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repetitivestrain |
Krock: crash has disappeared, thanks |
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[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> Please vote on what, if anything, the default inventory key should be redefined to https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=446934#p446934 |
| 11:04 |
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| 11:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> luanti-org/luanti: Mapgen: Correct border block criteria (#16524) dd3530d https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/dd3530dc799bff084bf8ff3ca1367d858545e7e1 (2025-09-29T11:21:30Z) |
| 11:23 |
MinetestBot |
[git] fetsorn -> luanti-org/luanti: Update comments referring to obsolete TOCLIENT_INIT (#16522) e3ec044 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/e3ec044ed02dbdf5fd7b92cb474f32cdcbcb9d35 (2025-09-29T11:21:52Z) |
| 11:26 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> luanti-org/luanti: Android: Update to SDK 35 (#16513) 8f98b4f https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/8f98b4f24347e159e18513c32321b93fdbcf1bda (2025-09-29T11:25:23Z) |
| 11:26 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> luanti-org/luanti: Update builtin locale (#16512) 274d8a7 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/274d8a7c657a7a0bb781bcbc187098b144266c95 (2025-09-29T11:25:42Z) |
| 11:50 |
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| 11:50 |
erle |
what bug does the “Mapgen: Correct border block criteria” patch by SmallJoker address? the commit description is ass, it only claims that it addresses “a regression” |
| 11:51 |
erle |
is it maybe #16516? |
| 11:51 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16516 -- Suspected lighting regression |
| 11:53 |
sfan5 |
why "maybe"? is is linked in the PR description |
| 12:54 |
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| 13:58 |
erle |
because no one thought it necessary to write it down i guess? given the amount of thought that goes into bugfixes like that i really don't understand why people like to make vague commit messages or PR descriptions like “this fixes some regression from #whatever” or “fix performance issues” or so. my personal assumption is that they do not care about maintenance and legibility the way i do and do not account for “project is moved to a differen |
| 13:58 |
erle |
t hoster” even if it happened in the past. |
| 13:59 |
erle |
i just wanted to check on that thing since it touches the map border and the majority of ideas people (even coredevs) have about changing what happens at the map border introduces subtle bugs. |
| 13:59 |
sfan5 |
it does not touch the map border |
| 14:00 |
erle |
and that's why i wanted to see which issue is fixed here. |
| 14:00 |
erle |
i had same problem at work |
| 14:01 |
erle |
people write commit messages like “fix bug #whatever” and then 5 years later no one knows what that even meant |
| 14:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> most of those never have anything written under the top line either |
| 14:01 |
erle |
but it is a decision for project maintainers to decide on commit messages hygiene and i am not one of them |
| 14:01 |
erle |
thus, i ask. i got my answer. thanks! |
| 14:02 |
erle |
i think cora sometimes rewrites commit messages on projects when contributors deliver the solution, but not the description. i do so myself too. |
| 14:03 |
sfan5 |
it is pretty clear that moving the git host would include preserving the old issues and PRs for reference purposes |
| 14:03 |
erle |
as i said before: given the amount of brain power that goes into finding solutions, idk why some people love to write vague commit messages. do you have an idea? |
| 14:05 |
sfan5 |
time and effort |
| 14:05 |
erle |
and by “vague” i mean “i can not know what this is about from ‘git log’” |
| 14:05 |
erle |
yeah, but the time on the fix has been spent and the effort to understand the issue also |
| 14:05 |
erle |
is it simply difficult for people to put it into words maybe? |
| 14:06 |
sfan5 |
what I was trying to say is that it is additional time and effort that people don't want to spend |
| 14:07 |
erle |
well, the time and effort needs to be spent everywhere the stuff is read then i guess. and commit messages are more often read than wrote. |
| 14:07 |
erle |
a tradeoff, i guess. one i do not condone, but others do. |
| 14:07 |
luatic |
It is completely acceptable when a commit references a discussion in an issue tracker that has all the relevant details. |
| 14:08 |
erle |
luatic as i said: “others do” |
| 14:08 |
luatic |
I'm not convinced that commit details are read often enough for that indirection to be a problem |
| 14:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> maybe my workflow isn't very good, but my main way of inspecting history is grepping the output of git log and reading the commit messages in full |
| 14:09 |
erle |
for me too |
| 14:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> there's a reason github autofills the PR form with commit message contents |
| 14:09 |
erle |
luatic, you are seeing the same tradeoff and simply saying it is a problem for future devs when the issue comes up, not present devs when the issue is at hand. |
| 14:10 |
erle |
what i see though is context loss. future work is rare, but a lot harder. because it is not done by the person who fixes the issue at present time. |
| 14:10 |
erle |
so you see “Fix crash” and then have to dig. if you are lucky you have an issue tracker! |
| 14:12 |
erle |
luatic i have seen the tradeoff go both ways btw, mostly in relation to “can we use git bisect and expect success figuring out the issue with that alone?” |
| 14:13 |
repetitivestrain |
erle: it's #16516 |
| 14:13 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16516 -- Suspected lighting regression |
| 14:13 |
erle |
at my previous workplace i noticed that embedded developers would have very good commit hygiene. small commits, good descriptions of what was fixed. mobile developers had not. |
| 14:14 |
erle |
it turned out that those developers who believed that it would help them with debugging issues later would do small commits and clear descriptions and those who believed it would not, would do giant commits and have poor descriptions. |
| 14:14 |
erle |
both were a self-fulfilling prophecy |
| 14:15 |
erle |
but one of the mobile developers ultimately explained to me why they chose that side and not the others: there was so much code churn, imposed by others (like new version of some vendor library breaking things), that they rarely even had bugs where git bisect and reading commit messages would help. |
| 14:16 |
erle |
IIRC it did convince many on one side though that git bisect was useful in every case and many on the other that git bisect was useless in every case. |
| 14:16 |
erle |
funny |
| 14:18 |
erle |
of course i guess most of you were never asked to fix a legacy project with commit messages like “fuck yeah it works now” |
| 14:21 |
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| 14:45 |
crazylad |
hi |
| 14:45 |
crazylad |
wait- wrong one |
| 14:56 |
mrcheese |
crazylad: ... |
| 14:59 |
crazylad |
I really like the idea proposed in issue #16528 - in fact, I've made a small mod as a workaround that adds a /first-login command |
| 14:59 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16528 -- Expose player creation_date to Lua; /first-login |
| 15:02 |
crazylad |
I made a small Python script to read players' names and their creation_dates and organize them in a JSON file - however this adds alot of overhead probably for servers with a large playerbase |
| 15:03 |
erle |
crazylad how do you know the player creation date is indeed the first login though? |
| 15:03 |
erle |
crazylad players might be “created”, but not fully provisioned. |
| 15:04 |
crazylad |
oh interesting - I haven't used it in a server, just my singleplayer testing, but it's a nice concept |
| 15:04 |
mrcheese |
:P |
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| 17:53 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> luanti-org/luanti: Server: Fix Server::Send exception caused by leaving players 499f228 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/499f2284bdfb702f68d200dc792720e4047da8e2 (2025-09-29T17:23:43Z) |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:26 |
Krock |
Lua trivia: instead of separating table fields with a comma, you may also use a semicolon |
| 18:51 |
* SwissalpS |
wonders how that was thought of as a useful feature |
| 18:53 |
SwissalpS |
having single and double quotes interchangeable (in pairs) makes a lot more sense to me |
| 18:57 |
erle |
makes little sense to me. i use the rc shell, which has only one way of quoting things. |
| 18:58 |
SwissalpS |
local s1 = "I can't do that"; local s2 = 'He said: "I can do that" and then he left' |
| 18:59 |
SwissalpS |
no escaping needed |
| 18:59 |
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| 19:13 |
erle |
SwissalpS if you have one single quote, the escape rule can simply be: “if you want to have the quoted character inside a string, double it” |
| 19:13 |
erle |
(this is how it is in rc shell) |
| 19:14 |
erle |
parsing is way easier that way for both humans and computers, you *always* look for a single quote to start/end a quoted context |
| 19:14 |
erle |
with multiple ways to quote, you need to remember which type of quote at the very least |
| 19:16 |
identity |
but then to have a string with three single quote characters you would do '''''''' which is, uh |
| 19:16 |
identity |
to be fair, it is a fairly contrived example |
| 19:17 |
identity |
a fairly fair contrived example… |
| 19:18 |
erle |
identity you can of course make the quoting rule something else. but that means you need to match more than one character. |
| 19:18 |
SwissalpS |
yeah, I grant you that parsing is simpler |
| 19:18 |
erle |
i have an attention deficit. holding more context in my head is much more straining than for normies. |
| 19:18 |
erle |
so i recognize “easier parsing” much more, because it is less straining |
| 19:20 |
erle |
given that inside a quoted context you only need to divide the amount of quotes by 2, the “contrived example” is very easy to read. you have a single quote at the start, a single quote at the end, divide the escaped single quotes in the middle by two. |
| 19:21 |
erle |
usually it will be more like s1='I can''t do that' though |
| 19:21 |
identity |
it looks really wrong with proportional fonts, though… |
| 19:21 |
erle |
yeah, it's *ugly* |
| 19:22 |
erle |
but then, stuff like -> in C++ instead of → is ugly too and people use that all the time |
| 19:22 |
erle |
or ** instead of ^ in python |
| 19:22 |
erle |
i'd rather see x² in source code than x**2 but who am i to have an opinion … |
| 19:26 |
erle |
identity same thing with postfix notation btw, less things to keep in mind. 2 + 2 requires more context than 2 2 + |
| 19:26 |
erle |
calculations i often do in dc(1) for that reason |
| 19:31 |
identity |
PEMDAS is hell, i do most of my programming in languages that would express 2 + 3² without the need for operator precedence, either as (+ 2 (expt 3 2)) for Lisps or 2+3⋆2 for APL&co. (which are usually right-to-left) |
| 19:32 |
identity |
every time i read “learn operator precedence, do not overuse parentheses” in style guides for c-like languages i groan |
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