Luanti logo

IRC log for #minetest, 2024-06-15

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:07 SFENCE joined #minetest
00:11 Can0xfBows_ joined #minetest
00:26 SFENCE joined #minetest
01:04 SFENCE joined #minetest
01:38 SFENCE joined #minetest
02:05 SFENCE joined #minetest
02:25 SFENCE joined #minetest
02:44 Mocraft joined #minetest
03:00 SFENCE joined #minetest
03:22 SFENCE joined #minetest
03:41 SFENCE joined #minetest
03:50 SFENCE joined #minetest
04:00 MTDiscord joined #minetest
04:05 gregon joined #minetest
04:07 SFENCE joined #minetest
04:25 SFENCE joined #minetest
04:37 tarsovbak joined #minetest
04:43 SFENCE joined #minetest
04:43 gregon joined #minetest
05:24 SFENCE joined #minetest
05:33 SFENCE joined #minetest
05:52 SFENCE joined #minetest
06:24 SFENCE joined #minetest
06:50 TomTom_ joined #minetest
06:51 SFENCE joined #minetest
07:02 SFENCE joined #minetest
07:06 jaca122 joined #minetest
07:11 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
07:15 Talkless joined #minetest
07:18 Lunatrius` joined #minetest
07:18 beanbrain joined #minetest
07:31 Glaedr joined #minetest
07:50 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
08:08 YuGiOhJCJ joined #minetest
08:09 mrkubax10 joined #minetest
08:13 mrkubax10 joined #minetest
08:20 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
08:57 Hanicef joined #minetest
09:05 SFENCE joined #minetest
09:31 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
09:42 gregon joined #minetest
09:45 tarsovbak joined #minetest
10:05 tarsovbak joined #minetest
10:06 gregon joined #minetest
10:06 SFENCE joined #minetest
11:00 Meli joined #minetest
11:10 boingman joined #minetest
11:11 ireallyhateirc joined #minetest
11:17 Meli-sama joined #minetest
11:22 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
11:48 jaca122 joined #minetest
11:49 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
12:12 tarsovbak joined #minetest
12:13 gregon joined #minetest
12:23 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
12:28 ireallyhateirc Are additions to the built-in lua vectors welcome? For example I made my own vector.ceil (that's missing) and vector.random
12:29 ireallyhateirc these aren't hard to make yourself but I guess it's better to spend your time on actually making games/mods rather than writing basic utilities
12:33 tarsovbak joined #minetest
12:34 gregon joined #minetest
12:41 MTDiscord <luatic> ireallyhateirc: if these abstractions are pretty much universally useful, i'd say they are welcome, yes. vector.ceil is just vector.apply(math.ceil) though, and vector.random has some potential for bikeshedding...
12:45 ireallyhateirc lua's math provides math.ceil so I guess it's only natural to expect vector.ceil
12:45 ireallyhateirc no matter how trivial the implementation
12:45 ireallyhateirc Here's my vector.random:
12:46 ireallyhateirc function vector.random(...)
12:46 ireallyhateirc return vector.new(math.random(...), math.random(...), math.random(...))
12:46 ireallyhateirc end
12:49 MTDiscord <luatic> I'd be tempted to just implement function vector.create(f, ...) return vector.new(f(...), f(...), f(...)) end instead
12:49 MTDiscord <luatic> then vector.random would be just vector.create(math.random)
12:50 ireallyhateirc yeah, that's more universal than vector.apply
12:50 MTDiscord <luatic> ireallyhateirc: it's different
12:51 MTDiscord <luatic> vector.apply takes an existing vector and applies a function to it, this function creates a vector given a function to call with the same arguments for each coordinate
12:51 ireallyhateirc yeah
12:52 gregon joined #minetest
12:53 tarsovbak joined #minetest
12:53 ireallyhateirc Just wonder if there's a better name than .create which is kind of ambiguous (similar to .new)
12:54 ireallyhateirc but I guess this shouldn't be a big problem if documented properly
12:54 ireallyhateirc vector.create_with_function would be more descriptive but also long
12:57 MTDiscord <luatic> ireallyhateirc: i didn't think too hard about the name, but bear in mind that the context will make it pretty clear that it takes a function - for example if you see vector.create(math.random)
12:59 ireallyhateirc yeah, it should be fine then
13:03 ireallyhateirc I'm also thinking about handling functions that return multiple values in vector.apply
13:04 Thelie joined #minetest
13:04 ireallyhateirc for example there's the math.modf and I wrote my own vector.modf
13:04 ireallyhateirc https://codeberg.org/lord_of_the_dumpster/perfect_city/src/commit/fccbfa19df1193b825c5b9db23bafe2b55dcc3e1/mods/pcity_mapgen/utils.lua#L185
13:05 ireallyhateirc this sounds a little dangerous though, because some functions can return values that are not numbers
13:05 ireallyhateirc it could probably also make functions that use vector.apply a little slower
13:13 Guest95 joined #minetest
13:23 Meli joined #minetest
13:25 tarsovbak joined #minetest
13:25 gregon joined #minetest
13:54 behalebabo joined #minetest
14:38 Trifton joined #minetest
14:45 silverwolf73828 joined #minetest
15:10 tarsovbak joined #minetest
15:14 gregon joined #minetest
16:10 gregon joined #minetest
16:14 tarsovbak joined #minetest
16:17 nekobit Hi, are there any useful methods for debugging mods/games?
16:18 nekobit Restarting the world over and over gets tedious, but i have thought about making a --go while loop which quickly reselects the world
16:22 ireallyhateirc depending on what you debug/test you may want a fresh world or the old world so I doubt you can make any "one fits all" solution
16:22 ireallyhateirc though I'd like to be proven wrong because it is indeed tedious
16:26 nekobit One of the greatest things about dynamic programming languages is that you can do dynamic things with it
16:34 bdju joined #minetest
16:35 fluxionary joined #minetest
16:39 ireallyhateirc fair
16:53 mrkubax10 joined #minetest
17:19 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
17:33 bdju joined #minetest
17:34 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
17:41 Talkless joined #minetest
17:47 gregon joined #minetest
18:12 m33 joined #minetest
18:14 imi joined #minetest
18:15 Norkle joined #minetest
18:15 Mocraft joined #minetest
18:16 sid0 joined #minetest
18:16 MTDiscord <luatic> nekobit: --world and --go together allows for a pretty fast workflow if your game starts up fast enough: up arrow, enter, test, exit, rinse and repeat
18:16 nekobit i have it set to a sh while loop
18:17 nekobit however live reloading would be very convenient
18:17 MTDiscord <luatic> for specific stuff, you could implement hot reloading, or use existing things like https://content.minetest.net/packages/Just_Visiting/formspec_editor/
18:25 SliverFlowCipher joined #minetest
18:28 nekobit Ta
18:31 Thelie joined #minetest
18:52 MTDiscord <wsor4035> you could use inotify to listen for save events, and restart a minetest process
18:56 Krock read an environment variable within the main menu and auto-join a specific world
18:57 Krock (overcomplicated solution for what's already implemented differently)
19:34 nekobit wsor4935: That's true
20:46 Verticen joined #minetest
20:54 illwieckz joined #minetest
22:15 cranez joined #minetest
22:33 panwolfram joined #minetest
23:05 Eragon joined #minetest
23:30 BluebirdGrey51 joined #minetest
23:32 BluebirdGrey51 Quick question, according to Lua docs I can transfer a VoxelManip into MT's async environment. Can I transfer it OUT? Example: huge tnt boom: on main thread, get voxelmanip, transfer to async. On async, compute all the tnt stuff, map changes, etc. Transfer to main thread. On main thread: apply voxelmanip to real map. Possible?
23:35 BluebirdGrey51 Other example: large fortress/dungeon generation
23:35 ireallyhateirc Haven't tried it, but api doc says this: minetest.handle_async(func, callback, ...):
23:35 ireallyhateirc "When func returns the callback is called (in the normal environment) with all of the return values as arguments."
23:35 MTDiscord <wsor4035> bluebird: you would probably want to use 5.9 async mapgen api
23:36 ireallyhateirc not sure if mapgen environment would work for stuff like TNT?
23:36 BluebirdGrey51 I'm using the 5.9 async mapgen already, but so far only for mapgenning new chunks. No idea how I could "rerun" it for tnt/fortress stuff?
23:37 ireallyhateirc we will have this in the future: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14659
23:38 ireallyhateirc but again, for ordinary asynch envs I guess you can use the callback from  minetest.handle_async
23:39 ireallyhateirc so I believe the callback just handles stuff returned by the function ran in the asynch env?
23:39 MTDiscord <wsor4035> you could also delete the area so it regenerates. assuming there is nothing of value there
23:39 BluebirdGrey51 Yes, about the callback is what I am wondering: would it be able to receive the voxelmanip after the async thread was done with it.
23:40 BluebirdGrey51 Area deletion is definitely not an option
23:40 ireallyhateirc if not the voxelmanip object, you can still pass a copy of the (possibly outdated) flat array
23:40 MTDiscord <wsor4035> minetest.handle_async(func, callback, ...) -> When func returns the callback is called (in the normal environment) with all of the return values as arguments.
23:40 MTDiscord <wsor4035> read the docs?
23:41 ireallyhateirc wsor4035, I just quoted this above
23:41 BluebirdGrey51 Yes, but the docs also talk about serialization for parameters passed IN. If parameters passed out are also serialized, I don't know what this would do to the voxelmanip. I guess I could code up a test ...
23:43 ireallyhateirc keep in mind that VM data can get outdated quickly
23:43 ireallyhateirc so you probably need to calculate a diff
23:44 ireallyhateirc or trust the data as is and hope you won't remove stuff players just did lol
23:45 ireallyhateirc is your TNT example a real one? What's the average time needed for your VM operation?
23:45 BluebirdGrey51 the tnt example is just an example, my real usecase is fortress generation (these can get up to 200 nodes in length/width).
23:46 BluebirdGrey51 The fortresses are only supposed to generate at mapgen time, but for obvious reasons I can't do it on the mapgen thread.
23:46 BluebirdGrey51 The mapchunks are too small.
23:46 BluebirdGrey51 Though, even with TNT, a large explosion on my server, in the right location, can lag for up to 5 seconds.
23:46 ireallyhateirc BluebirdGrey51, this shouldn't be a problem
23:46 MTDiscord <wsor4035> or just break up your structure across chunks? see other mods for this
23:47 ireallyhateirc mapgen does 1 mapchunk + mapblock margin
23:47 ireallyhateirc so if you divide your structure into smaller parts that fit inside, you should be safe
23:48 ireallyhateirc alternatively you can write some wicked overgeneration code like I did for my road generation in my Perfect City game
23:49 BluebirdGrey51 If I understand rightly how it works, overgeneration is not possible on the mapgen thread, only on the main thread?
23:49 BluebirdGrey51 At least IIRC the doc had some kind of warning. ..
23:50 BluebirdGrey51 (I mean, overgeneration beyond the usual overgenerate margin)
23:51 ireallyhateirc your fortress thing - is it a schematic or?
23:52 BluebirdGrey51 it's a collection of schematics, which get combined together to form a fortress.
23:53 book` joined #minetest
23:53 ireallyhateirc if you divide the structure into pieces no bigger than a mapchunk and align the structure to the mapchunk grid, they you don't need overgeneration
23:53 BluebirdGrey51 Generating it is basically 2 steps: 1) design the fortress, and create a huge table with all the layout info. 2) apply all the schematics to the voxelmanip using the data.
23:54 BluebirdGrey51 Step 1 uses a pseudo random algorithm.
23:54 ireallyhateirc you can do your own overgeneration if you get adjacent mapchunks and spawn the structure also in the adjacent chunks
23:56 ireallyhateirc so you need a list of mapchunks that contain your module/prefab (for example a cube)
23:56 ireallyhateirc then you need the absolute position where the module is placed
23:56 ireallyhateirc and then you simply place the structure in the chunks
23:58 ireallyhateirc Do you understand this or do you want me to draw it for you in GIMP?
23:58 BluebirdGrey51 So, it sounds like my step 1 (the pseudo random algorithm) would need to use a seed number to produce exact results from one mapchunk to the next.
23:58 ireallyhateirc yes, you need to make it reproducible
23:59 BluebirdGrey51 Gotcha.
23:59 ireallyhateirc use a randomseed that doesn't depend on blockseed or whatever the thing is
23:59 ireallyhateirc I solved a similar problem here: https://codeberg.org/lord_of_the_dumpster/perfect_city/src/branch/master/mods/pcity_mapgen
23:59 ireallyhateirc though it's a big blob of code that's not yet documented well

| Channels | #minetest index | Today | | Google Search | Plaintext