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IRC log for #minetest, 2024-04-23

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13:50 MTDiscord <redundantcc> Hey if checking for function definitions is considered bad practice, is there a good practice way a figuring out what version your mod is operating in
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14:03 rubenwardy Checking for the existence of functions is good practice for determining whether a feature is supported
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14:34 MTDiscord <redundantcc> Right but how do you determine whether the sun is upside down? And other things like that weird bug that messes with models, surely it would be best to expose the engine version number?
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15:12 lissobone redundantcc: The question whether the sun is upside down is actually a good question.
15:15 lissobone But I believe that checking for features can be done with 'minetest.has_feature(arg)' and the table 'minetest.features'.
15:16 lissobone For instance, the 'simple_skins' mod (line 113) has got a line that says "local is_54 = minetest.has_feature("direct_velocity_on_players")". Β Is that a good practice to check for versions that way?
15:16 lissobone I am assuming that this subroutine checks whether the engine version is 5.4.0.
15:28 MTDiscord <redundantcc> @lissobone Okay that's really good information, does 'minetest.has_feature(arg)' or Β 'minetest.features' check against mod defined globals or only engine defined functions?
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16:25 sfan5 minetest.has_feature checks against a list of strings contained in the engine
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16:34 ROllerozxa mods and games can add (and has added) their own feature strings into it
16:35 sfan5 i don't think that was ever supposed to be done πŸ€”
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16:44 ROllerozxa well, it's a thing now I suppose. :) I've seen szutilpack do it for checking the presence of various hotfixes being applied that are also present in some of warr's games such as `_hotfix_background_recompute` for recalculating lighting of mapblocks in the background
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17:03 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Change some profiler values to microseconds c8e4674 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/c8e46749a4d708ceab12cb4f59cb5298f9655197 (2024-04-23T17:03:35Z)
17:03 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Log delays introduced by SDL_PollEvent af27d97 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/af27d9700370b2be3eb0cd99ca868053164ad40a (2024-04-23T17:03:35Z)
17:03 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Fix Irrlicht log events not being passed through e7f6e7d https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e7f6e7d7b655a6265fa7dafc4da5ca5fffc069f9 (2024-04-23T17:03:35Z)
17:04 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Reduce needless copying of KeyPress e39e47b https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/e39e47b21fd94949ea68d3f8d210de0b3e6f3a0e (2024-04-23T17:03:35Z)
17:04 MinetestBot [git] (2 newer commits not shown)
17:06 MinetestBot [git] sfan5 -> minetest/minetest: Formalize OS support policy (#14556) 98fd5bd https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/98fd5bd45374a6497a635c1aae2489a990879905 (2024-04-23T17:03:58Z)
17:06 MinetestBot [git] JosiahWI -> minetest/minetest: Fix MSVC warning C4172 in ModifySafeMap::get (#14576) de8d80d https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/de8d80dee0042e15eda165f0612f83732107f166 (2024-04-23T17:04:26Z)
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18:20 swift110-mobile hey all
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18:58 sfan5 pro tip: instead of /time 6000 it is faster to type /time 6e4
19:39 Bombo make 6k work too, even shorter ;)
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20:01 Krock pro tip: have unified_inventory enabled, press i and press the sun icon. bonus: fancy sound
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21:29 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Thats a thing????
21:30 MTDiscord <wsor4035> for the irc peeps, the above is responding to > But I believe that checking for features can be done with 'minetest.has_feature(arg)' and the table 'minetest.features'.
21:42 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Why dont mods have explicit versioning systems?
21:42 MTDiscord <luatic> some mods do; are you asking why the engine doesn't enforce one?
21:43 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Yeah like why isnt there a way to declare a mod works for 5.7 and 5.8 etc in mod.conf and then give a warning
21:43 MTDiscord <luatic> ah that
21:44 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Itd mean that we wouldnt have an excuse to extend backwards compatibility
21:44 MTDiscord <luatic> what
21:44 MTDiscord <luatic> cdb has something like this
21:46 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> I dont have any examples but ive seen a lot of things left around or not changed so we dont break backwards compatibility
21:46 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Like the sound stuff from what i remember is pretty messy
21:46 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Actually
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21:47 MTDiscord <luatic> yes but mods advertising which versions they support doesn't make the issue go away
21:47 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Well, no, but itd help i think
21:47 MTDiscord <luatic> it would help indeed
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21:48 MTDiscord <luatic> but we still need backwards compatibility. we want people to be able to upgrade relatively seamlessly.
21:48 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> If we completely overhauled sound for example, the mod could add a system for both, and then move on. If the mod hasnt added explicit support for the version obviously it wont be in config and itll show an error
21:48 MTDiscord <luatic> that's just pushing the problem to modders
21:49 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Actually why dont we just make a new system entirely, remove the documentation and deprecate it
21:49 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Leave it around for a few versions l
21:49 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Probably would make more sense...
21:50 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Also pushing the problem to modders isnt a bad thing. To make engine improvements and changes old things need to break sometimes
21:50 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Thats my opinion
21:50 MTDiscord <luatic> sometimes we need to do this, yes, often we don't
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21:51 MTDiscord <luatic> doing this unnecessarily would (rightfully) drive modders away. i think we would then be no better than minecraft modding in this regard: with every new version, modders would have to make sure their mods still work.
21:52 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Do we have a clear list of API changes/removals?
21:52 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Like per update
21:52 MTDiscord <luatic> also, as for "things need to break sometimes", consider the concept of what i would call "weak backwards compatibility": yes, things may break, but only if you opt-in (globally, at a game level). so games will continue to work.
21:52 MTDiscord <luatic> there should be no removals if we're keeping backwards compat..
21:53 MTDiscord <luatic> but yes, for the next major version we should have such a list
21:53 MTDiscord <fatalisterror> Well eventually deprecated featurs like years old we should remove things....
21:56 MTDiscord <luatic> well, after like half a decade we could have a major release
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