server |
| 19:05 |
est31 |
there is this https://github.com/AndrejIT/map_unexplore |
| 19:05 |
est31 |
with mt_block_parser.py |
| 19:06 |
twoelk |
Such a tool could also include something to extract nodes that cause trouble or crash the server without having to actually start minetest |
| 19:07 |
est31 |
yeah |
| 19:07 |
est31 |
I have done precisely that already |
| 19:07 |
est31 |
for the too much entities in a block bug |
| 19:07 |
est31 |
but cant find it right now |
| 19:08 |
est31 |
thats it https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/2610 |
| 19:08 |
est31 |
code here https://github.com/est31/minetest/commits/fix_too_many_entities_bug |
| 19:11 |
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| 19:28 |
est31 |
has a very fast method to delete all entities in a world |
| 19:39 |
ShadowNinja |
Turns out rewriting formatChatLine was easier than trying to decypher it to find an indentation bug. The result is probably half as long. |
| 19:40 |
ShadowNinja |
#3811 should work properly now. |
| 19:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3811 -- Add configurable timestamp to console messages by ShadowNinja |
| 19:41 |
Fixer |
ShadowNinja, thanks, i will try it today |
| 19:43 |
ShadowNinja |
Incoming patch: http://ix.io/pkS/diff |
| 19:44 |
twoelk |
est31: what if I need to downright replace a certain node worldwide without aliasing it or something similar |
| 19:45 |
est31 |
ShadowNinja, +1 |
| 19:46 |
est31 |
ShadowNinja, you want to +1 my LBM PR #3677 |
| 19:46 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3677 -- Add minetest.register_lbm() to run code on block load only by est31 |
| 19:47 |
est31 |
? |
| 19:51 |
Obani |
With the new chat, ^ character isn't supported anymore |
| 19:51 |
Obani |
Is that normal ? |
| 19:51 |
Obani |
afk |
| 19:55 |
est31 |
^ works for me |
| 19:55 |
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| 19:55 |
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| 19:55 |
ShadowNinja |
est31: Which one did you +1? And not quite yet, I'll have to take another look at your latest version, but I GTG now. |
| 19:56 |
est31 |
<ShadowNinja> Incoming patch: http://ix.io/pkS/diff |
| 19:56 |
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| 19:56 |
ShadowNinja |
est31: OK, thanks, I'll push that once I get back. |
| 19:58 |
est31 |
Obani, you want to use ^ to generate stuff like ĉ ? |
| 20:12 |
sofar |
#3820 |
| 20:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3820 -- Add consistent monotonous day counter - get_daycount() by sofar |
| 20:17 |
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| 20:17 |
sofar |
I wish I had thought of that earlier... I've been attempting to implement a sane calendar in a mod for ages |
| 20:18 |
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| 20:20 |
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| 20:22 |
est31 |
afk |
| 20:28 |
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| 20:32 |
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| 20:32 |
est31 |
sofar, perhaps also a setter for the day count? |
| 20:32 |
est31 |
and ShadowNinja will probably like it more if its get_day_count |
| 20:32 |
sofar |
get_gametime |
| 20:32 |
sofar |
but, sure |
| 20:33 |
sofar |
I thought about a setter, and it doesn't make any sense to me to have one |
| 20:33 |
sofar |
you can edit env_meta.txt if you really want to change it |
| 20:33 |
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| 20:33 |
sofar |
enabling time travel seems weird |
| 20:34 |
|
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| 20:34 |
sofar |
the patch itself is trivial, renaming it is fine with me. ShadowNinja ? |
| 20:36 |
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| 20:36 |
juraj_ |
hi, could i please ask question about minetest api and server performance ? |
| 20:36 |
sofar |
you can ask in #minetest as well, juraj_ |
| 20:37 |
juraj_ |
ok thanks |
| 20:38 |
est31 |
there is already time travel for the time of day value |
| 20:38 |
sofar |
nonsense, that's just nothing more than taking a quick nap ;) |
| 20:41 |
est31 |
monotonic monotonous in german you say "monoton" |
| 20:41 |
est31 |
nice and short :) |
| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
i don't think there should be a setter |
| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
it would just make mods mess up each other and be lazy |
| 20:45 |
celeron55 |
or, well, dunno really |
| 20:46 |
est31 |
perhaps we can consider adding it if there is an actual use case for it |
| 20:49 |
celeron55 |
well i'm sure that lazy mods will just reset the counter instead of keeping track of where it started, and mess up other mods by doing so; what i am not sure about is whether there is a valid use case that would overcome that |
| 20:50 |
sofar |
that's why I prefer there to be no setter |
| 20:50 |
sofar |
besides |
| 20:50 |
est31 |
what about a /day command |
| 20:50 |
est31 |
/time shows you the current time |
| 20:50 |
sofar |
if mods wanted to modify it, they should keep a shadow value |
| 20:50 |
sofar |
good idea |
| 20:51 |
celeron55 |
i suspect some mods have a /day command that equals /time 12000 |
| 20:51 |
est31 |
ah |
| 20:52 |
celeron55 |
just saying 8) |
| 20:52 |
sofar |
we can see if that's the case |
| 20:52 |
celeron55 |
maybe there isn't, actually |
| 20:52 |
celeron55 |
not a very common one at least |
| 20:52 |
est31 |
i think in minecraft the chat commands arent prefixed by / |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
and on many servers there are people who try to do commands |
| 20:53 |
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| 20:53 |
est31 |
often you hear people saying "day" nothing else |
| 20:53 |
est31 |
probably its a valid minecraft command |
| 20:53 |
sofar |
it's probably a mod to "make it day" |
| 20:54 |
Calinou |
in Minecraft you need a / for commands, pretty sure |
| 20:54 |
est31 |
hmm right |
| 20:54 |
Calinou |
http://users.kymp.net/feuer/etcomic/013.jpg |
| 20:54 |
sofar |
in MC, or at least bukkit etc. mods can intercept chat commands and treat them as commands |
| 20:57 |
est31 |
ah |
| 20:57 |
est31 |
in minecraft it is possible to do commands without slash |
| 20:57 |
est31 |
but only in the server console |
| 20:58 |
celeron55 |
in minetest you can do absolutely anything based on anything in the chat 8) |
| 20:59 |
celeron55 |
(but the engine encourages /commands so that's what everyone uses) |
| 21:04 |
twoelk |
some chat mods filter for swear words - you could see swear words as commands that trigger punishment action :-P |
| 21:05 |
est31 |
lol |
| 21:06 |
est31 |
its always fun watching people avoid those filters |
| 21:06 |
est31 |
F U C K YOU! |
| 21:07 |
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| 21:08 |
sofar |
so, /day command is 5 lines of code, might as well add it, right? |
| 21:08 |
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| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
as a read-only command, sure |
| 21:09 |
est31 |
register_chatcommand i think works in a way where registering the same command again overrides it right? |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
i imagine it being handy for developing stuff based on days |
| 21:09 |
est31 |
or is it with table.insert |
| 21:09 |
sofar |
yes, it just displays "Current day is " .. core.get_day_count() |
| 21:09 |
celeron55 |
or, testing |
| 21:09 |
est31 |
yeah thats what i asked for too |
| 21:09 |
est31 |
was in my mind* |
| 21:10 |
sofar |
I've got a pending project to do seasonal day/night length variation |
| 21:10 |
sofar |
that'll be one |
| 21:10 |
sofar |
the second one is a consistent calendar |
| 21:10 |
sofar |
like /date |
| 21:11 |
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| 21:14 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 i will soon work on 2 things: make beds white and not dependant on red dye, because roses can be distant in mgv7. add root/branch nodes for jungletrees that have 6 exterior tiles |
| 21:15 |
paramat |
and then later for other trees |
| 21:17 |
kaadmy |
Calinou: http://users.kymp.net/~feuer/etcomic/023.jpg |
| 21:24 |
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| 21:26 |
Calinou |
Minetest needs m_pitch |
| 21:26 |
Calinou |
for CTF :) |
| 21:27 |
est31 |
all the time irrlicht limitations are cited |
| 21:38 |
paramat |
nore sfan5 possible close? any comments? game#436 |
| 21:39 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/436 -- Add footstep sounds for liquids by MirceaKitsune |
| 21:39 |
sfan5 |
water footstep sounds? |
| 21:39 |
sfan5 |
hm |
| 21:40 |
paramat |
idea is ok but implementation and sounds here not good |
| 21:43 |
nore |
paramat: well, I never use sound when I play a game, so I'm completely neutral on this |
| 21:45 |
paramat |
ok, but it's the implementation and sounds that is the problem here |
| 21:47 |
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| 21:47 |
nore |
paramat: lava sounds aren't a very good idea I think |
| 21:48 |
nore |
except if you have very good ones (what should even it be?) |
| 21:48 |
nore |
about water sounds, well, if you have good ones, then yes |
| 21:49 |
paramat |
yeah i might even attempt water sounds myself sometime, but subtle and suitable for underwater |
| 21:49 |
paramat |
and one silent sound to break up the regularity |
| 21:53 |
sofar |
there's plenty of good sounds on freesound.org |
| 21:53 |
sofar |
some are really nice |
| 21:53 |
sofar |
just edit them so they can be mixed up nicely |
| 21:55 |
sofar |
e.g. add fade-in/fade-out, tune length for overlap |
| 21:55 |
paramat |
yeah that's where i would search |
| 21:56 |
sofar |
that place is a goldmine |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:02 |
est31 |
lol |
| 22:03 |
est31 |
in goldmines the gold concentration is less than 1% of the mined material :) |
| 22:03 |
est31 |
much less |
| 22:10 |
sofar |
the total amount of gold on earth, mined and unmined, would not even fill a soccer stadium |
| 22:13 |
Fixer |
What I like in MC, is that it capitalizes first letters and adds . at the end, simulating literate people %) |
| 22:13 |
sofar |
Maybe you can implement an IRC filter that automatically modifies chat messages that way. |
| 22:14 |
kaadmy |
Fixer: in chat? |
| 22:14 |
sofar |
Make everyone seem litterate ;) |
| 22:14 |
sofar |
s/tt/t/ |
| 22:14 |
kaadmy |
^ heh |
| 22:14 |
Fixer |
kaadmy, in chat |
| 22:15 |
sofar |
[ot] I've never seen an MC server do that. Vanilla or Bukkit? |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
what I don't like is some strange swastika like animated symbols in chat that rotate and change colour, wth was that? |
| 22:15 |
Fixer |
sofar, probably bukkit |
| 22:24 |
est31 |
sofar, about 3800 |
| 22:24 |
est31 |
you said in the commit description: "Protection mods will likely want to mimic the changes in their relevant code sections" |
| 22:24 |
sofar |
yes? |
| 22:25 |
est31 |
why so |
| 22:25 |
est31 |
you can simply replace minetest.is_protected, no? |
| 22:26 |
sofar |
protection mods currently have to override minetest.is_protected() |
| 22:26 |
est31 |
yes |
| 22:26 |
est31 |
thats the intended use |
| 22:26 |
sofar |
so e.g. node_dig() calls minetest.is_protected() |
| 22:26 |
sofar |
which is fine, since the access priv check is in node_dig() |
| 22:27 |
sofar |
but, it won't catch other interactions, chest privs etc. I think |
| 22:27 |
est31 |
so what mimicking is required then |
| 22:27 |
paramat |
+1 for new steel door sounds |
| 22:28 |
sofar |
insert a check for the protection_bypass check before other checks |
| 22:28 |
sofar |
*priv |
| 22:28 |
sofar |
paramat: ty, yes, that sound was a great find. |
| 22:28 |
est31 |
sofar, but if there is one check already inside minetest.is_protected |
| 22:28 |
sofar |
protection mods *override* it, the API tells them to |
| 22:28 |
est31 |
then why is it still required to have in node_dig |
| 22:29 |
est31 |
yes |
| 22:29 |
est31 |
isnt it better to just leave it to protection mods |
| 22:29 |
sofar |
yes but the is_protected() API was designed wrongly |
| 22:30 |
sofar |
you can't chain multiple protection mods |
| 22:30 |
sofar |
since the API doc clearly says "protection mods override this function" |
| 22:30 |
sofar |
had it been better designed, than it would have been easy |
| 22:30 |
sofar |
e.g. minetest.register_protection(func) |
| 22:31 |
est31 |
well & chaining still is possible |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
it certainly is |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
but would require all protection mods to behave |
| 22:31 |
est31 |
just || chaining isnt |
| 22:32 |
sofar |
it has to be more sophisticated, yes |
| 22:32 |
est31 |
well if you dont install a mod that behaves its your problem |
| 22:32 |
sofar |
sure |
| 22:32 |
sofar |
it's worth redoing imho |
| 22:32 |
|
twoelk joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:33 |
sofar |
but it also means redesign of the protection mods callback |
| 22:35 |
est31 |
I am open to proposaly |
| 22:35 |
sofar |
right now they return "allowed" or "denied", but it should be "I don't care", "explicitly allowed", "explicitly denied" I think |
| 22:35 |
est31 |
proposals* |
| 22:35 |
est31 |
but first I want to see sth better than currently |
| 22:35 |
sofar |
the crux is |
| 22:35 |
est31 |
there is nil, true and false |
| 22:35 |
est31 |
lua ftw |
| 22:35 |
sofar |
yes |
| 22:35 |
sofar |
that's what I'm thinking |
| 22:36 |
sofar |
say, 2 protection mods |
| 22:36 |
sofar |
step 1) protection_bypass? yes: done |
| 22:36 |
sofar |
step 2) call _all_ protection mods |
| 22:36 |
sofar |
if a mod explicitly denies -> deny |
| 22:36 |
sofar |
if a mod explicitly allows -> allow |
| 22:37 |
sofar |
nothing ? allow |
| 22:37 |
sofar |
if one mod denies, other explicitly allows? crap |
| 22:38 |
sofar |
of course, if you 'break' when an explicit allow/deny is found, you avoid the problem |
| 22:38 |
est31 |
schrodinger solution :) |
| 22:38 |
sofar |
protection mods can reorder themselves, too |
| 22:38 |
sofar |
bar/depends.txt: foo? |
| 22:39 |
est31 |
eww |
| 22:39 |
est31 |
that sounds bad |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
arms race |
| 22:39 |
est31 |
it should rather be left to the person who deploys the mod |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
I'm wondering whether it's realistic concern or not |
| 22:40 |
sofar |
e.g. someone grants permission to another person in an area that's also protected with a different protection mod |
| 22:40 |
est31 |
the other question to extend for the protection api is about actions |
| 22:40 |
sofar |
maybe |
| 22:40 |
sofar |
explicit allow trumps denies? |
| 22:40 |
est31 |
like: you grant access to chests |
| 22:41 |
sofar |
so 'deny' -> no break, try more |
| 22:41 |
sofar |
yes, something like taht |
| 22:41 |
est31 |
but no access to placing blocks |
| 22:41 |
sofar |
I think allow > deny could work |
| 22:41 |
sofar |
Order allow, deny |
| 22:41 |
* sofar |
has bad dreams about httpd.conf |
| 22:42 |
est31 |
lol |
| 22:42 |
est31 |
we can make it a setting |
| 22:48 |
paramat |
shall we merge #3448 before conflicts arise again? sure it's ok? |
| 22:48 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3448 -- Faster insertion into table by Rui914 |
| 22:49 |
sofar |
I'd vote merge |
| 22:53 |
paramat |
it seems ok to me |
| 22:54 |
paramat |
+1 |
| 22:54 |
paramat |
ok that's now mergeable |
| 22:55 |
est31 |
yes |
| 22:57 |
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Dragonop joined #minetest-dev |
| 22:57 |
paramat |
3800 seems ready too |
| 22:59 |
sofar |
est31 is having a party with that one |
| 22:59 |
est31 |
party? |
| 22:59 |
sofar |
hyperbole |
| 23:01 |
paramat |
ah ok |
| 23:09 |
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yang2003 joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:19 |
paramat |
ok i'll merge 3448 soon before conflicts arise |
| 23:25 |
paramat |
and possibly #3816 once i've reviewed it |
| 23:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3816 -- Settings Tab : Regroup dropdown datas in tables by kilbith |
| 23:30 |
paramat |
+1 on that |
| 23:39 |
paramat |
now merging those 2 |
| 23:39 |
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huang2003 joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:51 |
paramat |
merged |
| 23:52 |
paramat |
ugh down to 128 PRs feels so good |
| 23:55 |
Fixer |
lol |
| 23:55 |
Fixer |
too optimistic |
| 23:56 |
rubenwardy |
now get 64 ;) |
| 23:57 |
est31 |
somebody could look at my PR |
| 23:57 |
est31 |
with the LBMs |
| 23:57 |
est31 |
ShadowNinja is still gone it seems |