| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:40 |
Sheriff_U3 |
It's interesting how many different things reference luanti pull request #1 |
| 00:40 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/1 -- GlowStone code by anonymousAwesome |
| 00:42 |
cheapie |
I've never understood why naturally-occuring glowstone is something people keep wanting to add every so often |
| 00:42 |
cheapie |
Not just that PR but it's an idea that keeps showing up in mods every so often |
| 00:43 |
Sheriff_U3 |
hmm I wonder why... |
| 00:43 |
cheapie |
Also wow, that glowstone texture sucks... but I guess the textures all did back then |
| 01:18 |
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| 01:20 |
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| 01:31 |
Menchers |
<3 programmer art |
| 01:32 |
Menchers |
do you need more graphics skills than filling in a solid background and putting a gaussian noise filter over it :D |
| 01:33 |
Sheriff_U3 |
not if your a programmer :D |
| 01:33 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Leave it to the graphics artists |
| 01:37 |
Sheriff_U3 |
What license is known as "Intel"?! I've got a script that prints out the different licenses declared by mods on ContentDB, it claims that there is one mod that is using a license called Intel |
| 01:44 |
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| 01:48 |
rubenwardy |
https://spdx.org/licenses/Intel.html |
| 01:48 |
rubenwardy |
ContentDB just uses SPDX licenses |
| 01:50 |
Sheriff_U3 |
thx |
| 01:51 |
rubenwardy |
also a mistake, as the repo says MIT |
| 01:52 |
Sheriff_U3 |
lol |
| 01:55 |
rubenwardy |
Likely doesn't matter anyway as the code looks AI generated |
| 02:01 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Some interesting AI disclosure stats from the same script: ContentDB mods AI disclosure: NONE: 1389/84%, GENERATED: 135/8%, ASSISTED: 129/8% |
| 02:04 |
red-001 |
lol what's the difference between Generated and Assisted |
| 02:05 |
red-001 |
is it like how you feel about it |
| 02:05 |
user333_ |
what script are you using to get these stats? |
| 02:05 |
cheapie |
I'm under the impression that "assisted" is like using an LLM for fancy autocomplete and stuff, while "generated" is more like "hey ChatGPT, write me a Luanti mod" |
| 02:05 |
red-001 |
potato tomato |
| 02:06 |
cheapie |
The ones labeled "generated" sure do seem to suck a whole lot harder than the "assisted" ones |
| 02:06 |
red-001 |
but I guess the AI use policy is kinda based around the assumption that's a big difference so fair enough I suppose |
| 02:06 |
red-001 |
I feel the suckiness factor might come down more to whatever someone is willing to call their mod AI generated |
| 02:07 |
red-001 |
feel like you will avoid admitting that if the mod is at all good or you care at all or you aren't going full future vibe coding billionaire mode on this |
| 02:07 |
Sheriff_U3 |
user333_: A modified version of one I found on the Luanti discord |
| 02:08 |
user333_ |
ah |
| 02:08 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Had to updated for the current ContentDb api and set it up to use the daily backups |
| 02:08 |
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| 02:09 |
cheapie |
red-001: My most-"helpful"-rated review is actually this one on a mod that's...... fairly typical of the "generated" ones, actually: https://content.luanti.org/threads/14865/ |
| 02:10 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I'll release it once I finish it, when ever that ends up being... |
| 02:10 |
user333_ |
speaking of contentdb, (a) is it easy, or at least possible, to host an instance without docker? and (b), can you get a copy of all games/mods/textures on it for your own instance? |
| 02:11 |
red-001 |
user333_: why don't you want to use docker? |
| 02:11 |
user333_ |
i don't like it |
| 02:11 |
red-001 |
how I feel about Claude |
| 02:11 |
red-001 |
eh |
| 02:11 |
red-001 |
it should be pretty easy |
| 02:12 |
red-001 |
as in not more difficult than setting up software used to be |
| 02:12 |
user333_ |
docker is essentially a chroot anyway, should be easy |
| 02:12 |
red-001 |
so like difficult enough |
| 02:13 |
red-001 |
yeah I saw a guide the other day for how to build a basic container using namespaces and all that in like <1000 lines so if you really don't like docker I guess can always roll your own |
| 02:13 |
red-001 |
probably every big company has their own internal container system that's like docker but not docker |
| 02:13 |
user333_ |
i wrote my own service manager thingy that i use on my servers but not docker |
| 02:14 |
user333_ |
it just runs them as an unprivileged user for sandboxing |
| 02:14 |
red-001 |
I mean like not to be rude here but I don't imagine anyone else set it up without docker, I think you kinda need to just try that yourself |
| 02:15 |
red-001 |
not really sure what difficulty scaling information anyone could give you that would be of any use |
| 02:15 |
user333_ |
i'l figure it out |
| 02:15 |
red-001 |
either you find it hard or you find it easy |
| 02:15 |
red-001 |
for backups I don't think they include the actual mod contents? |
| 02:15 |
red-001 |
I was under the impression it's just the metadata |
| 02:16 |
Sheriff_U3 |
red-001: you are correct |
| 02:16 |
red-001 |
and you would need to setup CDB to operate in I guess forwarding mode as a cache if you want to use that |
| 02:17 |
user333_ |
contentdb but distributed like most package manager repos would be interesting, and probably faster |
| 02:18 |
red-001 |
fast code for something relating to Luanti? |
| 02:18 |
red-001 |
I don't think most package managers are distributed |
| 02:18 |
red-001 |
well Windows is |
| 02:19 |
user333_ |
i meant like mirrors that they can pull from |
| 02:19 |
red-001 |
and it got hatred for that for some reason cause even when MSFT doesn't do something evil they get hatred for it (seems sometimes they mostly get hatred when they don't do something evil tbh, cause actual evil things are too political for gamers to care about) |
| 02:19 |
red-001 |
ah yeah I mean |
| 02:20 |
red-001 |
that kinda depends on someone being willing to host a mirror |
| 02:20 |
red-001 |
I haven't found CDB to be slow |
| 02:20 |
user333_ |
i have found it to be unreliable at times |
| 02:20 |
red-001 |
the info fetch or the package download path? |
| 02:21 |
user333_ |
info fetch i believe, maybe both |
| 02:21 |
red-001 |
I said before info fetch could use with pagination so we aren't doing the entire package database in one request |
| 02:21 |
red-001 |
at least on initial setup |
| 02:22 |
red-001 |
idk how package download is routed |
| 02:22 |
red-001 |
that's static I suppose so might be getting better pref from that? |
| 02:23 |
red-001 |
then again I would imagine info is cached to some degree |
| 02:24 |
red-001 |
#2 crazy that never got implemented in Minetest tbh |
| 02:24 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/2 -- Burned wood |
| 02:29 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Who needs burned wood? Just vaporize it! |
| 02:29 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Could have been cool to have charcoal as well though... |
| 02:30 |
wsor4035 |
preferably with the nuke mod |
| 02:37 |
red-001 |
cheapie: perhaps sufficiently low reviews should result in a mod being pulled pending manual re-approval tbh |
| 02:37 |
red-001 |
that mod sounds terrible |
| 02:37 |
cheapie |
red-001: Possibly, but reviews are so powerful on ContentDB that a review score of -1 tends to push most mods far enough down the list that nobody ever reviews them again |
| 02:39 |
cheapie |
About the only times a package really gets more than two or three negative reviews is when it's a Crap Jam thing and so everyone is reviewing it |
| 02:40 |
cheapie |
time* |
| 02:43 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Maybe I'll start reviewing the packages with only one review then... |
| 02:44 |
Sheriff_U3 |
1002 packages claim to support ALL GAMES on ContentDB |
| 02:46 |
cheapie |
celevator supports all games (it has no hard dependencies), actually placing the nodes in a lot of those games is left as an exercise for the reader |
| 02:47 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Still I wonder how many of those are inaccurate... |
| 02:48 |
cheapie |
I can't remember if I took any screenshots of the time I installed an elevator in a Backrooms Test world |
| 02:48 |
Sheriff_U3 |
🤣 |
| 02:49 |
cheapie |
Tested it in Air Game once too :P |
| 02:52 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> > perhaps sufficiently low reviews should result in a mod being pulled pending manual re-approval tbh for what? lol |
| 02:52 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> such nonsense unless there is a rule change |
| 02:53 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> > 1002 packages claim to support ALL GAMES on ContentDB probably? because these are from before game support was added? citation needed |
| 03:17 |
bgstack15 |
I doubt there are many people running ContentDB instances beyond just their own individual use, regardless of using docker or not. |
| 03:33 |
bgstack15 |
user333_: I would be interested in mirroring/caching ContentDB, but the project isn't designed to let us randos host it and be officially listed as mirrors. So our mirrors have to be for personal use, lol |
| 03:34 |
user333_ |
i'll set one up on my server tomorrow and maybe write a script to do it without docker for those interested |
| 03:42 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> rubenwardy is actually interested in the possibility of having a CDN type system where downloads do come from different sources to spread load, but it's a tech challenge |
| 04:00 |
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| 10:11 |
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| 10:26 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> @Blockhead256 would need to setup package signing I kinda feel for that |
| 10:29 |
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| 10:48 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Oktay> https://content.luanti.org/packages/Mish7913/natural_habitat/ has burned wood, if you need it |
| 10:55 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Oktay> Actually I've been wondering why we don't have something like "untested". I totally understand and think it's cool to be able to install mods old like 10+ years. But contentdb should state that it's either supported (and tested) or say something like "could work / untested". That way we could also filter, test and ping the autor. I would also like to be able to mark an older mod (before game support) as "working" for the game I'm currenty ru |
| 10:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Oktay> Actually I've been wondering why we don't have something like "untested". I totally understand and think it's cool to be able to install mods old like 10+ years. But contentdb should state that it's either supported (and tested) or say something like "could work / untested". That way we could also filter, test and ping the autor. I would also like to be able to mark an older mod (before game support) as "working" for the game I'm currently r |
| 11:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Oktay> using an etablished company for cdn could become expensive quickly. Have you thought about having volunteers with bigger upstreams to act as a replicator? the packages need to be hashed in order to avoid malicous code injection. I think, the linux package systems do similar stuff. |
| 11:24 |
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| 18:11 |
Sheriff_U3 |
How did https://content.luanti.org/packages/Plutonium/plutoniumships/ pass https://content.luanti.org/policy_and_guidance/#23-language? It's in french! |
| 18:11 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/23 -- French translation update by cisoun |
| 18:12 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> the package details are in english, thats how it passed |
| 18:17 |
Sheriff_U3 |
hmm ok |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<ggepic64> But the itemstrings... |
| 18:19 |
MTDiscord |
<ggepic64> Spammars really are everywhere |
| 18:20 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I've made a pr to the author before that translated the entire mod to english and preserved his french strings. |
| 18:21 |
Sheriff_U3 |
He turned it down because he was afraid of modifying the mod. |
| 18:22 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Been thinking about forking it for a little while now... |
| 18:22 |
Sheriff_U3 |
But I've got other things to work on. |
| 18:35 |
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| 19:17 |
rubenwardy |
The rules require the content to be in English too |
| 19:20 |
rubenwardy |
But there's a pr that will make this not a problem soon |
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| 21:08 |
Sheriff_U3 |
rubenwardy: would it be possible to include unapproved packages in the daily backups? I'm working on a tool that parses through the backup to generate some basic stats. |
| 21:11 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I'm referring to the ContentDB daily database dumps of course. |
| 21:27 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> There generally is a reason they aren't approved |
| 21:27 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> Legal/rules |
| 21:30 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Just doesn't make much sense to have a state field in the daily dump if all the packages in it are approved. |
| 21:32 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Every package in the dump has "state": "APPROVED" in it's index.json |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> state is a useful internal field for other reasons, it's not added specifically for the dump |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> it's just a side-effect that it appears there since its just for approved/published packages |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> there isn't really a legal issue afaik with just making downloadable user uploaded files, you could probably make it downloadable in the database dump |
| 21:35 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> just means having to comply with takedown requests there too |
| 21:36 |
cheapie |
Even just the metadata would be kind of neat, would be interesting to see what sort of packages have been rejected |
| 21:36 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> > there isn't really a legal issue afaik with just making downloadable user uploaded files yes, there would be if the packages contain copyrighted material and the download host is CDB |
| 21:37 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> > would be interesting to see what sort of packages have been rejected idk if that's legally as problem but also would kind of be like shaming users, and probably not the best idea, imho |
| 21:37 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> so like Sheriff_U3 could do this but from an organisational perspective I think moderators want to have a way to be able to take packages actually private |
| 21:38 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> I'm not sure right now what states the database has but including unapproved packages in a publicly viewable part would I presume require adding ways of suppressing packages from even that |
| 21:38 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> (like in response to a lawful takedown request) |
| 21:38 |
cheapie |
TBH for my curiosity, I'd be quite happy if we even just got a "top 10 weirdest rejected packages" thing posted sometime, with usernames and such stripped out :P |
| 21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> arguably would also need a legal hold state for malware |
| 21:39 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> it seems more interesting from the outside than it is from the inside. The rejections are mostly crayon licences and poor quality code |
| 21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> > moderators want to have a way to be able to take packages actually private there is a way to delist package currently and it also happened recently for some |
| 21:39 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> that's more debatable but certainly other things that would need a legal hold state that blocks access |
| 21:40 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Right now my script outputs the following for package state: APPROVED 3455 |
| 21:40 |
cheapie |
Blockhead256: I don't know about you, but I find those (more so the poor quality code) interesting |
| 21:40 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> interesting i wrote a mirror for CDB, and I have 3,463 packages found. :) |
| 21:40 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> Sheriff_U3: what's your usecase for this? |
| 21:40 |
cheapie |
I used to read The Daily WTF all the time just for that (and Error'd) before the site turned to crap |
| 21:40 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> you can simulate it by asking an LLM to make you a mod and not fixing it up properly |
| 21:41 |
cheapie |
> asking an LLM to make you a mod and not fixing it up properly |
| 21:41 |
Sheriff_U3 |
red.023: statistics |
| 21:41 |
cheapie |
Those seem to often get approved |
| 21:41 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> The effects of "Claude Sonnet make me a mod" |
| 21:41 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> really the effects of Claude Sonnet doing anything at all |
| 21:41 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> the ones that get approved, the user was actually not a complete coding novice or more often approvers asked them to fix up the code |
| 21:41 |
cheapie |
https://content.luanti.org/packages/DiamondFist/better_creative/ | https://content.luanti.org/packages/DiamondFist/chunk_mover/ | https://content.luanti.org/packages/ronrob-lu/escalator/ |
| 21:41 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> not really, claude would either do a good job with licenses or wouldn't add any, it wouldn't quite write what people do |
| 21:42 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> kinda seems like just the package metadata would be enough there |
| 21:42 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> I think the issue with this is if it happens that sometimes actually needs to be blocked for a serious legal reason |
| 21:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> 90% of the time, somebody uploaded minecraft textures again |
| 21:43 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> like it's a public website, you unfortunately have to be ready to moderate for illegal content and speech that in and of itself could constitute an offense |
| 21:44 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I found a script that luatic had made years ago that used the ContentDB API, updated it to use the daily dump and set it up to show more then just how many packages declare a particular license. |
| 21:44 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> > 90% of the time, somebody uploaded minecraft textures again or non-fsf/osi licences and insist they're legal - the change of sound licenes on that one site did this a lot |
| 21:44 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> like if someone posts their political manifesto about how they are going to kill the president that becomes an issue for everyone if you don't have a database state which preserves the data (likely a legal obligation to preserve it) while also making it not readable by anyone |
| 21:45 |
Sheriff_U3 |
So just add a hidden state that doesn't get published to the daily backup. |
| 21:45 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> yep that's totally a plausible scenario that can happen 👍 |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> yeah I mean probably should have a legal hold state, and a content taken down state |
| 21:46 |
sfan5 |
unrelated but I want to mention my idea of CDB automatically installing and running mods in sandbox to check if they even work again |
| 21:46 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> yeah that was discussed at least recently, probably before that too |
| 21:47 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> the best solution would be to setup someting on gh |
| 21:47 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> I do kinda feel like legal hold might be one of those things never used but better have it and not use it than find yourself needing it and not having it |
| 21:47 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> cdb server spinning up luanti instances is going to be intense |
| 21:47 |
Sheriff_U3 |
sfan5: I've seen github actions that try to do that for prs, in some cases though the mod is fine but the action still fails |
| 21:48 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> (along with having true delete, not just soft delete, sometimes you need to actually delete delete something, usually funnily enough in the state machine this might well be the next state after legal hold) |
| 21:48 |
Sheriff_U3 |
https://github.com/mt-mods/xcompat/pull/76/checks |
| 21:48 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Oversight |
| 21:49 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> > Suppression on Wikipedia (also known as oversight for historical reasons) is a form of enhanced deletion that, unlike normal page deletion or revision deletion, expunges information from any form of usual access, even by administrators. It is used within strict limits to protect privacy, remove defamatory material, and sometimes to remove serious copyright violations, from any edit, revision, page, or log entry on the English Wikipedia. |
| 21:50 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> Sheriff_U3: I just don't know if your usecase is important enough to implement new states for |
| 21:51 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> like pre-approval access is only a internal policy issue, but access for anything rejected might move towards being a compliance issue |
| 21:51 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Sounds like I need to start a poll then to gain some support |
| 21:52 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> like at least I think would need DMCA hold states and Oversight/Suppression style expunged/soft-delete/legal hold states |
| 22:00 |
red-001 |
Sheriff_U3: sure I mean why not make an issue on the CDB github |
| 22:01 |
Sheriff_U3 |
CDB issues are quite dead though... |
| 22:01 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I'll make one though |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
like there's no particular issue with giving access to unapproved mods or their metadata, I'm not sure to what degree however CDB distinguishes between rejected mods and not yet approved ones |
| 22:03 |
red-001 |
obligations at best start once you have a person look at the mod |
| 22:10 |
Sheriff_U3 |
https://github.com/luanti-org/contentdb/issues/681 for anyone interested. |
| 22:23 |
rubenwardy |
I could expose some information from /admin/approval_stats/ about the approval queue |
| 22:38 |
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