| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:40 |
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| 06:13 |
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| 08:58 |
sfan5 |
major documentation bug: our "Compiling on GNU/Linux" section includes instructions for Alpine, which isn't GNU/Linux |
| 09:18 |
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| 09:21 |
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| 09:23 |
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| 09:44 |
celeron55 |
i'd say it's close enough. they haven't even gotten rid of GCC as their default compiler, and musl and busybox mostly mimick GNU anyway |
| 09:52 |
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| 10:40 |
red-001 |
sfan5: I would consider Android 5 ancient, maybe anything below 7.1.2 is ancient not merely old |
| 10:42 |
red-001 |
but maybe should move that up to 6, since that's not getting google service updates anymore it seems |
| 10:43 |
red-001 |
and clearly the documentation needs to be changed to say GNU/LInux/ulibc/Linux/ |
| 10:43 |
sfan5 |
whether google play services is up-to-date isn't really our concern |
| 10:51 |
sfan5 |
if our app wasn't suspended I could tell you how many users/active installations on very old android we have |
| 10:53 |
red-001 |
I can't imagine it runs all that well on most of those surely, quite rude of google to cutoff the metadata feed just because they took down the app |
| 10:55 |
sfan5 |
oh actually https://kitsunemimi.pw/tmp/serverlist_stats_2025-11-06.txt |
| 10:55 |
sfan5 |
careful estimate <2% of users on older than Android 7 |
| 10:59 |
celeron55 |
chinese phones and tablets used to run older androids even though they were fairly powerful. and they don't self destruct - as long as you don't drop them on a rock, they still work |
| 11:00 |
red-001 |
not 5 or 6 really, they might run 10 or something like that |
| 11:00 |
red-001 |
seems there's still a fair few on 6 |
| 11:00 |
red-001 |
and not really anyone on 5 |
| 11:00 |
celeron55 |
more like android 8 |
| 11:00 |
celeron55 |
think of huawei honor 8 or something like that |
| 11:01 |
red-001 |
" I would consider Android 5 ancient, maybe anything below 7.1.2 is ancient not merely old" |
| 11:01 |
red-001 |
hence perhaps I would consider Android 8 to be merely old |
| 11:01 |
celeron55 |
maybe. altough that phone was originally released with android 6 |
| 11:02 |
red-001 |
if it got upgraded to 9 or 10 that would for me put it into unsupported but not actually that old category, like Windows 10 versions |
| 11:03 |
red-001 |
sfan5: more Windows 7 users than I expected, I guess better avoid breaking compatibility for them |
| 11:04 |
celeron55 |
of course one chan shout "think of cybersecurity" but that's not necessarily realism for a poor family with many kids. it works fine as a device to run luanti and for making phone calls, and will do that essentially forver as it supports LTE |
| 11:04 |
celeron55 |
forever* |
| 11:04 |
celeron55 |
can* |
| 11:04 |
celeron55 |
(i can't type today) |
| 11:05 |
celeron55 |
(or actually, spell) |
| 11:05 |
red-001 |
well you didn't have to admit the second one, I was perfectly willing to believe you spelled the words perfectly and merely typed them wrong |
| 11:06 |
red-001 |
eventually the batteries will fail |
| 11:07 |
red-001 |
or the screen will get cracked or moisture ingress or what have you |
| 11:07 |
celeron55 |
that's true. the replacement interval is essentially the point where buying a more recent used device is cheaper than buying a battery or screen for the old one |
| 11:07 |
red-001 |
actual flash memory failure is a big one too, had a otherwise perfectly mangled phone fail like that, was very sad |
| 11:08 |
celeron55 |
altough, the screen doesn't break on its own, so it only comes down to the battery |
| 11:08 |
red-001 |
and flash does fail on its own |
| 11:08 |
red-001 |
*more or less on its own |
| 11:09 |
red-001 |
still have the failed mainboard somewhere, was super annoying cause I got the higher end model of that phone with 128gb and never even used up all the storage |
| 11:09 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> lots of those old phones used to have replacaeble batteries too, was one of the best things about them, my phone as late as 2016 had one |
| 11:10 |
celeron55 |
anyway, it would be useful to define what's the age of android devices that we think can be dropped. i think going above 10 years probably isn't necessary. the honor 8 was released in 2016 but that's only start of production. they were probably produced for 2 to 3 years |
| 11:11 |
celeron55 |
this means dropping android <=6 would probably be reasonable by now. so i agree with red-001 |
| 11:11 |
red-001 |
figured out it was flash when I was trying to understand why the EDL flash mode didn't work, eventually read the error log instead of just assuming it was on me and turns out it couldn't bootstrap the UFS |
| 11:12 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> ive missed the start of the conversation, but i assume there's something gained by dropping android <6 ? |
| 11:12 |
red-001 |
I suppose it could have been physical failure, I didn't try reballing the BGA chip on there, don't have the tools to do it and my data wasn't worth that much |
| 11:12 |
red-001 |
celeron55: not even saying to drop it, more of an observation, if we run into issues with adding a new feature however and it's cause of support for android <= 6, I think can drop it then |
| 11:13 |
celeron55 |
i don't think there's any immediate gain for us, so there's no need to drop right now |
| 11:13 |
celeron55 |
but it's good to keep the threshold in mind if things come up |
| 11:14 |
red-001 |
like the engine I believe doesn't support Windows XP or what have you I believe, Android 5.0 feels about as obsolete as XP |
| 11:15 |
red-001 |
contrast that with windows 10 which is technically EoL but still widely used |
| 11:15 |
celeron55 |
it's the same thing as with C++ versions. once support in the field is met by our definition, then a developer can propose a version requirement bump |
| 11:15 |
red-001 |
or even 7 |
| 11:15 |
celeron55 |
(given that it gives some immediate benefit) |
| 11:16 |
red-001 |
https://github.com/MultiCraft/MultiCraft/commit/f11b304d6fda7671cb54af4a51b66e022b741adf what is going on in MultiCraft world |
| 11:16 |
red-001 |
oh |
| 11:16 |
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| 11:16 |
red-001 |
quickly Matrix bridge is down everyone say why you like IRC better |
| 11:16 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> It has more text |
| 11:16 |
red-001 |
"core.change_password() CSM API" is crazy work |
| 11:17 |
red-001 |
I really want to know what that API is for |
| 11:28 |
red-001 |
I'm surprised that for jsoncpp you can't just use string view and let it construct a std::string on older versions |
| 11:30 |
[MatrxMT] |
<the4spaceconstants> matrix bridge still saw that |
| 11:37 |
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| 11:38 |
red-001 |
oh right explicit constructor |
| 11:49 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> there's basically no reason to drop old android versions unless the NDK forces us to |
| 11:50 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> the upcoming NDK r30 LTS still supports android 5, but I think the next one might bump it up to android 6 |
| 14:17 |
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| 14:29 |
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| 15:44 |
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| 16:04 |
sfan5 |
13:03 <red-001> sfan5: more Windows 7 users than I expected, I guess better avoid breaking compatibility for them |
| 16:04 |
sfan5 |
i think windows 7 users are already using "extension packs" (I made this name up) to patch in newer functions these days |
| 16:05 |
sfan5 |
or basically no reasonable apps would still work |
| 16:16 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> "service packs"? |
| 16:17 |
sfan5 |
no those are from microsoft |
| 16:17 |
sfan5 |
but I have heard of community-made stuff that allows you to run software targeting w10 on w7 |
| 16:19 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ah |
| 16:21 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> windows xp community does the same, but a bit more insane |
| 16:25 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> I'm pretty sure luanti still works on a fully up to date version of windows 7, with UCRT and network security stack updates |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> yeah |
| 16:46 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747163566800633906/1543300812363530382/image.png?ex=6a945e62&is=6a930ce2&hm=05ac486d522ff65f7629210e36fbdb4daba7c41b000caff5272aa7973e41fed2& |
| 16:47 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> obviously I know it's not officially supported by luanti but libc++ still supports windows 7+ so there should be no reason it shouldn't work unless that begins to change |
| 18:25 |
sfan5 |
merging #17425, #17514 soon |
| 18:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/17425 -- Lua API: Improve ItemStack handling by SmallJoker |
| 18:25 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/17514 -- [no sq] Update jsoncpp to 1.9.8 + fixes by sfan5 |
| 18:37 |
sfan5 |
done |
| 18:41 |
sfan5 |
will push something to fix the prometheus-cpp build failure too |
| 18:57 |
sfan5 |
>install libcivetweb-dev |
| 18:58 |
sfan5 |
>project refuses to configure because /usr/bin/civetweb is missing |
| 18:58 |
sfan5 |
>install main package too |
| 18:58 |
sfan5 |
>random linker errors |
| 18:58 |
sfan5 |
guess not |
| 19:03 |
sfan5 |
oh cool the docker image has a different solution |
| 19:03 |
sfan5 |
someone else can fix it |
| 21:28 |
red-001 |
#17515 uses a plugin to fetch the CA certs now |
| 21:28 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/17515 -- Add CA bundle for TLS verification. by red-001 |
| 21:29 |
red-001 |
no point caching this in tree if the build needs internet access anyway |
| 22:33 |
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