| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:09 |
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paramat joined #minetest-dev |
| 01:21 |
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| 01:36 |
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| 02:00 |
paramat |
#5388 now tested, sorts out the map gen limit mess |
| 02:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5388 -- Map gen limit: Rewrite by paramat |
| 02:12 |
paramat |
sofar, considering the controversy, shall i now merge #5327 ? i'mnot sure. looks like 4 devs support and 2 object. it has 2 approvals |
| 02:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5327 -- Fix various problems with sneaking by sfan5 |
| 02:15 |
paramat |
thought i'd ask before merging since its controversial |
| 02:18 |
paramat |
is your +1 a code review too? |
| 02:31 |
paramat |
for now i'll wait and look at the code myself |
| 02:35 |
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| 02:37 |
sofar |
I've tested that patch for a few days now in various parcours |
| 02:37 |
sofar |
so it's a firm +1 from testing and idea wise (sneak ladder for all I care never existed) |
| 02:38 |
sofar |
code wise I scanned it pretty thoroughly, but, there are far better core reviewers out there than me :) |
| 02:41 |
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| 03:42 |
VanessaE |
2017-03-15 04:42:20: ERROR[Main]: ServerError: AsyncErr: ServerThread::run Lua: Runtime error from mod '' in callback node_on_dig(): /usr/share/minetest/builtin/game/item.lua:499: attempt to index local 'def' (a nil value) |
| 03:42 |
VanessaE |
all I did was dig an unknown node. by hand. |
| 03:45 |
VanessaE |
http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/24180642/ |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/d785456b3fa35faf47cb972fde9e8668382c5e22#diff-83bb4564c6fbf230569bdeb2becc32b9L454 |
| 03:47 |
VanessaE |
this may be the breaking change |
| 03:58 |
sofar |
oh, dug an unknown node? |
| 03:58 |
VanessaE |
yeah. |
| 03:59 |
VanessaE |
[03-14 23:49] <cheapie> VanessaE: For now, changing line 499 to "if def and def.after_dig_node then" should fix it. |
| 03:59 |
sofar |
wow you got pretty far in that routine |
| 04:00 |
sofar |
no, line 507 will make it crash too |
| 04:00 |
sofar |
I'll see if I can come up with a fix in a bit after doing a review |
| 04:00 |
VanessaE |
ok. |
| 04:01 |
VanessaE |
RBA once advocated for a sort of "graduated" check for stuff like that. his contention was that `if a.b.c.d` should automatically check a, then a.b, etc. |
| 04:04 |
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| 04:04 |
VanessaE |
this would appear to be the cause of the other recent crashes, by the way. ones where I thought it was some random mod in my install. |
| 04:07 |
sofar |
you know, I think lua could actually do that |
| 04:08 |
VanessaE |
oh? |
| 04:14 |
sofar |
#5398 |
| 04:14 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5398 -- Fix two nul deref if digging unknown nodes. by sofar |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
shouldn't those be "nil ref"? |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
(and, lgtm) |
| 04:15 |
VanessaE |
er nil deref* |
| 04:15 |
sofar |
shrug |
| 04:19 |
VanessaE |
thanks again |
| 04:20 |
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| 04:29 |
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| 04:34 |
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| 04:42 |
octacian |
sofar: BTW, I just updated game#1636 to return the stack from book_on_use, you might wanna take a look at https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/pull/1636#discussion_r106084878 |
| 04:42 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1636 -- Fix books backwards compatibility issues by octacian |
| 04:44 |
octacian |
sofar: in game#1597 do you mean that I should move keys entirely to a new file or just as I did there? |
| 04:44 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1597 -- Allow skeleton keys to be stacked by octacian |
| 04:45 |
sofar |
one commit for the code change, one commit for the function move to a different file |
| 04:45 |
sofar |
now it's just a giant add/remove patch and I can't see the functional changes |
| 05:00 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 05:02 |
sofar |
octacian: I have a patch pending to make the key use left-click as well |
| 05:02 |
octacian |
ok |
| 05:02 |
sofar |
maybe you can push on top of my pr? |
| 05:02 |
octacian |
I assume the conflict? |
| 05:02 |
sofar |
yeah, it changes on_place to on_use |
| 05:02 |
octacian |
So.. 3 commits? |
| 05:02 |
octacian |
wait, nvm |
| 05:02 |
octacian |
>_< brain isn't working great, it's late lel |
| 05:02 |
octacian |
I'll see what Ican do. |
| 05:03 |
sofar |
only 2 for you :) |
| 05:03 |
octacian |
tomorrow tho |
| 05:03 |
sofar |
no sweat, I'm not rushing tonight |
| 05:03 |
sofar |
reviewing some minetest-mods open stuff atm |
| 05:03 |
octacian |
ah, I see |
| 05:04 |
Thomas-S |
sofar, could you maybe do me a favor and also review game#1580? Thanks in advance! |
| 05:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1580 -- Change doors to default.can_interact_with_node() by Thomas--S |
| 05:05 |
octacian |
Personally I've been working on mods a lot lately - haven't had time to update my PRs |
| 05:35 |
cheapie |
In regards to #5393, while sending client-side mods to the client is an excellent idea, the user should *not* be forced to accept any particular mod, nor should they be prevented by the server from running whichever client-side mod they want to load, as no server should have the authority to decide what I can or can't run on my own computer. |
| 05:35 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5393 -- CSM: Ability to inject from server-side mod |
| 05:36 |
cheapie |
As far as security/anti-cheat is concerned, well, anything critical to that shouldn't be running (exclusively) client-side anyway. |
| 05:38 |
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| 05:57 |
VanessaE |
cheapie: my contention is that the server should send all code the client should need to run. If the user wants to block it ala javascript in a web browser, I see no problem with that, but the server should be able to refuse any messages/data coming back from mods that it didn't send to the client. |
| 06:06 |
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| 06:18 |
sofar |
VanessaE: I have no indication that people are not in violent agreement with you |
| 06:19 |
sofar |
I also have no problems with developers goofing around with client side mods on their own, without a server sending out said code |
| 06:19 |
sofar |
in practice, almost nobody will end up doing that |
| 06:20 |
sofar |
everyone will rely on what the server sends |
| 06:20 |
VanessaE |
good |
| 06:20 |
VanessaE |
that's exactly what I would aim for. |
| 06:21 |
VanessaE |
one problem MC users got into, as I understand it, is incompatibility between servers and the mods they need installed on the client. server A wants mod B, server C also does, but server C relies on some old version of mod B for, oh, say legacy reasons |
| 06:22 |
VanessaE |
what do MC users do in that situation? |
| 06:23 |
VanessaE |
(serious question, as I've never used it) |
| 06:23 |
sofar |
I was quite deep in bukkit modding, but I gave up on client-side modding for MC |
| 06:23 |
sofar |
it's just not worth it |
| 06:23 |
sofar |
so much crapware |
| 06:23 |
VanessaE |
heh |
| 06:32 |
sofar |
plus every dang server or mod maker wants you to use a different crap tool to patch minecraft.jar |
| 06:32 |
sofar |
I quickly realized after patching 2-3 times that I never wanted any of it |
| 06:35 |
sofar |
I still believe that client-side mods have a very limited function coming to minetest |
| 06:35 |
sofar |
but the ones they do have will help a lot to offload things from the server |
| 06:36 |
VanessaE |
now, tell me something... |
| 06:36 |
VanessaE |
why such a hard-line stance on client-side mobs? |
| 06:36 |
sofar |
what part is hard-line? |
| 06:36 |
sofar |
oh, the mob thing |
| 06:36 |
VanessaE |
[03-13 13:17] <sofar> oh fuck no |
| 06:36 |
VanessaE |
[03-13 13:17] <sofar> mobs will never be client side |
| 06:37 |
sofar |
yeah, come on, think about it |
| 06:37 |
sofar |
first of all, you can't just eliminate mobs from the server and entirely put them on the client |
| 06:37 |
VanessaE |
I had figured there would be some cooperation between the two |
| 06:38 |
VanessaE |
damage prediction and the like |
| 06:38 |
sofar |
second, no matter how hard you try to offload tasks to the client, it's just always better lag-wise on the server |
| 06:39 |
sofar |
what I can think of is something I coded up in entity_ai myself |
| 06:39 |
sofar |
basically, the server sends mobs out for goals that are ~ 2.0 seconds away |
| 06:39 |
sofar |
and in between we don't really care |
| 06:40 |
sofar |
but tbh you almost don't need csm for that |
| 06:40 |
sofar |
although it would allow lua-coded pathfinding on the client |
| 06:40 |
sofar |
and that's kinda nice |
| 06:40 |
sofar |
but the server still would have to discover whether those paths are legal |
| 06:40 |
sofar |
e.g. the mobs don't go though a door |
| 06:40 |
VanessaE |
consider pipeworks as another example where I'd think the client could help - namely the animations of the items flowing through tubes. when the server lags, they float out of the tubes because the client can't stop them from moving due to lag. |
| 06:41 |
sofar |
that's a good example |
| 06:41 |
VanessaE |
client-side pathfinding might be useful for that, now that you mention it |
| 06:41 |
sofar |
clear start and stop state |
| 06:41 |
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nerzhul joined #minetest-dev |
| 06:41 |
sofar |
so the client can just "remove" the entity when it's at the right point |
| 06:41 |
VanessaE |
carts have a similar problem to tubed items - they tend to float right off of the track during lag |
| 06:42 |
sofar |
yes but at some point the server needs to know where the damn cart is |
| 06:42 |
VanessaE |
yep, I know |
| 06:43 |
sofar |
plus it all needs to add up or else anticheat fails |
| 06:43 |
VanessaE |
server says "move in direction <vector> at speed <velocity>" but it can't tell the client "stop the entity if it crosses within <coords>" (of course, this doesn't need CSM) |
| 06:44 |
sofar |
well the server could predict a curve ahead |
| 06:44 |
sofar |
but what if the rider stops the car? |
| 06:44 |
VanessaE |
that would be tricky to solve, I'll grant you |
| 06:44 |
sofar |
also current carts are not physical, which I really don't like |
| 06:44 |
VanessaE |
not physical? |
| 06:44 |
sofar |
one quirk and you fly through stones |
| 06:44 |
VanessaE |
oh yeah |
| 06:45 |
VanessaE |
or they drop off of the track on hills sometimes (or used to) |
| 06:45 |
sofar |
I'd rather see them physical and buggy |
| 06:45 |
sofar |
it's fine if they derail even |
| 06:45 |
VanessaE |
so maybe for carts and pipeworks, the server needs to be able to tell the client "here's a list of vectors and velocities. play it out and delete the entity when done" |
| 06:46 |
VanessaE |
(of course the server will have to play the list as well) |
| 06:46 |
VanessaE |
point being to decouple server responsiveness from client smooth animation |
| 06:46 |
VanessaE |
(or network responsiveness) |
| 06:48 |
sofar |
see the problem with all this is |
| 06:48 |
sofar |
now we've reduced the scope of mods on the client to ... just about a shell of what mobs actually need |
| 06:49 |
sofar |
and we're not even talking smart stuff yet |
| 06:49 |
sofar |
scriptable mobs |
| 06:49 |
sofar |
npcs that can perform more complex functions |
| 06:50 |
sofar |
plus, when it comes to complexity, you're talking about the most complex thing to solve |
| 06:51 |
sofar |
it has synchronization issues |
| 06:51 |
sofar |
it has cheating problems |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
hrm |
| 06:51 |
sofar |
lag is a problem |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
I can see your point. |
| 06:51 |
sofar |
lol |
| 06:51 |
sofar |
I'm not saying it's not possible, but, wow, it's going to be a looooong journey before we can even start on that |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
that's fine too |
| 06:51 |
VanessaE |
I'm not saying "let's dump it all into the API right away" |
| 06:52 |
VanessaE |
just more a matter of "let's have a good plan that'll still work 5 years down the road" etc |
| 06:52 |
VanessaE |
(even if the whole thing is done in 6 months and stale in a year :) ) |
| 06:52 |
sofar |
personally, I have far more important features on my radar that I'd like to see progress |
| 06:53 |
sofar |
node setmeta, we need that |
| 06:53 |
sofar |
facetext, we need that |
| 06:53 |
VanessaE |
yeah. |
| 06:53 |
nerzhul |
lag will be reduced when client mods will be really used by modders to port their functions to client instead of server, example a craft guide has nothing to do server side :) |
| 06:53 |
sofar |
colored itemstacks, we need that |
| 06:53 |
sofar |
I need to work on entity_ai, so we can get rid off all the buggy mob mods |
| 06:53 |
sofar |
and get truly scriptable AI mobs |
| 06:53 |
VanessaE |
insert reference here to XKCD "14 standards" cartoon :P |
| 06:54 |
nerzhul |
sofar, i have a pure C++ part not perfect on my fork, based on mobs redo |
| 06:54 |
sofar |
nerzhul: excellent example |
| 06:54 |
sofar |
nerzhul: forget mobs redo |
| 06:54 |
sofar |
it's kids' stuff |
| 06:54 |
sofar |
it's not even intelligent code |
| 06:54 |
nerzhul |
sofar, yes i know, i rewrote many parts |
| 06:54 |
sofar |
my entity_ai solves the problem at a much more fundamental level |
| 06:54 |
sofar |
splitting code from decoration |
| 06:55 |
sofar |
making code pluggable |
| 06:55 |
nerzhul |
sofar, look at that: https://gitlab.com/epixelgame/epixel/blob/master/src/contrib/creature.cpp |
| 06:55 |
sofar |
fixing the stupid memory problems that most lua mobs have since they stuff kilobytes of code into instanced objects (dumb) |
| 06:56 |
sofar |
nerzhul: again, it's cool it's C++ but it's no different from a mob template |
| 06:56 |
sofar |
we need *pluggable* and *scriptable* mobs |
| 06:57 |
nerzhul |
sofar, a right and good API is mangos emulator API |
| 06:57 |
nerzhul |
i like it very much |
| 06:57 |
sofar |
I can do that in entity_ai |
| 06:57 |
sofar |
I just need to add a spawnpoint driver |
| 06:57 |
sofar |
and a waypoint driver |
| 06:57 |
sofar |
and then you can do that with entity_ai |
| 06:57 |
sofar |
btw drivers can be registered in a separate mod in entity_ai |
| 06:58 |
sofar |
same with pathfinders |
| 06:58 |
nerzhul |
sofar, exactly what the mangos API does, and it has castspell you add your itmers , you set go to pos, attack, cast spell, wait, speak :) |
| 06:58 |
sofar |
I've coded quests in mangos |
| 06:58 |
nerzhul |
sofar, i coded all ulduar, ICC |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
beofre they were in SD2 |
| 06:59 |
sofar |
offtopic, but, lmao, I run a BC server at my house |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
https://github.com/nerzhul/MangosFX/tree/master/src/bindings/ScriptDev2/scripts/northrend |
| 06:59 |
sofar |
also entity_ai has arbitrary animation support |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
i was youg :p |
| 06:59 |
nerzhul |
and also i was a C++ noob at this moment ^^ |
| 06:59 |
sofar |
so if you want a mob to have special animations? no problem |
| 06:59 |
sofar |
special code drivers? no problem |
| 07:00 |
sofar |
special state transitions? no problem |
| 07:00 |
sofar |
npc that changes model into a demon mob? it can be done |
| 07:00 |
sofar |
npc that you can trade with that then builds your house? totally doable |
| 07:00 |
nerzhul |
sofar, an event api on a npc class is the good way to do it i think, like in SD2 |
| 07:00 |
sofar |
no need to code up low level bits, I have all those |
| 07:01 |
sofar |
just code your "npc trade formspec" and hook it to an event |
| 07:01 |
sofar |
and code the state transitions |
| 07:01 |
nerzhul |
sofar, go then |
| 07:01 |
sofar |
nobody is looking at entity_ai, so, I'll pick it up when I finish what I'm doing now |
| 07:01 |
nerzhul |
i hope your entity AI is pure C++ |
| 07:02 |
sofar |
of course not |
| 07:02 |
sofar |
prototype it in lua |
| 07:02 |
sofar |
then make it solid and test |
| 07:02 |
nerzhul |
prototype in lua is good, after convert it :) |
| 07:02 |
sofar |
and then optimize in C++ |
| 07:02 |
nerzhul |
i need to spawn 2000 mobs :D |
| 07:02 |
nerzhul |
but if they where in one place on client => massive UI lag :p |
| 07:04 |
sofar |
anyway, I'm a pumpkin |
| 07:04 |
sofar |
*poof* |
| 07:04 |
* sofar |
is off to bed |
| 07:04 |
nerzhul |
sofar, merging 5398 |
| 08:18 |
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| 14:41 |
Wayward_One |
#5400 |
| 14:41 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5400 -- (Android) Fix undefined references by Wayward1 |
| 14:42 |
nrzkt |
Wayward_One: another time i missed android, i need to add an android builder on travis at a point to show that :) |
| 14:42 |
nrzkt |
thanks for the point, i'm merging it now as it's fairly trivial |
| 14:43 |
Wayward_One |
:) that would be useful |
| 14:43 |
Wayward_One |
np, glad to gelp |
| 14:43 |
Wayward_One |
*help |
| 14:45 |
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| 17:01 |
paramat |
#5382 is ready for review |
| 17:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5382 -- Mgv7: Add optional giant caverns at depth by paramat |
| 17:17 |
cheapie |
[00:57:38] <VanessaE> cheapie: my contention is that the server should send all code the client should need to run. If the user wants to block it ala javascript in a web browser, I see no problem with that, but the server should be able to refuse any messages/data coming back from mods that it didn't send to the client. |
| 17:17 |
cheapie |
^ That's pretty much exactly what I meant, yeah. |
| 17:19 |
VanessaE |
I'm glad we all agree on that :) |
| 17:22 |
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| 17:23 |
sofar |
violently |
| 17:24 |
sofar |
but, as I said before, it's up to the server operators to implement that part |
| 17:24 |
sofar |
(we'll make the tools and interfaces for them to do so, of course) |
| 17:31 |
VanessaE |
sofar: imho, server and client should both default client-receives-mod-code. i.e. blocking needs to be an explicit action by the user. |
| 17:32 |
red-001 |
agreed |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
because it's easier to tell the paranoid to disable a feature than to get the average user to enable it |
| 17:32 |
red-001 |
there should be a setting like enable_mod_auto_download |
| 17:32 |
red-001 |
set by default to true |
| 17:32 |
sofar |
VanessaE: I don't think anyone disagrees with that? |
| 17:32 |
VanessaE |
enable_remote_content |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
sofar: ok, just making sure. I kinda got the impression that some folks here would prefer opt-in. |
| 17:33 |
sofar |
no, if we can't enable that by default then I consider CSM failed |
| 17:33 |
VanessaE |
ok good |
| 17:33 |
red-001 |
also when possible mods supplied by the server should over-ride the ones supplied by the client |
| 17:34 |
VanessaE |
agreed. |
| 17:49 |
sofar |
just like worldmods override non-worldmods |
| 17:49 |
VanessaE |
yes |
| 17:58 |
paramat |
Krock were you not invited to be a dev? still considering? |
| 17:59 |
Krock |
paramat, please check out the minetest team again. I'm already a dev ;) |
| 18:00 |
paramat |
kewl |
| 18:01 |
paramat |
feel free to alter the 'one approval' 'two approvals' labels on PRs you approve |
| 18:06 |
Hijiri |
what do people think about including a monoid-like interface in the lua API for physics overrides, armor values etc.? The current interface just begs to break compatibility between mods |
| 18:07 |
Hijiri |
With a monoidish interface mods will behave the same as they do now when they are operating alone, and when operating together they will at worst create balance problems |
| 18:07 |
Hijiri |
rather than stepping on each others' toes |
| 18:07 |
Hijiri |
of course the actual API doesn't have to mention monoids or anything |
| 18:09 |
Hijiri |
The interface would have something like contribute_value("modname:contribution_key", 0.5) for adding effects, and uncontribute_value("modname:contribution_key") to remove an effect that was added with the key |
| 18:09 |
Hijiri |
To calculate the actual physics override, or armor value, or whatever, all the contributions from every mod is multiplied together and applied |
| 18:10 |
Hijiri |
If you only have one mod using it, it would be as if it used the current override interface |
| 18:11 |
Hijiri |
If you have two mods doing it, their values are combined gracefully together rather than having something like a race condition where only the last mod to apply the thing gets the effect |
| 18:12 |
Hijiri |
maybe I'll post a Github issue later |
| 18:12 |
Hijiri |
since I have class |
| 18:16 |
paramat |
Krock here's the correct way to merge PRs from terminal https://gist.github.com/paramat/fdb80b6f03923d444af261a789894215 |
| 18:17 |
Krock |
paramat, thanks for the introduction but I already know how to prevent the merge commits with my git gui ;) |
| 18:18 |
Krock |
I'm basically doing the same - just using a graphical interface |
| 18:19 |
Fixer |
hey, I suddenly realised, if there are so much prosneak, and it still needs fixing, why not introducing something like a rope (already available in some mods) for fast travel |
| 18:22 |
sofar |
Krock: ah, good, then I can merge some stuff :) |
| 18:23 |
paramat |
ok good |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
curl -L http:/..../1234.patch | git am |
| 18:23 |
paramat |
Fixer i've suggested modders work on alternatives |
| 18:23 |
sofar |
but, squash/rebase buttons on github are fantastic, too |
| 18:25 |
paramat |
if reasonable such a mod could be added to game |
| 18:25 |
Fixer |
paramat: there is already rope mod somewhere on vanessas servers (for climbing) |
| 18:26 |
paramat |
just not 6n/s speed unless magickal or mechanical |
| 18:26 |
VanessaE |
Fixer: castles mod provides one, and vines provides another. |
| 18:27 |
VanessaE |
(both suck) |
| 18:27 |
VanessaE |
castles *modpack* which I don't yet use, provides what looks like a pretty good rope block |
| 18:27 |
VanessaE |
might be a good idea to coordinate with FaceDeer about that. |
| 18:27 |
paramat |
i'll test the sneak PR and might +1 it later |
| 18:28 |
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| 18:31 |
juhdanad |
Hi! Could you explain me how can you store mutiple things in an itemstack metadata? |
| 18:39 |
Fixer |
paramat: i have intriguing question, what if "get biome info" can get status of the terrain? like land/sea/river/dungeon ? |
| 18:39 |
Fixer |
imagine river protector mod, blocks any building on rivers for example |
| 18:39 |
Fixer |
just based on generated structures |
| 18:45 |
juhdanad |
To be more specific: how can I push a 'color' property to an itemstack? |
| 18:46 |
paramat |
Fixer that would be complex, it would have to analyse the noise parameters for the specific mapgen |
| 18:58 |
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| 19:05 |
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| 19:10 |
Krock |
#4925 became superflous due to #5320 right? |
| 19:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4925 -- Fix block drawing glitch at block boundaries by Rogier-5 |
| 19:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5320 -- Allow server side occlusion culling. by lhofhansl |
| 19:14 |
Fixer |
don't think so |
| 19:22 |
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| 19:35 |
Krock |
Merging works fine as always :) |
| 19:37 |
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| 19:37 |
Krock |
It it desired to announce merges with >= 2 approvals here too? |
| 19:41 |
sfan5 |
yes |
| 19:42 |
Krock |
alright, will do that in the future |
| 19:52 |
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| 19:52 |
paramat |
yeah because if 2 devs do merges simultaneously it could cause a problem |
| 19:53 |
paramat |
nope 5320 did not fix 4925 |
| 19:55 |
paramat |
but we now have a setting prevent that bug happening too close to the player #4686 |
| 19:55 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4686 -- Remove optimization that causes underwater and cave rendering glitches. by lhofhansl |
| 20:02 |
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| 21:02 |
Fixer |
nerzhul: from forum: client-side skins? |
| 21:02 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, it was requested but does those needs to be sent to server ? |
| 21:02 |
Fixer |
no idea |
| 21:03 |
nerzhul |
a texture pack client side okay, a skin sent to server no, due to some who can send nude/nazi etc symbols using this |
| 21:03 |
twoelk |
what woeld client side skins be? |
| 21:03 |
nerzhul |
i prefer a server owner formspec permitting to show it and guarantee correct usage from players |
| 21:04 |
nerzhul |
nore, Zeno` sfan5 paramat can you look at #5396 please ? Krock already looked at it and i fixed the mentioned point, it's jsut a simple portage to client |
| 21:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5396 -- [CSM] Add ModStorageAPI by nerzhul |
| 21:04 |
twoelk |
if I change the textures client side only I can see them, so again, what would clm skins be? |
| 21:05 |
twoelk |
csm |
| 21:05 |
nerzhul |
if you want like in some games see al players nude it's your problem, but sharing it with other players is a bit risky |
| 21:05 |
nerzhul |
we have child in our userbase |
| 21:06 |
twoelk |
like I change all players to pandas but only I can see that? |
| 21:06 |
nerzhul |
y |
| 21:07 |
twoelk |
I don"t quite see the use |
| 21:07 |
nerzhul |
merging #5311 |
| 21:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5311 -- lua_api: Document minetest.features by SmallJoker |
| 21:07 |
twoelk |
I would rather have a better way to communicate my skin wish to the server owner |
| 21:08 |
twoelk |
but the skin as such stays served from the server owner |
| 21:10 |
twoelk |
actually I'm not really sure what csm is - it looks to me as if two concepts are mixed at the moment |
| 21:10 |
nerzhul |
CSM is a pure client side modding |
| 21:10 |
nerzhul |
atm you cannot do many things because some more handlers are required |
| 21:11 |
twoelk |
the first beeing mods provided by the server but run in part on the client |
| 21:11 |
nerzhul |
#5399 is a pure CSM interesting usage |
| 21:11 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5399 -- [CSM] Add minimap API modifiers by nerzhul |
| 21:11 |
twoelk |
the second some mod I install locally and only I have use of |
| 21:11 |
nerzhul |
for first phase, we will permit to customize client without changing the game rules, which are owned by server |
| 21:11 |
nerzhul |
it's the safer way to start, after thinking properly, extend the CSM with some communication to serve,r but after having a real client API |
| 21:12 |
red-001 |
could someone review #5113 ? |
| 21:12 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5113 -- [CSM] Add function to get the name of the player and functions to colour chat. by red-001 |
| 21:12 |
nerzhul |
red-001, can you drop the player part as we should change this to a pure client luaobjectref ? |
| 21:13 |
red-001 |
so remove the name getter function? |
| 21:13 |
red-001 |
ok |
| 21:13 |
nerzhul |
it's better to have a player object in the lua stack than creating many getters |
| 21:14 |
red-001 |
yeah I was thinking the same thing |
| 21:15 |
twoelk |
a pure client side mod would be one the server knows nothing about and doesn't care - I'm not sure that potential godd and bad has been studied yet |
| 21:17 |
nerzhul |
don't burn steps, we need to add API, when there will be sufficent API client side we will have new things to develop to enhance it |
| 21:18 |
nerzhul |
if i remember crafts are sent client side, now imagine we have an API which listen key bindings, you open your craftguide by pushing C on your keyboard, it's pure client side :) |
| 21:19 |
twoelk |
I understand that part (version one of my statement above) |
| 21:20 |
twoelk |
but client side skins would be version two |
| 21:20 |
twoelk |
just like texture are at the moment |
| 21:20 |
red-001 |
done |
| 21:21 |
red-001 |
#5113 |
| 21:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5113 -- [CSM] Give CSM access to core.colorize by red-001 |
| 21:21 |
twoelk |
For example I could imagine a client side only mod to keep personal notes - such as my waypoints or other lists |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
twoelk, yes it's an interesting idea |
| 21:22 |
twoelk |
this might interfere with game design though |
| 21:22 |
nerzhul |
atm mod storage is shared between servers, we need two storages client side at the end, one global and one per server |
| 21:23 |
nerzhul |
twoelk, the mod principle is to make game enhanced. After maybe we should add a mod blacklist for permitting servers to disable some client mods, but i'm not sure it's a good idea |
| 21:23 |
twoelk |
between servers? |
| 21:23 |
red-001 |
I think we might want to consider limiting certain functions to server supplied mods |
| 21:24 |
twoelk |
I could have a clientside minimap mod that queries my local cached map data only, never exposing itself to the server - close to cheating |
| 21:25 |
twoelk |
it could highlight certain nodes |
| 21:27 |
nerzhul |
twoelk, yes between servers, like for example keymapping, it's a personal user preference not depending on server |
| 21:30 |
twoelk |
will the client side mod code be downloaded fresh everytime I join or will the cache be searched for allready downloaded versions? |
| 21:31 |
twoelk |
I could for example manipulate cached content |
| 21:31 |
nerzhul |
twoelk, sorry we are at early stages, don't search us to have answers to all your questions, CSM will be in heavy development |
| 21:31 |
nerzhul |
first CSM controled by client, second extend to server or client peering |
| 21:32 |
twoelk |
I have a feeling many decisions may have to be made quite early - especially about the scope and security |
| 21:33 |
nerzhul |
for CSM security is priority, it's why first stage is pure client side |
| 21:34 |
nerzhul |
yes it doesn't allow to do crazy things, but i permits to ensure a correct and secure user experience |
| 21:34 |
nerzhul |
it's also why we don't added get_mod_path at this moment, because i don't see any interest to know the mod path as a mod is a runtime and if it needs to write things there will be mod storage |
| 21:38 |
twoelk |
hm, about local scins example. how would that work? load all local scins at worldstart? |
| 21:38 |
twoelk |
*skins |
| 21:40 |
twoelk |
I wonder wether this policy doesn't clutter the client memory with media too much |
| 22:06 |
paramat |
updated and tested #5388 |
| 22:06 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5388 -- Map gen limit: Rewrite by paramat |
| 22:10 |
paramat |
will merge game#1579 game#1621 game#1635 game#1639 in a moment |
| 22:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1579 -- Migrate sethome mod to player attributes. by sofar |
| 22:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1621 -- sapling_on_place: Restore default behaviour by SmallJoker |
| 22:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1635 -- Skeleton key: Change to use left-click (tool on_use) by sofar |
| 22:10 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/1639 -- Farming: Add override for default:dirt_with_rainforest_litter by paramat |
| 22:14 |
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| 22:26 |
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| 22:26 |
paramat |
merging .. |
| 22:27 |
paramat |
1000 commits! |
| 22:28 |
kaeza |
is it just me, or the topmost leaves node of mapgen-placed aspen trees just fails to decay? |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:28 |
kaeza |
haven't tested aspen trees grown from saplings |
| 22:28 |
paramat |
lol i managed to get number 1000 |
| 22:30 |
paramat |
i raised the trunk by 1 node in the schematic, ahh perhaps the already-placed aspens are as they were before, so the new leafdecay radius 2 is not large enough for them |
| 22:30 |
red-001 |
I wonder who will get 1024 |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
paramat: lol, yes, that would do that |
| 22:31 |
sofar |
kaeza: time for timberrrrr! |
| 22:32 |
paramat |
might have to raise the radius to 3 again for a few years |
| 22:33 |
kaeza |
BTW, yesterday I noticed my cactus farm was not growing at all except for a single one. turns out I placed all cactus sideways :I |
| 22:33 |
kaeza |
</offtopic> |
| 22:33 |
nerzhul |
yeah CSM with minimap now works, jsut need to push and document :) |
| 22:36 |
paramat |
merge complete |
| 22:36 |
paramat |
down to 22, hope we can stay below 25 |
| 22:40 |
Fixer |
kaeza: you play minetest? |
| 22:42 |
Fixer |
innocent question, why put into /clientmods but not in /client/mods ? |
| 22:44 |
nerzhul |
if i remember the choice was done because of ~/.minetest/client |
| 22:45 |
nerzhul |
to make mods independent of this already used namespace for storing persistent data |
| 22:45 |
nerzhul |
sofar, i need you ! |
| 22:45 |
sofar |
I need you too nerzhul, but not like that :) |
| 22:45 |
kaeza |
jeez, get a room you two |
| 22:46 |
nerzhul |
sofar, ? :o |
| 22:46 |
Fixer |
nevermind |
| 22:46 |
sofar |
hahaha |
| 22:47 |
sofar |
well tbh client/serverlist is kinda weird |
| 22:47 |
sofar |
there's just one file in there |
| 22:47 |
nerzhul |
sofar, can you review #5396 & #5399 for permit merge ? |
| 22:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5396 -- [CSM] Add ModStorageAPI by nerzhul |
| 22:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5399 -- [CSM] Add minimap API modifiers by nerzhul |
| 22:48 |
sofar |
nerzhul: tonight (it's work-work time here atm) |
| 22:48 |
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| 22:48 |
nerzhul |
sofar, work for minetest :p |
| 22:48 |
nerzhul |
what time is it in your country ? |
| 22:49 |
nerzhul |
sofar, i introduced core.ui namespace client side for ui coreside components, minimap reference is core.ui.minimap, what do you think about it ? |
| 22:49 |
nerzhul |
as many global UI components are singleton (console, minimap, chat for example) |
| 22:50 |
sofar |
4pm here in west-cuckoostan |
| 22:55 |
paramat |
wow mtgame has had 500 of those commits since 0.4.13 |
| 22:57 |
sofar |
nerzhul: honestly you can move the entire HUD to lua for all I care |
| 22:58 |
sofar |
nerzhul: take it out of the server mod realm |
| 22:58 |
sofar |
just make it client only |
| 22:59 |
Fixer |
at the time i considered 0.4.12-13 pretty depressing time in mt history |
| 22:59 |
nerzhul |
sofar, xD, crazy but not entierely possible |
| 23:00 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, why ? not many commits ? |
| 23:00 |
Fixer |
yes, stagnant development and very few devs |
| 23:00 |
Fixer |
somewhere 0.4.14-0.4.15-dev it became great again |
| 23:01 |
nerzhul |
Fixer, i looked at 0.4.12 it's before my network refactor |
| 23:01 |
nerzhul |
look at this ugly thing : https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/0.4.12/src/client.cpp#L1465 |
| 23:01 |
nerzhul |
if i remember i started to develop between 0.4.12 and 0.4.13 on mt |
| 23:02 |
nerzhul |
MT code has made many improvements, especially in terms of performance, semi C++11 containers, many memory copy removal (not all but many anoying) |
| 23:02 |
nerzhul |
network packet handling performance using functions pointers instead of a huge if/elseif |
| 23:02 |
nerzhul |
ABM vector |
| 23:07 |
sofar |
0.4.15 will be a lot smoother gameplay too |
| 23:07 |
sofar |
0.4.16* will be a lot smoother gameplay too |
| 23:11 |
nerzhul |
sofar, yeah, many commits are improving server load |
| 23:12 |
nerzhul |
+ mod meta + player attributes, for better mod storage :) |
| 23:13 |
nerzhul |
mod security |
| 23:13 |
Fixer |
there will be jitter by default, but that can be solved before everybody dies |
| 23:13 |
Fixer |
good releases indeed |
| 23:13 |
Fixer |
very fun times |
| 23:13 |
Fixer |
I feel like I'm back in 2011-2012 |
| 23:13 |
nerzhul |
no more breath cheat |
| 23:14 |
nerzhul |
2D sheet animations |
| 23:15 |
nerzhul |
and disabled csm :p |
| 23:17 |
kaeza |
2D sheet animations? |
| 23:18 |
kaeza |
oh you mean the old 0.3-style DM? :P |
| 23:18 |
nerzhul |
don't know, ask to sfan5 |
| 23:25 |
paramat |
+1 for sneak PR, will merge later |
| 23:27 |
red-001 |
could someone else review #5113 ? |
| 23:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/5113 -- [CSM] Give CSM access to core.colorize by red-001 |
| 23:27 |
red-001 |
all it does is move around some code |
| 23:28 |
red-001 |
builtin/game -> builtin/common |
| 23:32 |
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