| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 04:00 |
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| 07:54 |
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| 08:47 |
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| 09:04 |
Krock |
17389 causes me to cancel mod configuration way too often. Muscle memory dies hard. |
| 09:07 |
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| 09:13 |
Farooq |
I'm not sure where to bring this up. But I think we need a CoC. I've seen some behaviors which don't encourage a community to build and develop together. Where should I open an issue? |
| 09:15 |
MTDiscord |
<ggepic64> farooq: ... "CoC" ? |
| 09:15 |
Krock |
Code of Conduct. I thought we already have something like that. |
| 09:15 |
Farooq |
Code of Conduct. Some enforced guildelines about how people deal with each other |
| 09:15 |
Farooq |
Krock, we do? |
| 09:17 |
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| 09:18 |
Krock |
hmm only found this so far https://docs.luanti.org/about/irc/#rules |
| 09:20 |
Farooq |
That's not a CoC. Also when we have a CoC, we also need a team to enforce it |
| 09:21 |
Farooq |
Is the discussion on topic for this room? |
| 09:21 |
Krock |
who is that team? |
| 09:21 |
Krock |
and what use does it have to enforce rules on volunteers? |
| 09:28 |
Farooq |
A team must be chosen |
| 09:28 |
Farooq |
you don't know what is purpose of a CoC? |
| 09:29 |
Farooq |
or I don't get your question |
| 09:32 |
Krock |
I know what it means. I just see no use in it when you could as well apply Wheaton's Law |
| 10:09 |
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| 10:16 |
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| 11:12 |
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| 12:20 |
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| 12:42 |
rubenwardy |
yeah I support getting a CoC, it's in our org plans |
| 12:44 |
Farooq |
Krock, Wheaton's Law? There are 9999 ways to interpret it. Including literally. I'm gonna curse you the worst curse, then argue it doesn't count. Or that I take the law literally. |
| 12:44 |
Farooq |
Unless you want to to include explainations, on examples and so on. In that case you are writing a CoC |
| 12:45 |
Krock |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/10386 |
| 12:45 |
rubenwardy |
that is 6 years old |
| 12:46 |
Krock |
has anything changed since then? Luanti is much older and has IMO worked well 99% at the time (1% being the flamewars here, years ago) |
| 12:47 |
Farooq |
Do you really want me to dig out the cases in which CoC could have helped? |
| 12:47 |
rubenwardy |
Well I think a CoC would have been useful 6 years ago |
| 12:48 |
Farooq |
rubenwardy, same here |
| 12:48 |
Farooq |
Krock, if you haven't seen it, it doesn't mean it is not there. You are a dev whom everyone respect. So naturally, you have a low chance of being shot at |
| 12:49 |
rubenwardy |
I would like to see a base code of conduct (can call it "rules" if it makes you feel better) that applies to the entire Luanti community, which can then be extended/overridden/enforced by each platform |
| 12:49 |
Farooq |
Also IMO, CoC is not just about not shooting people but also welcoming them and forming a warm community |
| 12:49 |
rubenwardy |
there's been some work on a draft based ont he discord/matrix rules |
| 12:50 |
Farooq |
rubenwardy, I haven't got much of a say in this. But I would simply steal some other project's CoC :P |
| 12:50 |
Farooq |
Maybe with a lil change |
| 12:52 |
rubenwardy |
Maybe. I think the most important part is the application and the ethos rather than just copying an existing CoC |
| 12:55 |
Farooq |
Do I open an issue or you will? |
| 12:56 |
rubenwardy |
I think it's something for our internal discussion board first rather than the engine tracker |
| 12:57 |
Farooq |
okie dokie |
| 12:58 |
Farooq |
looking forward to it then |
| 13:23 |
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| 13:26 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> couldn't you just modify the forum rules or something? |
| 13:33 |
rubenwardy |
I don't think the forum rules make a good base |
| 14:39 |
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| 15:14 |
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| 17:19 |
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| 20:00 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> My two cents is, we have a code of conduct in VL and I don't think it has ever helped in any way. |
| 20:03 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Technically, there are two specific things in a code of conduct: code of conduct is something any contributor agrees to and pledges by committing to a repository that contains it, and also code of conduct technically describes who is responsible for enforcing it. |
| 20:04 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> In practice, hardly anybody reads it, because it is usually a generic "be respectful" pledge (mentioning various groups of people you should be respectful to), and rules are always enforced by those in power. |
| 20:07 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> If someone claims code of conduct is important and we need it, I'd say such a person (eg. Farooq) should provide examples of situations that have happened eg. this year and would have been somehow better if there was a code of conduct. Such a document would have to respond to specific needs. Making it in abstraction is the best way to make a code that changes nothing. |
| 20:08 |
sfan5 |
a CoC is only useful if you have someone to enforce it in a standardized and fair way |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> That too |
| 20:10 |
rubenwardy |
I ddi say this - the contents of the CoC matter less than how it is enforced |
| 20:11 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Also, for example we have the following clause in our rules for VL discord and matrix: > If you see something against the rules or something that makes you feel unsafe, let staff know by sending a direct message to a staff member that is currently online. We want this server to be a welcoming space! Guess how many people we had asking for help since I took over 3 years ago (don't know about before)? Zero |
| 20:13 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Sure, there were spammers and similar, which were handled more by common sense than by rules after a staff member saw it (after getting pinged in some cases) |
| 20:13 |
rubenwardy |
We already have rules. This change is about filling in the cracks (ie: GitHub has no rules) and establishing better practices for handling this stuff |
| 20:13 |
rubenwardy |
A code of conduct is just rules for community behaviour |
| 20:13 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> Yeah, and we have a code of conduct on the repo and we never had to invoke it |
| 20:14 |
MTDiscord |
<herowl> I mean, I'm not even against, but I'd like to understand why to people want it exactly |
| 21:14 |
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| 22:35 |
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| 23:45 |
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