| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:37 |
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| 00:51 |
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| 01:05 |
paramat |
game#2027 now ready for review |
| 01:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/issues/2027 -- Add marram grass for coastal sand dunes by paramat |
| 04:08 |
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| 05:01 |
paramat |
#7017 |
| 05:01 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7017 -- Lua_api.txt: Document 'wielditem' visual in object properties by paramat |
| 05:04 |
paramat |
will merge #6999 and 7017 in 5 mins |
| 05:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6999 -- Item entity: Prevent motion in ignore nodes by paramat |
| 05:12 |
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| 05:13 |
paramat |
merged |
| 05:13 |
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| 14:09 |
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| 14:16 |
nerzhul |
merging #7013 |
| 14:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7013 -- Add minetest.is_player by HybridDog |
| 14:26 |
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| 14:26 |
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| 14:49 |
VanessaE |
find_nodes_in_area(): area volume exceeds allowed value of 551368 <--- someone remind me...why does such a limit exist, again? |
| 14:50 |
VanessaE |
and why is this limit and the reasoning for it not documented in lua_api.txt? |
| 14:54 |
VanessaE |
the particular use I have in mind would only return a table with a few hundred entries at most (more likely a couple dozen in practice) |
| 14:57 |
celeron55 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/5277 |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
yeah, read that |
| 14:57 |
celeron55 |
limiting the area seems to be a rather silly way to limit the output size |
| 14:57 |
VanessaE |
but...um, 551k ain't the size of a u32 |
| 14:57 |
celeron55 |
but that's what it's doing |
| 14:59 |
VanessaE |
in any case, I'm trying to figure the best way to resolve a crash in moretrees. it uses ^ that to search for date palm trunks |
| 14:59 |
VanessaE |
(hence the dozens to hundreds max) |
| 15:00 |
VanessaE |
(I didn't write the date palm code, so I don't know what the search size is offhand) |
| 15:04 |
VanessaE |
if it were up to me, I'd have it limit the size of the returned table by omitting random entries |
| 15:05 |
VanessaE |
(as opposed to crashing, or returning only the first or last part of the table) |
| 15:46 |
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| 16:34 |
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| 16:35 |
paramat |
VanessaE yes perhaps that limit is not a great idea. it's set to a default mapchunk plus 1 node of padding |
| 16:36 |
paramat |
will add to docs request |
| 16:37 |
paramat |
could you add an issue about rethinking that limit? |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
if you come up with a better solution, I'd appreciate it if it gets backported to 0.4.x. |
| 16:37 |
VanessaE |
I'll let you make an issue. |
| 16:40 |
paramat |
after all, in some situations a larger search may be ok, as long as we document that large volumes can be intensive |
| 16:41 |
paramat |
you should make the limit issue :] |
| 16:42 |
VanessaE |
I'm kinda busy, and honestly I'm a little down on making issues these days (any project, not just MT) |
| 16:45 |
paramat |
i'll support greatly raising or removing the limit |
| 16:45 |
paramat |
ok |
| 16:45 |
paramat |
will attend |
| 16:47 |
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| 17:30 |
paramat |
#7021 |
| 17:30 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7021 -- Remove or greatly raise volume limits on 'find nodes in area (under air)' |
| 17:47 |
paramat |
#6477 is updated, simple PR, will review |
| 17:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/6477 -- Repositioning formspec item in delete world dialog by srifqi |
| 17:48 |
paramat |
+1 |
| 17:51 |
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| 17:59 |
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| 18:00 |
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| 19:03 |
paramat |
#7009 for close? |
| 19:03 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/7009 -- Guest mode |
| 19:07 |
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| 19:12 |
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| 19:17 |
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| 19:17 |
Wuzzy |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/7019 |
| 19:33 |
sofar |
looks great imho |
| 19:33 |
VanessaE |
+1 |
| 19:33 |
VanessaE |
(finally a Wuzzy proposal I agree with ;) ) |
| 19:34 |
Wuzzy |
s/proposal/PR/ |
| 19:35 |
sofar |
it's a pretty big pr, which is surprising |
| 19:38 |
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| 19:38 |
QwertyCool |
hey everyone |
| 20:05 |
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| 20:17 |
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| 21:02 |
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| 21:34 |
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| 21:36 |
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| 21:39 |
rubenwardy |
sofar: talking about PRs... |
| 21:40 |
sofar |
lol |
| 21:40 |
sofar |
I haven't paid much attention recently, I know there's a few I should look at |
| 21:52 |
Wuzzy |
I'm not happy with the practice of closing almost-but-not-quite-finished PRs. this could seriously harm contributor morale … |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
Which in particular? |
| 21:53 |
Wuzzy |
unless a PR is very old and very hard to integrate, maybe |
| 21:53 |
Wuzzy |
none in particular. its just a general observation. its like ... no activity for 1 month and you're dead |
| 21:53 |
rubenwardy |
The high number of open PRs is probably putting of new contributors |
| 21:54 |
Wuzzy |
yes, this, too |
| 21:54 |
Wuzzy |
woah |
| 21:54 |
Wuzzy |
30 PRs are open but ONLY "Rebase Needed" |
| 21:54 |
rubenwardy |
Part of me wishes I could work on Mt full time, so I could adopt more stale PRs |
| 21:54 |
Wuzzy |
this is frustrating |
| 21:55 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, rebase needed is silly as you don't need it for reviewing |
| 21:55 |
rubenwardy |
Aal |
| 21:55 |
Wuzzy |
woah the oldest rebase needed from 2015… *sobs* |
| 21:57 |
Wuzzy |
well if you want to work on MT fulltime why dont you do it? |
| 21:57 |
rubenwardy |
Money and carrer |
| 21:58 |
rubenwardy |
Uni takes up most of my time currently |
| 21:58 |
rubenwardy |
And during the summer I'm working to build experience for a graduate job |
| 21:58 |
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| 21:58 |
Wuzzy |
if you had the free choice, would you go full MT? Or do you think other things are more interesting to you? |
| 21:59 |
sfan5 |
working on MT full-time sounds pretty terrible to be honest |
| 21:59 |
Wuzzy |
hhahahhahahahaha |
| 22:00 |
Wuzzy |
why? at least as core dev you don't need to go through the tiresome PR process, right? |
| 22:00 |
Wuzzy |
or does it apply to everyone? |
| 22:00 |
sfan5 |
partially |
| 22:00 |
celeron55 |
as a core dev working full time on MT, you'd be forced to run the entire PR process |
| 22:00 |
celeron55 |
:D |
| 22:00 |
rubenwardy |
If money wasn't an issue for the rest of my life, I probably would |
| 22:01 |
sfan5 |
often enough it's still required to bug someone else to give your pr a quick look and approve it |
| 22:01 |
sfan5 |
but you don't need two (other) people to look at it |
| 22:01 |
rubenwardy |
Idk actually, I don't find mt development fun |
| 22:01 |
rubenwardy |
But I like the project |
| 22:02 |
Wuzzy |
ouch. i can see why people would hate to do that. the PR process is really time-consuming and a drain on morale. :( |
| 22:02 |
Wuzzy |
especially when discussions bog down on whether to put a comma after the 7th word in the 334th line XD |
| 22:03 |
celeron55 |
in the end, i would probably do it |
| 22:03 |
rubenwardy |
Tbh, you seem to choice issues which are mostl |
| 22:03 |
celeron55 |
but very, very ironically |
| 22:03 |
rubenwardy |
Likely to discend into bikeshedding |
| 22:04 |
sfan5 |
which color would an official Minetest bike shed have though? |
| 22:04 |
Wuzzy |
gray |
| 22:05 |
sfan5 |
like Irrlicht's GUI? |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
because half of the HUD is gray :D |
| 22:05 |
Wuzzy |
like my soul |
| 22:05 |
celeron55 |
the thing about money is, though, that it always comes from somewhere, and always there will be someone having expectations in that end |
| 22:06 |
Wuzzy |
we still haven't found a solution to combat bikeshedding, really :( its not just my issues that degrade into this |
| 22:06 |
celeron55 |
gray is the most colorful color; it has all the colors! |
| 22:07 |
celeron55 |
and equal amounts at that |
| 22:07 |
nerzhul |
rubenwardy, make MT have strong Unittests is some funs and permits to catch anoying bugs sometimes :p |
| 22:08 |
nerzhul |
when i get some useless time to code in C++ (these days i'm fully coding in golang) i like to add UT to mt |
| 22:09 |
rubenwardy |
Making tests is boring and basically rewardless |
| 22:11 |
Wuzzy |
boring yes, but rewardless, nope |
| 22:11 |
sfan5 |
rewardless yes, but it does have a purpose and helps the project |
| 22:13 |
Wuzzy |
how is a tested codebase not a reward? |
| 22:14 |
Wuzzy |
but mt is pretty stable already, why do i complain? :D |
| 22:14 |
rubenwardy |
There's no thanks |
| 22:15 |
celeron55 |
it would be nice to have an interactive changelog where people could thumbs up stuff |
| 22:17 |
celeron55 |
i don't know how many users would thumbs up unit tests, but maybe someone |
| 22:20 |
celeron55 |
nobody bothers to thank anyone directly these days, but people like to click reaction buttons like there's no tomorrow |
| 22:20 |
nerzhul |
Wuzzy but MT has bugs, like every software |
| 22:21 |
Wuzzy |
interactive changelog? we call this "forum"... xD |
| 22:21 |
celeron55 |
well, i wish the forum actually supported this |
| 22:21 |
celeron55 |
maybe in 10 years i'll have a MT-specific platform which supports all these things i want |
| 22:21 |
celeron55 |
an* |
| 22:22 |
Wuzzy |
voting on changes seems a bit strange. under-the-hood changes are doomed to be unpopular even if they are very important as not everyone will understand them |
| 22:22 |
celeron55 |
not voting |
| 22:23 |
Wuzzy |
well ok not really voting, thumbs upping. anyway its the same here, too |
| 22:23 |
Wuzzy |
it might give *some* insight but its no silver bullet |
| 22:24 |
celeron55 |
maybe we should write to unit test messages who made the test, so you can give a shout to them when it catches your new bug you were about to commit |
| 22:24 |
celeron55 |
8) |
| 22:33 |
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| 22:36 |
QwertyCool |
is anyone here anywhere close to taking on reworking GUI/moving away from formspec? I'd really like to contribute but not sure where to start. |
| 22:37 |
sfan5 |
i don't think that is beyond the idea stage |
| 22:37 |
sfan5 |
moving away from the mess that are formspecs is a quite huge thing |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
everyone would applaud it |
| 22:39 |
QwertyCool |
the reason i ask is because initially i wanted to make scaling better for 4k screens (then scaling in general) but i looked at the dicsussions around scaling and formspec and realised that there's likely to be an overhaul so it's discouraging me from working on adding to formspec's convolution |
| 22:39 |
sofar |
I think you can probably implement it side-by-side with the old api |
| 22:40 |
QwertyCool |
but im preety novice to c++ so just understanding the 3000+ lines that is formspec let alone recoding it seems pretty daunting by myself |
| 22:41 |
sofar |
one point of notice is that if you do redo the formspecs, you probably want to redo the HUD, and of course all the mainmenu stuff as well |
| 22:42 |
QwertyCool |
actually the first change that i realised that would need to be made would be updating settings changes without restarting the client, ie, font_size because thats the part that doesnt yet scale |
| 22:45 |
QwertyCool |
sofar, if written properly do you think far less code would be needed? or about the same? or more? |
| 22:46 |
sfan5 |
more |
| 22:46 |
QwertyCool |
but seperated ? |
| 22:46 |
sofar |
it really needs to be an improvement |
| 22:46 |
sofar |
so, it would be more code |
| 22:46 |
QwertyCool |
i thought we wanted to move away from big files |
| 22:47 |
sofar |
split it into a hundred tiny files, I could care less |
| 22:47 |
sofar |
it will be more code, most likely, in the end :) |
| 22:47 |
sfan5 |
ï½ï½‰ï½ƒï½’ï½ï½“ｅｒｖｉｃｅｓ |
| 22:50 |
sofar |
I'm one of those developers that doesn't mind files with 5kloc |
| 22:50 |
sofar |
etags is for whimps |
| 23:04 |
celeron55 |
QwertyCool: "there's likely to be an overhaul" has been the status for years |
| 23:05 |
celeron55 |
feel free to improve a bit, your work won't be lost for a long time |
| 23:05 |
rubenwardy |
It won't be in 0.5 at leaat |
| 23:07 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: so it'll be lost, it'll just take a while? :P |
| 23:08 |
celeron55 |
literally everything will be lost |
| 23:08 |
celeron55 |
just wait enough! |
| 23:09 |
celeron55 |
usually, in this world, it's a matter of years before a thing basically disappears; if you make a really lasting thing, it'll take tens of years |
| 23:09 |
celeron55 |
in that scale, a formspec improvement is a good investment |
| 23:09 |
celeron55 |
not the best, but a fair one certainly |
| 23:09 |
VanessaE |
celeron55: here. *hands a mop and sponge*... you didn't just kill the joke, you liquified it :P |
| 23:10 |
* celeron55 |
mops VanessaE out of the door |
| 23:25 |
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Foz joined #minetest-dev |
| 23:26 |
QwertyCool |
i thought overhaulw as on the roadmap for 0.5 though |
| 23:27 |
celeron55 |
i guess, 0.5 is still up for it, if it comes to it |
| 23:27 |
celeron55 |
-, |
| 23:28 |
celeron55 |
but nothing is happening in that area |
| 23:28 |
celeron55 |
more of a prediction than a plan |
| 23:29 |
QwertyCool |
ah. |
| 23:29 |
QwertyCool |
maybe you could answer this for me, if formspec is an api of sorts, what files are calling upon it to create the pre-game settings menu, and the pause menu |
| 23:32 |
celeron55 |
off the top of my head, no idea |
| 23:33 |
celeron55 |
builtin/mainmenu :P |
| 23:34 |
paramat |
0.5 is too close to include a formspec overhaul, we want to release it in say 2-3 months and already have lots to do before release |
| 23:35 |
celeron55 |
the pause menu is still not in Lua afaik |
| 23:35 |
celeron55 |
...or is it? |
| 23:35 |
paramat |
redoing formspecs won't break client-server compat (i assume) so can be done later |
| 23:36 |
paramat |
but starting work now is fine of course |
| 23:36 |
sfan5 |
good luck with such a degree of backwards compat |
| 23:36 |
celeron55 |
yeah it's in game.cpp, void Game::showPauseMenu() |
| 23:36 |
sfan5 |
it's already lots of work to make sure mods won't break |
| 23:39 |
paramat |
yes 0.5 is not breaking mods generally |
| 23:39 |
pgimeno_ |
what is wrong about formspecs? the API? the textual format? the implementation? |
| 23:41 |
celeron55 |
i'm fine with them; really they just need a proper rewrite with positioning, scaling and styling fixed |
| 23:41 |
celeron55 |
some issues come from irrlicht's input and UI system also |
| 23:41 |
rubenwardy |
They don't adapt to different screen sizes well |
| 23:42 |
celeron55 |
so to answer the question: the implementation |
| 23:42 |
celeron55 |
essentially, if there was a perfect implementation, nobody would bother to complain |
| 23:43 |
celeron55 |
well ok, probably would; but then you'd be in some really difficult toolkit features that are really just utopia |
| 23:44 |
celeron55 |
(my dream is a CSM-run pure Lua toolkit like i've said, but that's probably just dreaming also) |
| 23:46 |
pgimeno_ |
well, love2d is programmed in Lua exclusively, and there are GUI libs for it, so it's not off the table |
| 23:47 |
pgimeno_ |
I happen to be the maintainer of one such lib, after the original author went AWOL |
| 23:48 |
celeron55 |
i'm interested in any proof-of-concepts |
| 23:49 |
pgimeno_ |
well, with apologies for the off-topic, you need love2d to run it, but here it is: https://github.com/pgimeno/Gspot |
| 23:49 |
celeron55 |
(i can say i certainly didn't expect a maintainer of a lua gui library to just pop in here... lol) |
| 23:49 |
pgimeno_ |
it comes with a demo |
| 23:50 |
celeron55 |
it assumes the entirety of love2d's API, right? |
| 23:50 |
pgimeno_ |
yeah |
| 23:52 |
celeron55 |
some kind of a defined subset version would probably be needed and then a CSM API and a wrapper+fill-in library in between |
| 23:53 |
pgimeno_ |
let me say that particular lib isn't very complete, it lacks multi-line textboxes for example |
| 23:55 |
celeron55 |
do you know of one that would support the things people currently do with formspecs? |
| 23:57 |
pgimeno_ |
hm, luigi may be close, https://github.com/airstruck/luigi |
| 23:57 |
pgimeno_ |
I'm not aware of any such lib supporting tables, but I haven't studied them in depth |
| 23:57 |
paramat |
for the mediumm term i would prefer to keep formspecs and just try to improve them, instead of a complete replacement and the work and disruption. but this opinion is partly due to lack of dev time |
| 23:57 |
pgimeno_ |
tables as in HTML-like tables |
| 23:58 |
paramat |
i know formspecs are not great, but i fear the process of replacement more. 'try to avoid big rewrites' |
| 23:58 |
celeron55 |
luigi looks to have some extra backend support |
| 23:58 |
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