| Time |
Nick |
Message |
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| 13:39 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Why can't we have nice things? (like c++20) |
| 13:43 |
celeron55_ |
are we tracking the status of C++20 on our target platforms at the moment? |
| 13:43 |
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| 13:43 |
grorp |
merging #14472 in 15 min (thanks sfan5) |
| 13:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14472 -- TouchScreenGUI dehardcoding refactor by grorp |
| 13:43 |
sfan5 |
i don't think so |
| 13:43 |
sfan5 |
merging #14546 in 15m after grorp's merge |
| 13:43 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14546 -- Fix missing DLLs in Windows build by sfan5 |
| 13:46 |
celeron55_ |
i think there's starting to be a high chance it's supported on each platform |
| 13:47 |
celeron55_ |
one good thing is that centos was finally discontinued. it tended to be worse than debian |
| 13:48 |
celeron55_ |
do we consider g++ 12 to have enough c++20 support? |
| 13:48 |
sfan5 |
i think we first have to define what we event want c++20 for |
| 13:48 |
sfan5 |
spans? |
| 13:49 |
celeron55_ |
@herowl which features would you like to use from c++20? |
| 13:52 |
celeron55_ |
debian stable seems to have gcc 12 and glibc 6, if i'm not mistaken |
| 13:52 |
sfan5 |
wasn't there once some PR that formalized the "which platforms do we support" thing? |
| 13:52 |
celeron55_ |
span is in glibc 7, altough i'm 55% certain i'm looking this up wrong |
| 13:53 |
sfan5 |
that should be libstdc++, not glibc |
| 13:53 |
celeron55_ |
wait |
| 13:53 |
celeron55_ |
this was the llvm one, yes |
| 13:54 |
sfan5 |
[2023-06-11 21:23:56] <sfan5> anyway for estimating which compilers or libraries we can require I have suggested in the past to check the oldest still-supported Ubuntu, Debian and maybe Fedora |
| 13:54 |
celeron55_ |
https://gcc.gnu.org/projects/cxx-status.html#cxx20 |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> At this point I wanted to use https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/string/basic_string/ends_with |
| 13:54 |
celeron55_ |
https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/libstdc++/manual/status.html#status.iso.2020 |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
we have str_ends_with for that in util/string.h |
| 13:57 |
celeron55_ |
ok so anyway debian stable is at 12 for g++ and libstdc++, which makes sense (i'm sure differing versions don't go well together...) |
| 14:00 |
celeron55_ |
it's difficult to figure out the details (like ends_with) but it seems to me debian is probably good here |
| 14:00 |
celeron55_ |
ubuntu 22.04 LTS is at 11, which might be too old |
| 14:02 |
celeron55_ |
and what's worse, the older ubuntu 20.04 LTS has official support until 2025. it uses gcc 9 |
| 14:03 |
celeron55_ |
fedora has a tight release schedule, i don't think it will ever be the bottleneck for us |
| 14:03 |
nrz |
celeron55_ better to target C++17 first which should be fine, C++20 is not widely implemented |
| 14:04 |
nrz |
C++17 permit to remove nearly all our porting around filesys |
| 14:05 |
celeron55_ |
not everything out of c++17 is supported by gcc 9, but most things are |
| 14:05 |
celeron55_ |
it would probably be doable now |
| 14:05 |
nrz |
gcc 9 is the one in debian 11 right ? |
| 14:05 |
celeron55_ |
actually, gcc 9 does support everything in c++17, but the standard library doesn't have everything |
| 14:06 |
celeron55_ |
i'm looking at debian bookworm which is the stable now |
| 14:06 |
celeron55_ |
whatever the number for that is. debian doesn't really show the number anywhere |
| 14:07 |
celeron55_ |
and this debian has gcc 12 |
| 14:07 |
celeron55_ |
it's not the bottleneck |
| 14:07 |
celeron55_ |
ubuntu LTS is the bottleneck |
| 14:07 |
nrz |
if the issue is glibc, we have another problem then 😄 |
| 14:07 |
celeron55_ |
ubuntu LTS has gcc 9 |
| 14:10 |
celeron55_ |
anyway, i agree with nrz about c++17. support for it is ok now. just make sure our CI does a build on ubuntu 20.04 LTS as that's the worst target platform |
| 14:13 |
celeron55_ |
and yes, let me rephrase that: the "Worst C++ Target Platform of 2024" prize goes to Ubntu 20.04 LTS. go ahead and give them an applause |
| 14:13 |
celeron55_ |
+u |
| 14:18 |
nrz |
it's LTS - 2 this month , 24.04 will replace 22.04 |
| 14:19 |
celeron55_ |
doesn't change the fact that it's still supported by ubuntu until 2025 |
| 14:20 |
nrz |
right 🙂 |
| 14:55 |
sfan5 |
we're already on c++17 :) |
| 15:43 |
pgimeno |
is Debian LTS unsupported by Minetest? |
| 15:44 |
pgimeno |
Debian LTS has GCC 8.3 |
| 15:47 |
pgimeno |
support ends in June though |
| 15:48 |
sfan5 |
it probably works on there |
| 15:49 |
nrz |
sfan5, oh amazing, missed it |
| 16:11 |
sfan5 |
https://www.minetest.net/downloads/ it's funny how nobody ever updated the BSD instructions to tell people to *not* install MTG |
| 16:15 |
MTDiscord |
<zmv7> PR welcome? 😏 |
| 16:17 |
sfan5 |
always |
| 16:17 |
sfan5 |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest.github.io |
| 16:51 |
rubenwardy |
Why is Ubuntu 24.04 still shipping with 5.6? Who do we complain to about this https://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=minetest |
| 16:52 |
sfan5 |
https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/minetest -> maintainer: Debian Games Team |
| 16:52 |
rubenwardy |
oh right |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
5.8.0 is still in unstable, is it likely to miss 24.04 then |
| 16:53 |
sfan5 |
s/likely/guaranteed/ |
| 16:53 |
rubenwardy |
so Minetest is going to be 3.5 years outdated by the time we get to the next lts :/ |
| 16:54 |
rubenwardy |
this will really drag out any renaming attempts |
| 16:54 |
ROllerozxa |
has debian debundled MTG from their base minetest 5.8.0 package? |
| 16:55 |
rubenwardy |
yes |
| 16:55 |
rubenwardy |
and disabled the update checker |
| 16:57 |
rubenwardy |
https://gist.github.com/rubenwardy/eb481b51a5e0574e5219b6967752bdb0 |
| 16:58 |
ROllerozxa |
huh. I'm surprised they didn't keep MTG just to be petty |
| 16:59 |
rubenwardy |
what I want from a distro is a stable base/os and up to date applications. Having stale applications, especially when they're networked, is quite annoying |
| 16:59 |
rubenwardy |
I suppose a 'stable' distro and flatpak is the most feasible way to achieve tihs |
| 17:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> rubenwardy: I implemented most of your comments in #14543 |
| 17:00 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14543 -- WIP: Add gameid aliases by nauta-turbidus |
| 17:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> I have problems with the updater though |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
nice! |
| 17:00 |
ROllerozxa |
actually I checked the file list of the version of minetest-data in debian sid (5.8.0+dfsg+~1.9.0mt13-1) and there's both devtest and MTG in here |
| 17:00 |
rubenwardy |
eek |
| 17:02 |
ROllerozxa |
> Install games directory manually, as upstream's make install no longer does it. |
| 17:02 |
ROllerozxa |
Debian™ |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
oh I thought minetest-data is deprecated? |
| 17:02 |
ROllerozxa |
minetest-data is where the common data is stored used for both the client and server package |
| 17:02 |
rubenwardy |
grr |
| 17:04 |
sfan5 |
projects usually deal with this by rejecting bug reports from debian users, because their application could be patched in many surprising ways :) |
| 17:06 |
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| 17:07 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> rubenwardy: I am not really sure how updater should deal with a rename. Should it just go through the list of aliases and remove any game folders going by those names? What if somebody manually created a folder named like that? |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
You don't need to read the aliases, just look at package.path |
| 17:07 |
rubenwardy |
It will point to the old name |
| 17:08 |
rubenwardy |
What Debian should do is move MTG to its own package, and at most Recommend it |
| 17:15 |
ROllerozxa |
yeah |
| 17:16 |
ROllerozxa |
I mean they could package however many games for debian as they want, just like how they package a bunch of ancient mods |
| 17:16 |
sfan5 |
there we go: #14556 <- feedback wanted |
| 17:16 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14556 -- Formalize OS support policy by sfan5 |
| 17:18 |
sfan5 |
I just realized we should exclude debian oldoldstable because that doesn't work even now |
| 17:31 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Updating CMake to a newer version for development is very straightforward. |
| 17:32 |
sfan5 |
I know you can download a binary from the cmake website, are you getting at that? |
| 17:32 |
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| 17:32 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I think there's a script that updates it for you, but I have not personally used it since last summer I think, so I don't remember the details. |
| 17:34 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> I think it would interfere with any installed system version, so it's only useful on a development-specific environment. |
| 17:34 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Depending on your workflow I suppose that would be frustrating to have to update. |
| 17:35 |
MTDiscord |
<josiah_wi> Not on the same level as compiling a newer version of GCC though. |
| 17:38 |
sfan5 |
my opinion on downloading cmake binaries: sure it works but I feel it's bad practice. a mere build system is not something I'd want to download separately |
| 17:40 |
* v-rob |
wants C++20 modules and C++23 import std; but only MSVC supports them fully |
| 17:41 |
v-rob |
It's a strange day, when Microsoft supports the standards before GCC or Clang do |
| 18:19 |
sfan5 |
also could someone take a look at #14534? It's not complex but also not simple enough that I want to merge it with 1 approval |
| 18:19 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14534 -- [no sq] Profiler improvement + an optimization by sfan5 |
| 18:28 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> OK, I can't figure out how do I check if it should be renamed? Because it looks like after a rename update installs to the old folder, right? |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> @rubenwardy |
| 18:33 |
rubenwardy |
get the folder name and compare it with the package name (after normalising to remove _game) |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> rubenwardy: is there a function to rename a directory? |
| 18:42 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> or do I copy and remove the original dir? |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> as I don't see a move function either... |
| 18:44 |
rubenwardy |
delete the old dir |
| 18:45 |
rubenwardy |
mt already deletes the old dir when updating |
| 18:45 |
rubenwardy |
so the behaviour should be to delete the correct old dir and install to the correct new dir |
| 18:49 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> rubenwardy: ok, how do I test it? I guess we don't have such cases in CDB? |
| 18:51 |
rubenwardy |
In the fetch_pkgs function in contentdb.lua, you could modify `aliases` of a specific game |
| 18:51 |
rubenwardy |
Say you when the package.name == mineclone2, you could add package.aliases = { "foobar" }. Then locally rename the mineclone2 folder to foobar |
| 18:51 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> alright |
| 18:52 |
rubenwardy |
* aliases = { "Wuzzy/foobar" } |
| 18:53 |
rubenwardy |
you'll also need to reduce `release` in the game.conf so it detects an update |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> works |
| 19:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> why not use os.rename if it's just a rename? copying & deleting seems unnecessarily wasteful |
| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Well, it deletes the old directory when updating and writes it anew anyway |
| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> so I leveraged that |
| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> (no extra copies and deletes) |
| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ah okay |
| 20:01 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Everything is at https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14543 if you want to take a look |
| 20:35 |
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