| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:10 |
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| 00:11 |
rubenwardy |
https://content.minetest.net/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/hub/ |
| 00:11 |
rubenwardy |
!title |
| 00:11 |
MinetestBot |
rubenwardy: Community Hub -MineClone 2 by Wuzzy - ContentDB |
| 00:11 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB now uses some fancy graph theory to work out what games a mod supports |
| 00:15 |
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| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
this is largely an experiment to see how effective the algorithm it |
| 00:18 |
rubenwardy |
-it +is |
| 00:24 |
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| 01:05 |
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| 01:20 |
ronoaldo |
is there an updated android version for 5.5? |
| 01:28 |
gargamel |
I got an Android update ronoaldo |
| 01:28 |
ronoaldo |
nice, so it is just rolling out then! should be showing up for me soon. |
| 01:29 |
gargamel |
Yea it was a day or two ago. |
| 01:31 |
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| 01:35 |
rubenwardy |
ronoaldo, gargamel: I did a partial roll out. Just checked the console, and the error rate has massively increased |
| 01:35 |
rubenwardy |
so will pause the roll out until the cause can be checked |
| 01:36 |
ronoaldo |
rubenwardy: ok! thanks for the update :D |
| 01:37 |
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| 01:38 |
ronoaldo |
my irc client showed up the wrong emoji, hopefully it has not propagated as a "face with tears of joy" and actually a "slightly smiling face" unicode (if any) |
| 01:39 |
rubenwardy |
lol. I see the text `:D` |
| 01:39 |
rubenwardy |
:\D |
| 01:40 |
ronoaldo |
yeah, it was showing up very weird for me here lol glad it was just plain text then |
| 01:42 |
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| 02:18 |
jingkaimori |
who handles this issue now? https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/1367 |
| 02:19 |
rubenwardy |
no one currently |
| 02:19 |
rubenwardy |
there's an abandoned PR that could be salvaged |
| 02:20 |
jingkaimori |
So I can try on it without collide with others |
| 02:20 |
rubenwardy |
yeah |
| 02:21 |
jingkaimori |
Are there breaking change affected texture modifier now? |
| 02:21 |
jingkaimori |
like [png:... |
| 02:27 |
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| 09:07 |
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| 09:16 |
erlehmann |
<jingkaimori> Are there breaking change affected texture modifier now? |
| 09:16 |
erlehmann |
<jingkaimori> like [png:... |
| 09:16 |
erlehmann |
i would be surprised if [png is used already, it's pretty gnarly |
| 09:17 |
erlehmann |
can dynamic media be referenced in texture modifiers? i hope so |
| 10:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yes OFC, otherwise Epidermis wouldn't be possible |
| 10:02 |
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| 10:09 |
erlehmann |
luatic i guess you agree that [png is not very useful then? |
| 10:10 |
erlehmann |
like whenever i thought of it, i thought: if i EVER put something inline, it has to be human-readable |
| 10:10 |
erlehmann |
which leaves only PPM, PBM, PNM |
| 10:11 |
erlehmann |
and due to the fact that [png contains base64 encoded PNG, about 96 bytes of it are overhead. i can definitely put some small texture in the overhead of [png alone! |
| 10:11 |
erlehmann |
(if using any of the PxM plaintext formats) |
| 10:13 |
erlehmann |
i should probably write an issue on that |
| 10:29 |
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| 12:10 |
sfan5 |
human readable? wat |
| 12:27 |
celeron55 |
human readable image formats seem a bit absurd to me |
| 12:28 |
rubenwardy |
PNGs are human readable, if you display them |
| 12:29 |
celeron55 |
the only time i've used them is for compiling images into a program binary for a microcontroller |
| 12:29 |
celeron55 |
i.e. direct inclusion into source code, where source code is the human readable format |
| 12:30 |
celeron55 |
that's quite far from a network transmission format |
| 12:40 |
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| 13:02 |
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| 13:05 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 i have worked quite a bit with human readable image formats and they are pretty good for small (!) in-band signaled textures. think 16x16 monochrome bitmaps (like unifont) or something. |
| 13:07 |
erlehmann |
when textures become large, i think they should not be in texture modifiers tbh |
| 13:08 |
erlehmann |
back-of-the-envelope calculation: with a [pbm modifier you would use approximately as many bytes as [png would for a 10 x 10 bitmap or so, only that the pbm thing would be human-readable |
| 13:09 |
erlehmann |
well, png would use a bit more ig |
| 13:09 |
erlehmann |
but you see where i'm going: only for small images inband texture modifiers make sense – but for small images, base64 encoded png with about 96 bytes of overhead is not the best format |
| 13:10 |
erlehmann |
if someone wants to stuff large images in texture modifiers, my question is: WHY |
| 13:10 |
erlehmann |
is this a caching question? |
| 13:10 |
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| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
P1 |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
8 8 |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
00000000 |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
01101100 |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
11111110 |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
11010110 |
| 13:11 |
erlehmann |
11000110 |
| 13:11 |
|
erlehmann was kicked by ShadowBot: Message flood detected. Use a pastebin like paste.ubuntu.com. |
| 13:11 |
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| 13:12 |
erlehmann |
i try again: [pbm P1 8 8 00000000 01101100 11111110 11010110 11000110 01101100 00111000 00010000 |
| 13:13 |
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| 13:14 |
erlehmann |
the png version of that is [png:iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAQAAAAEAAQAAAAB0CZXLAAAAUElEQVRo3u3XsQoAIAhAQf//p20pkKBaA+9NhjcLRT4KAABag5jtMwAAvcEtAACA+jgdFAAAeoMVAABAfvLHAQDgX1AXdQkAAFBRbgEA0BYMVqzvAI7d1EAAAAAASUVORK5CYI |
| 13:14 |
erlehmann |
celeron55 rubenwardy does this change your opinion? |
| 13:15 |
rubenwardy |
I personally don't like sending image data in this way, at all |
| 13:15 |
erlehmann |
then better axe [png before ppl start relying on it seriously |
| 13:15 |
erlehmann |
it was a bad idea from the start |
| 13:15 |
erlehmann |
dynamic media is better |
| 13:15 |
erlehmann |
i mean there is one usecase, maybe |
| 13:16 |
erlehmann |
if texture modifiers are garbage collected (are they?) you can get some ephemeral texture thing that way, maybe? |
| 13:16 |
erlehmann |
still, [png as a texture modifier looks like an abomination to me |
| 13:17 |
erlehmann |
i'll use dynamic media. and i would use a pbm/pgm/pnm based modifier, but also for small (like 8x8) textures |
| 13:17 |
erlehmann |
only |
| 13:17 |
erlehmann |
rubenwardy, btw you have a small bug in your recent mod compatibility code. it shows mods that are – to my knowledge – included in mineclone5 as compatible with mineclone5. |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
technically true |
| 13:18 |
erlehmann |
extra_mobs for example has been merged into mineclone5 afaik |
| 13:18 |
erlehmann |
so installing it will *not* be a good thing |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
Farming Redo uses the mod name farming, and is compatible with MTG |
| 13:18 |
erlehmann |
oh okay? |
| 13:18 |
rubenwardy |
it's perfectly allowed for a mod to override a game's mod |
| 13:18 |
erlehmann |
well in this case its the same author even, so there is no difference. but i guess that can't be detected. |
| 13:19 |
erlehmann |
also i need to talk to kay27 about not diverging with mods in mineclone5 from stuff that works in mineclone2 or mineclonia. |
| 13:19 |
erlehmann |
otherwise that name-based compatibiltiy thing is going to break down soon |
| 13:19 |
erlehmann |
(he has a bit of a habit of making huge refactorings) |
| 13:20 |
rubenwardy |
that's problem with name based dependencies, there's no concept of fork or versions |
| 13:28 |
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| 13:39 |
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| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erlehmann: texture modifiers aren't GCed currently |
| 13:54 |
erlehmann |
luatic that makes [png even more of a bad thing imo |
| 13:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> In fact I'm pretty sure dynamic media has less overhead than the texture modifier, as the texture modifier stores the data twice |
| 13:54 |
erlehmann |
why was it even approved |
| 13:55 |
erlehmann |
is there any mod using it? |
| 13:55 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (once in base64 form as texture modifier, the second time as actual texture) |
| 13:55 |
erlehmann |
(everything i know uses dynamic media) |
| 13:55 |
erlehmann |
(or texture modifiers from hell, but those can't compete with base64 binary nonsense) |
| 13:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> erlehmann: it does have certain very limited use cases, such as only having the data pollute the cache of those clients who actually see it |
| 13:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> consider an entity with a [png texture set - dynamic media would require the texture be sent to all players |
| 13:56 |
erlehmann |
yeah but the *smallest* [png payload is a ~100 byte binary blob |
| 13:56 |
erlehmann |
oh i see |
| 13:56 |
erlehmann |
oh crap |
| 13:56 |
erlehmann |
does that mean dynamic media sends the maps to all players? |
| 13:56 |
erlehmann |
._. |
| 13:57 |
erlehmann |
this is a privacy nightmare |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Considering that it uses the v1 API, OFC it does |
| 13:57 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> v2 has a to_player option, would that help? |
| 13:57 |
erlehmann |
yes |
| 13:57 |
erlehmann |
definitely |
| 13:58 |
erlehmann |
the problem is that with mcl_maps + amidst you can find any base unless the ground has been extensively modified |
| 13:58 |
erlehmann |
luatic btw https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=27763 |
| 13:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> heh |
| 13:59 |
erlehmann |
i have a lot more of those |
| 13:59 |
erlehmann |
not using a cheat client is not an obstacle for some players |
| 13:59 |
erlehmann |
if you ever encounter the player deviant, try to be friendly with them |
| 14:00 |
erlehmann |
they have some mental health issue that makes them insult ppl all the time, but are generally friendly otherwise |
| 14:00 |
erlehmann |
and know a lot of minetest glitches |
| 14:00 |
erlehmann |
and by insult i mean, the explanations sometimes contain a random “and fuck off”, just like ppl imagine tourette's is like (it isn't like that) |
| 14:00 |
erlehmann |
it's like tiny mood swings |
| 14:01 |
erlehmann |
so don't assume deviant is an asshole or sth |
| 14:01 |
erlehmann |
deviant explained to me that seeing some ingame things that are not legit makes them angry actually |
| 14:02 |
erlehmann |
like using a cheat client ^^ |
| 14:02 |
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| 14:03 |
erlehmann |
oh and i am writing this only bc the person is pretty open about their condition and it's better imo to know that instead of getting all confrontational to a person who apparently can not *not* do it. |
| 14:03 |
erlehmann |
also i have never met anyone who was better at glitching |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that's usually not texture related, but rather graphics-stack related |
| 14:21 |
erlehmann |
luatic what exactly? |
| 14:30 |
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| 15:24 |
kilbith |
someone is missing some IRLfriends: https://i.imgur.com/jW6MLls.png |
| 15:27 |
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| 15:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> I don't see how someone making 6 rather short posts on a forum means they are lonely, in fact you might be the one lacking some IRLfriends if anyone kilbith |
| 15:44 |
erlehmann |
oh, i am lonely IRL. most everyone i know is, because of the pandemic. |
| 15:45 |
erlehmann |
but i believe kilbith may not be accustomed to the thing that some people's activity comes in bursts. |
| 15:50 |
kilbith |
duct tape on the mouth, erlehguy |
| 15:51 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> spamming irc wasnt enough, seems there onto the forums now :/ |
| 15:51 |
rubenwardy |
honestly, 6 posts in a go is not a lot |
| 15:52 |
kilbith |
that's my point |
| 15:52 |
kilbith |
he confuses IRC/forums with a bar |
| 15:52 |
kilbith |
and github |
| 15:52 |
kilbith |
wasting everyone's time |
| 15:53 |
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| 15:54 |
erlehmann |
with a bar? |
| 15:55 |
erlehmann |
kilbith, have you even read my forum posts? half of those in the screenshot contain content that helps debugging the issue at hand. |
| 15:56 |
kilbith |
I stopped reading you to preserve my mental health |
| 15:56 |
erlehmann |
look how about you put me on ignore in your irc client and this is over right now? i can do the same thing for you! |
| 15:57 |
kilbith |
there always has been village idiots like you and paramat, they are just more audible on modern communication networks now |
| 15:58 |
erlehmann |
look, i have moderated an internet forum. while i have no idea what paramat did to upset you, i can guarantee that there are people with a worse signal to noise ratio out there. |
| 15:58 |
erlehmann |
some, for example, mainly spew insults. does that sound familiar to you? |
| 15:59 |
kilbith |
I'm just less hypocrite than everyone else, that's the point |
| 16:00 |
kilbith |
bbl |
| 16:02 |
erlehmann |
oh, i see: you confuse vile rhetoric with honesty. i can assure you that not everyone assumes ppl who make mistakes are total idiots though. |
| 16:02 |
erlehmann |
or people who do they do not agree with |
| 16:02 |
erlehmann |
in fact, most people do not go through life and think everyone is a total assclown. it might be on you. |
| 16:05 |
erlehmann |
and in that case, yes, it's honest to voice it. but from a standpoint of “please make this stop”, i suggest to be a bit more civil and focus on the issue. for example, i have learned – because v-rob explained it – that it makes little sense to argue for not changing UI features in minor releases, as the breakage is pretty limited. |
| 16:16 |
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| 17:34 |
mazes_83 |
thanks all about the new release |
| 17:36 |
mazes_83 |
new thing: can assign more keys to keymaps_slotN thanks to local irrlicht fork |
| 17:38 |
mazes_83 |
but still on french keyboard if I want to mimic the us 123456789, it works only for 1->&, 3->", 4->KEY_OEM_7 (wtf), 5-> (, 6->KEY_MINUS |
| 17:39 |
mazes_83 |
on our layout every other thing are not assignable to shortcuts |
| 17:39 |
mazes_83 |
in this key row !! |
| 17:40 |
mazes_83 |
in game HUD it works as a charm now hopefully |
| 17:41 |
mazes_83 |
I don't understand how joysticks id are found, but as soon as I find the good one, game is "playable" with joystick |
| 17:44 |
mazes_83 |
as soon as I open a HUD, I see wireframes on every rendered block |
| 17:44 |
mazes_83 |
linux, RX550, default kernel radeon driver |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> A GUI you mean |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (formspec) |
| 17:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> might be #9072 ? |
| 17:47 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/9072 -- Faces show as if in wireframe mode if anti-aliasing enabled |
| 17:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> LW has a similar graphics card (Radeon RX 570), so that seems to be the cause here |
| 17:53 |
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| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> oh yay, I have the exact same issue |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Sublayer plank> let me comment in the issue thread |
| 18:18 |
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MTDiscord |
<luatic> I can reproduce it too if I enable antialiasing :o |
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| 19:28 |
mazes_83 |
exactly same bug, I always use HUD for any element which is not the game itself, my bad, I should use this term more exactly |
| 19:29 |
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mazes_83 |
so R500 series provides extra-aliasing instead of anti-aliasing |
| 19:31 |
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