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| 00:04 |
FriendlyPerson[m |
<Xanabella> "maybe not we has problem but..." <- I am sorry if I ran you quite late, I didn't mean too as I didn't think this would be such a problem. Another Librea user just DMed me today by inviting me and it's worked on their side. So I thought you were be fine but I guess I was wrong about that. Sorry. :( |
| 00:20 |
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| 00:28 |
Xanabella |
Belief me, i was diffrent ... open your eye, build your own opinion, you are old enof to learn from you own faults and gather experiance on the way of GOD-like |
| 00:32 |
* specing |
idly wonders if Xanabella is a bot ... really hard to understand |
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| 00:41 |
Xanabella |
ParaNOid AndroID was near bot ... not 3D, Matrix ReTracer ---> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzuOHYpTBck |
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Topic for #minetest is now The official Minetest channel | Latest version: 5.4.1 (2021-04-10) | General, player and modding discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://wiki.minetest.net/IRC#Rules | Development: #minetest-dev | Server list: https://minetest.net/servers | IRC logs: https://irc.minetest.net/minetest |
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| 07:07 |
grouinos |
hello |
| 07:08 |
grouinos |
i there somebody ? |
| 07:10 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> hello |
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helix[m] |
@grouinos sup |
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| 07:36 |
grouinos |
hello, i have installing MinetestAmbience 36 but i can't cut the music, an idea ? |
| 07:39 |
grouinos |
m |
| 07:40 |
grouinos |
i try /mvol 0 but don't work |
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| 10:23 |
Tusha |
Hi there all. Is there any guide to apply TDD on Minetest Modding? |
| 10:44 |
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| 10:53 |
BuckarooBanzai |
Tusha: test-driven development? |
| 11:01 |
celeron55_ |
you probably have to separate your code into the actual logic, and a glue layer that sticks the logic to minetest, and then for tests you replace the glue layer with your unit test layer |
| 11:02 |
rubenwardy |
!book unit |
| 11:02 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Automatic Unit Testing - https://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book//en/quality/unit_testing.html |
| 11:02 |
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| 11:02 |
BuckarooBanzai |
There is "busted" and "mineunit" (https://github.com/mt-mods/mineunit) the combination is pretty good IMO |
| 11:02 |
rubenwardy |
Yeah, you need to separate logic from "views", where a view is something like an entity, callback, or node def |
| 11:03 |
celeron55_ |
of course depending on what you want to test. if you want to test engine integration, then you have to set up a test world and observe your code and the engine running together, like what Unity Test Framework does on Unity3D (i think) |
| 11:03 |
rubenwardy |
That would be an integration test |
| 11:03 |
celeron55_ |
well, depends |
| 11:03 |
celeron55_ |
but it gets to that territory for sure |
| 11:04 |
BuckarooBanzai |
Integration tests got a lot simpler since we have the versioned minetest-docker images |
| 11:04 |
rubenwardy |
https://gitlab.com/rubenwardy/conquer/-/tree/master/tests |
| 11:04 |
rubenwardy |
If you're running Minetest, it's not a unit test |
| 11:05 |
BuckarooBanzai |
both test-variants have up- and downsides |
| 11:05 |
BuckarooBanzai |
a mix of both does cover most of your errors |
| 11:06 |
rubenwardy |
Having mocks is good for unit testing though, which is what Mineunit looks like |
| 11:08 |
Tusha |
BuckarooBanzai: Yeah that was what I meant, thanks :) |
| 11:09 |
Tusha |
Thank everyone for the useful info, indeed all I want now is how feasible is to practice Test Driven Development on Minetest Lua Environment, I will check that out :) |
| 11:09 |
Tusha |
At least unit-testing for Code based errors, since I'm not versed in Lua |
| 11:10 |
BuckarooBanzai |
i would recommend to start simple, a small mod maybe and later on go into the testing territory ;) |
| 11:14 |
Tusha |
Well, I wanted to practice TDD mostly, as I aspire to work on other languages using that methology, like making a boilerplate even if it is just an small Hello MTest mod, but indeed I will try to start small, thanks for the advice :) |
| 11:19 |
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| 11:20 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> You can easily do TDD with Lua, but you can hardly do TDD with Minetest |
| 11:20 |
celeron55_ |
i don't have any experience with mineunit but if it's well made and properly acts like the engine you can skip a lot of work making tests possible for your code with it |
| 11:22 |
rubenwardy |
TDD is overrated |
| 11:22 |
rubenwardy |
But you can get good test coverage with Minetest mods |
| 11:24 |
celeron55_ |
personally, i first and foremost just write robust code that barely can fail, but sometimes you just end up with such a complex system that you're every day afraid it will just crumble to pieces. or your teammates always break stuff. then write unit tests 8) |
| 11:24 |
rubenwardy |
(I rarely write tests first, I usually write the code then the tests. TDD requires too much planning) |
| 11:25 |
rubenwardy |
There's no such thing as robust code without unit tests |
| 11:25 |
rubenwardy |
Unless it is actually trivial, architecturally and logically |
| 11:25 |
celeron55_ |
the best code is trivial, architecturally and logically |
| 11:26 |
BuckarooBanzai |
SX (the author of mineunit) went almost the whole way in terms of engine api surface, some testing examples https://github.com/mt-mods/technic/tree/master/technic/spec |
| 11:27 |
celeron55_ |
i'm trying to remember some time that i've decided to use TDD, but can't come up with any |
| 11:28 |
celeron55_ |
but a certain kind of interface-first development process kind of is TDD |
| 11:29 |
celeron55_ |
without officially being TDD |
| 11:29 |
celeron55_ |
i'll call it tests-on-the-go |
| 11:48 |
Xanabella |
MineTest Alpha, expept many bug: Good testdev to try/learn and if you are proud of what you have make, share the Mod ... to found bug, you never exept ... trust the com |
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rubenwardy |
Yeah, I've only ever done TDD in university. It's something that fits waterfall development more than agile code |
| 12:25 |
rubenwardy |
Actually, that's not true. I've done it with my pathfinder and a few compiler projects |
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| 12:25 |
rubenwardy |
It works then because the interface is straight forward from the beginning |
| 12:30 |
celeron55_ |
it also depends on what you know beforehand |
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| 12:31 |
celeron55_ |
if you already have a very specific problem in mind, you might as well write the problem as a test first |
| 12:32 |
celeron55_ |
it'll help you think further even if the test itself isn't actually that important |
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| 17:04 |
Tusha |
Also, is possible to create files using a clientside mod? At least some kind of text ones |
| 17:05 |
specing |
yes, but you have to patch the client |
| 17:07 |
Tusha |
And I suppose that servers don't like that? |
| 17:07 |
Tusha |
Or is safe to do so? |
| 17:09 |
specing |
the files are created on your machine, the server is as clueless about it as a rock |
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| 17:15 |
Tusha |
Oh, I though they could enforce some kind of client verification that it has not been tampered with in any way |
| 17:15 |
rubenwardy |
clientside mods aren't send from servers currently |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
but the sandbox is designed under the assumption that they will be, so doesn't allow editing files |
| 17:16 |
rubenwardy |
you have mod storage though |
| 17:17 |
Tusha |
I see, well the problem with mod storage is that is not plain text, or at least that was I read |
| 17:17 |
Tusha |
My idea is to see if is possible to make a chat logger that doesn't rely on debug.txt |
| 17:17 |
Tusha |
But that is easily searchable without interpreters |
| 17:19 |
specing |
Tusha: https://repo.or.cz/waspsaliva.git |
| 17:21 |
sfan5 |
recommending people full-fledged cheat clients in response to scripting questions is really something |
| 17:22 |
specing |
Well, yes. Because the official client cannot be used for this, and Tusha would have to waste time poking holes in the sandbox instead of actually working on their project. |
| 17:24 |
Tusha |
Well thanks specing, I will give it a try |
| 17:25 |
Tusha |
I suppose in the future some kind of CORS-like protection for clientside mods would be useful, like letting self-installed mods io access but not those from the server |
| 17:26 |
rubenwardy |
not really possible, unless you split up mods into different lua states |
| 17:26 |
sfan5 |
that has to happen anyway |
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| 19:05 |
MinetestBot |
[git] hecktest -> minetest/minetest: Remove statement semicolons from a lua script eefa39e https://git.io/JR2cG (2021-08-09T19:03:18Z) |
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