| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 03:18 |
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| 14:30 |
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| 14:31 |
sfan5 |
>try to do simple thing |
| 14:31 |
sfan5 |
>it's only available in c++20 |
| 14:31 |
sfan5 |
pain |
| 14:33 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> time to update |
| 15:06 |
celeron55 |
it's funny how every C++ version implements features that people then consider essential. that means C++ was broken until then, and every time it rolls on |
| 15:07 |
nrz |
C++ is a turtle. When you see at the speed rust,go and java rollout version features, they must change something. |
| 15:08 |
nrz |
the most important feature to make C++ really revive in terms of dev community is having proper packaging/modules support, like any language has natively now |
| 15:11 |
celeron55 |
i often say about rust that rust could have been C++ with a built in packaging system and it would have been already halfway there. the borrow/lifetime system is almost just icing on the cake |
| 15:41 |
nrz |
yeah the lifetime is comprehensible and strenght in the language but also nightmare sometimes 😄 |
| 15:43 |
celeron55 |
it makes proof of concepts more work to make. the code really only compiles once it's almost finished. you spend more time writing code before getting to iterate on it |
| 15:44 |
celeron55 |
but the benefit is, maintenance is much easier, you have almost zero risk breaking things in weird ways |
| 15:45 |
celeron55 |
you can try to reach it with very strict C++ coding, but C++ will never actually prevent you. it's always up to a code review in the end |
| 15:46 |
celeron55 |
and with C++ you have to absolutely comb through the code in that review |
| 15:47 |
celeron55 |
with rust you're mostly looking for unsafe{} blocks and if there are none, you're pretty much memory safe and can just check the high level logic is sound |
| 15:48 |
celeron55 |
again, this has no relevance at the beginning of a project, but a very high relevance once the project is being maintained |
| 16:02 |
nrz |
in  rust you need code review, because memory safe doesn't mean your feature is properly designed/not bugued |
| 16:03 |
celeron55 |
still less work to review though |
| 16:04 |
celeron55 |
anyway, it almost doesn't make sense to think about it in isolation. the packaging system and the open source community is a big part of it |
| 16:04 |
celeron55 |
the language is designed to support both of them |
| 16:10 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> If you want to convert this game to rust I'm on board |
| 16:14 |
celeron55 |
it would also entail switching to different libraries |
| 16:14 |
celeron55 |
it would be an absolutely silly amount of work |
| 16:14 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> and maybe rust+lua to be harder |
| 16:14 |
celeron55 |
of course, looking 10 years into the future, C++ might not be as "popular" as it has been for the past 10 years |
| 16:14 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Nah rust+lua is pretty easy |
| 16:15 |
celeron55 |
but also, looking 10 years into the future, nothing has to be started today |
| 16:16 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> If you just, so happen to, possibly, even accidentally perhaps, to make a minetest-rust repo on github, I might accidentally commit a few PRs into it. By coincidence of course |
| 16:17 |
celeron55 |
if C++ gets an official build system and package ecosystem, it might stay relevant decades into the future. it could even increase in popularity |
| 16:18 |
celeron55 |
by starting a rust project right now, one will tap into a ridiculous hours of free developer time as many C++ developers are looking to learn rust, and they need to do projects to learn it |
| 16:18 |
celeron55 |
that's a resource that shouldn't be underestimated |
| 16:19 |
celeron55 |
also other than C++ programmers, i think there are some C#, java, go and whatever else also, and those are even bigger communities to take from |
| 16:20 |
celeron55 |
the learnconomics (yes, i just invented a word) of rust are good |
| 16:22 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> From my excitement throwing myself into the c++ 20 standard: No compiler even supports modules correctly and I tried for ~2 days, so the build system/package ecosystem might not be coming anytime this decade |
| 16:23 |
nrz |
C++ commitee is old conservatives  which doesn't understand anything to the developer market then.... |
| 16:23 |
celeron55 |
modules aren't ingrained into the C++ community in such a way that they would make people excited to implement them |
| 16:24 |
celeron55 |
people don't think on that level |
| 16:24 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Oh people are VERY excited for modules. Basically completely evaporates headers! |
| 16:24 |
celeron55 |
people think of header, source and object files, like 50 years ago |
| 16:25 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Building back up from the ground, next to the old house, you can see where you shouldn't have hardcoded/implemented certain things, and fix bugs where they are kind of "the brick supporting the wall" |
| 16:26 |
celeron55 |
C++20 was published in 2020, which is 3 years ago. it worries me if compilers still don't implement the standard correctly. are you sure you're using recent compiler versions? |
| 16:27 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I was using literally the latest version I could get my hands on |
| 16:27 |
celeron55 |
it might of course take 3 years for the compilers to implement the standard properly, and then 3 years for those compiler versions to end up in linux distros |
| 16:27 |
celeron55 |
so, 6 years in total then |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
rust differs from C++ in that the compiler essentially is the standard. if it doesn't have something, it's not in rust, and if it does, it is |
| 16:28 |
celeron55 |
it's quite different |
| 16:30 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> https://robert.kra.hn/posts/2022-09-09-speeding-up-incremental-rust-compilation-with-dylibs/ |
| 16:31 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> There are a few tricks to make the builds after the first one incremental, it's fun |
| 16:32 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Then there is a different linker https://github.com/rui314/mold not sure about this one but it has looked interesting |
| 16:33 |
sfan5 |
I follow the creator of this linker on twitter, he posts a lot of cat pictures |
| 17:01 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Minetest 2.0, what a surreal thought |
| 17:20 |
sfan5 |
quick reminder that #13929 is really simple and needs a review |
| 17:20 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/13929 -- Remove use_texture_alpha compatibility code for nodeboxes & meshes by sfan5 |
| 17:51 |
nrz |
sfan5: approved |
| 18:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> how many symbols i can sent via formspec field? |
| 18:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> how many symbols i can send via formspec field? |
| 18:57 |
Krock |
at least 64k |
| 18:57 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> thanks |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
more accurately: better ask "how many bytes". Unicode characters may take 4 bytes. |
| 18:58 |
Krock |
> fields[fieldname] = pkt->readLongString(); |
| 18:59 |
Krock |
AFAIK that's a 32-bit unsigned number for the string length, so you should be fiiiiine |
| 19:00 |
Krock |
but try to keep all fields below 640 KiB or the server will refuse them: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/blob/master/src/network/serverpackethandler.cpp#L1364-L1365 |
| 19:00 |
sfan5 |
in other words: if you have to ask this question then you are doing it wrong |
| 19:00 |
Krock |
right. that too. |
| 19:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> It just text sequence of param2 separated by dot :D Just ask it for check how many possible transmit data :D |
| 19:03 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> But I know about hard limit of array in lua 64k elements is max |
| 19:07 |
[MTMatrix] |
<localhost> so... Good. This limit acceptable, because prevent spam without some checks in lua code |
| 19:11 |
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| 20:07 |
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| 21:26 |
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| 22:04 |
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| 22:16 |
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| 22:29 |
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