| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:26 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 00:43 |
|
sec^nd joined #luanti |
| 01:01 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 01:17 |
|
liceDibrarian joined #luanti |
| 01:34 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 02:41 |
|
x_ joined #luanti |
| 03:01 |
cheapie |
So something I've been wanting to look into for a while now in celevator - the jittering/shaking of the car from the point of view of the player when it's moving, even when the speed isn't changing. |
| 03:01 |
cheapie |
I threw together a simple "flying dirt node" mod as a test, it does the same thing: https://gist.github.com/cheapie/353b7e585c448ae04ca6b0e94eff570e |
| 03:01 |
cheapie |
Video: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/2025-03-29%2021-57-35.webm |
| 03:01 |
cheapie |
Am I doing something wrong (this is quite probable) or is this a bug that I can't find/has never been reported? |
| 03:03 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 03:04 |
|
SwissalpS joined #luanti |
| 03:07 |
|
x_ joined #luanti |
| 03:08 |
|
FileX joined #luanti |
| 03:15 |
swee |
404 |
| 03:19 |
|
sinvet joined #luanti |
| 03:23 |
|
shinbet joined #luanti |
| 03:23 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 03:24 |
cheapie |
swee: Which one? (both work for me) |
| 03:30 |
|
Can0xfBows joined #luanti |
| 03:47 |
swee |
cheapie, the video |
| 03:48 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> works for me |
| 03:48 |
swee |
might be HexChat messing up the URL anyways :p |
| 03:48 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> are you using some esoteric browser? |
| 03:48 |
swee |
No, I'm using Chromium |
| 03:49 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> interesting, could always just wget get the file i suppose if you really cared |
| 03:49 |
swee |
oh, HexChat replaced the %20 with %2520 |
| 03:55 |
cheapie |
Yeah, HexChat tries to be "helpful" like that, it's annoying |
| 03:56 |
swee |
ikr |
| 04:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #luanti |
| 04:02 |
|
Verticen joined #luanti |
| 04:07 |
whosit |
cheapie: try this PR, it seems to be smooth for me: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/15722 |
| 04:10 |
cheapie |
That didn't help any with celevator, I'll try it with the minimal one later |
| 04:11 |
whosit |
meh, sorry |
| 04:12 |
* cheapie |
looks over at another monitor with a multiplayer game open, sees lava in the middle of a donut shop, a few nodes on fire, and the fire alarm going SCREEEEE SCREEEEE SCREEEEE in the background |
| 04:14 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 04:24 |
|
CRISPR joined #luanti |
| 04:27 |
whosit |
I guess it's just network jitter? |
| 04:37 |
cheapie |
I wouldn't expect network jitter to cause an entity to show up at a different position than the player if the client knows (or should know?) that it's attached to it |
| 04:37 |
cheapie |
Higher RTT does seem to make it worse though, and the odd part is the player *does* move smoothly and it's just the entity they're attached to that doesn't |
| 04:38 |
cheapie |
That PR did seem to revolve the minimal case but I haven't tested that in multiplayer, seems to maybe be a /little/ smoother with celevator in multiplayer with it, still not great, but the server doesn't have the PR (no idea if that matters on this one) |
| 04:40 |
cheapie |
It probably doesn't help that celevator attaches the player to an invisible entity that is then attached to another (visible) one, since it seems like everything involving player attachments is designed to be as much of a pain as possible and this made it a lot easier |
| 04:47 |
whosit |
it's pretty weird how I can sometimes get the perfectly smooth ride for quite a while, then teleport back, get new block and it will be jittery... |
| 04:51 |
whosit |
maybe somehow you can end up with attachment being processed in different orders or something, I have no idea :p |
| 04:51 |
cheapie |
Maybe, I've noticed with two players on one elevator sometimes it's smooth for one of them |
| 04:53 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 04:57 |
whosit |
still just retrying and watching: seems like if it starts perfectly smooth, it keeps being smooth, no matter the connection; if it's jittery from the start, then it keep jittering |
| 04:58 |
whosit |
(trying with a PC sever/client connected over wifi) |
| 04:59 |
cheapie |
Yeah, that's about what I've usually seen too |
| 05:00 |
cheapie |
Back when celevator just did a single attachment (and not the double one) I did notice that usually it would be smooth down but not up, with the double one it jitters both ways |
| 05:01 |
whosit |
even pulling ethernet cable didn't disrupt the smooth ride :) |
| 05:02 |
whosit |
anyway, sorry, can't help much - don't know enough about internals... |
| 05:04 |
whosit |
can I try out the celevator anywhere, just out of curiosity? |
| 05:07 |
cheapie |
Yes, mod is here: https://content.luanti.org/packages/cheapie/celevator/ or daconcepts.com:37000 has a lot of them set up |
| 05:09 |
whosit |
thanks :D I checked the mod page out, but seems like requires some set up to get going X) |
| 05:09 |
cheapie |
It does, yeah |
| 05:09 |
cheapie |
Not of the "complex installation tag" sort, but more of the "the manual has 66 pages for a reason" sort |
| 05:10 |
whosit |
yeah :) |
| 05:56 |
|
Verticen joined #luanti |
| 06:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> congratulations to VoxeLibre for overtaking Minetest Game in total downloads from ContentDB |
| 06:10 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> it's a better game than Minetest Game, but it does say something that it was and mostly remains a Minecraft clone |
| 06:10 |
MTDiscord |
<mark.wiemer> I mean... Luanti is built for Minecraft clones 😉 |
| 06:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> ultimately, at least in the loose sense |
| 06:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> thankfully after the top 3 the other games are quite different from the usual Minecraft-like fare |
| 06:13 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said free Minecraft" - Henry Luanti |
| 06:28 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Would be cool if we stopped normalizing the idea that "luanti is built for minecraft clones" |
| 06:31 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Especially when more than half the games on CDB could be easily classified as not Minecraft clones, and the remaining games could make decent arguments against it as well |
| 06:32 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> as I said, "in the loose sense" - that is, a fixed grid of voxel nodes and entities, nothing more |
| 06:33 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> and for performance reasons, most games should not use too many mesh nodes either |
| 06:35 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Thats only if its a sandbox game. If its any other kind of game, by all means, use mesh nodes. Or mesh entities. |
| 06:35 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> if you want to lean into retro, sprites are an option |
| 06:35 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> That too |
| 06:35 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> There is a lot more you can do than just sandbox voxel games |
| 06:37 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> as much as I'm behind people doing other cool things, it's definitely the easiest choice if you're going to use Luanti |
| 06:38 |
MTDiscord |
<greenxenith> Which is why we should continue making Luanti even easier to use for making games in general |
| 06:45 |
|
SliverFlowCipher joined #luanti |
| 07:03 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 07:04 |
|
alpiquero joined #luanti |
| 07:14 |
|
oneeyedalien joined #luanti |
| 07:23 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 07:27 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #luanti |
| 08:14 |
|
___nick___ joined #luanti |
| 08:22 |
|
Warr1024 joined #luanti |
| 08:33 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 08:46 |
|
Warr1024 joined #luanti |
| 09:08 |
|
mentatbashar joined #luanti |
| 09:16 |
MTDiscord |
<mark.wiemer> Yeah I guess it depends on what you count as a clone. In my book, the engine is built around the concept of a 3D, meter-based grid of blocks that players can break and place. Sounds familiar to me! I haven't played many CDB games yet but what I see looks like Minecraft or modded Minecraft to me. Absolutely nothing wrong with that! Luanti as a general game engine is a strange idea, it was certainly built around 3D break-and-place |
| 09:16 |
MTDiscord |
mechanics, and that seems like an excellent niche as I haven't found any other engine that handles this well (and I looked a LOT!) |
| 09:23 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> minor correction: Luanti doesn't have to have a 1 node = 1 metre scale, it can be game-defined what node size, player size, stepheight, gravity and so on that it has |
| 09:23 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> *okay not both node and player size, just player size which decreases the relative node size |
| 09:23 |
Krock |
numbers without units are like sandals without socks. |
| 09:23 |
Krock |
wait no |
| 09:24 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> a ratio is a dimensionless quantity, including scale |
| 09:38 |
sfan5 |
<Blockhead256> and for performance reasons, most games should not use too many mesh nodes either |
| 09:38 |
sfan5 |
to some degree that should be solved |
| 09:38 |
sfan5 |
generally if you find scenes whose performance is challenging for Luanti I'm interest in investigating them |
| 09:39 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> the mesh cache constructs with mesh nodes to some extent then? |
| 09:42 |
sfan5 |
there is a pass that merges identical stuff over the entire scene, now |
| 09:42 |
cheapie |
sfan5: I should've had you see that house someone on VE-C built out of meshnodes (facade centerstone) before I got rid of it :P |
| 09:42 |
sfan5 |
still mesh nodes won't be able to optimize out neighboring faces |
| 09:43 |
sfan5 |
the meshgen could potentially attempt to detect this but would need some research on algorithms first |
| 09:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> research? heck, it probably could be a new paper |
| 09:43 |
cheapie |
It was killing my framerate (but not as much as these things used to), I ended up just replacing it with solid nodes (baked clay) of the same color |
| 09:45 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> almost all of the rendering improvement techniques I hear about are for pure voxel scenes, or the pure voxel part of the scene only |
| 09:45 |
sfan5 |
I think vertex merging (or rather vertex visibility?) is a well-researched subject |
| 09:48 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> oh true, if it's like what blender can do with vertex merging than that is indeed well-established. Blender isn't bound by realtime constraints though |
| 09:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> but talking about different nodes is potentially talking about merging multiple materials and so on (though usually not). Testing for that has to be made quick. Anyway I'm out of my depth already |
| 09:50 |
cheapie |
I have basically no clue what I'm talking about here, but part of me wonders if some sort of "this mapblock is complex and not changing frequently, spin up a separate thread to try to optimize it" thing is practical |
| 09:53 |
sfan5 |
I guess we should actually be working on the texture atlas solution. on most GPUs having a few more or less vertices doesn't really seem to affect performance |
| 09:54 |
sfan5 |
but additional drawcalls seem to be a problem |
| 09:54 |
* cheapie |
hears "texture atlas", suddenly remembers the early 0.4 days |
| 09:55 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> lt4k uses a texture atlas PNG |
| 10:00 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 10:03 |
|
jaca122 joined #luanti |
| 10:16 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I wonder just how small MTG could be made with a texture atlas, asset compression and code compression |
| 10:17 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> the biggest thing would almost certainly end up being sounds |
| 10:51 |
|
Alnotz joined #luanti |
| 10:54 |
whosit |
luanti does not handle well collisions with entities of sizes more than a couple of nodes, so if "player" is about human-sized, then node is about meter sized too... |
| 11:01 |
|
Alnotz joined #luanti |
| 11:01 |
|
Alnotz0 joined #luanti |
| 11:02 |
|
Alnotz0 joined #luanti |
| 11:18 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 11:28 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #luanti |
| 11:42 |
|
FileX joined #luanti |
| 11:52 |
|
est31 joined #luanti |
| 11:55 |
|
Talkless joined #luanti |
| 11:56 |
|
alpiquero joined #luanti |
| 12:38 |
|
Sharpman joined #luanti |
| 12:48 |
|
alpiquero joined #luanti |
| 12:59 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 13:14 |
|
sec^nd joined #luanti |
| 13:28 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> I had to turn off collisions on my 50-node-wide entity in subnodeica because it just didn't work except in a few spots |
| 13:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Bracket> subnodeica? |
| 13:32 |
MTDiscord |
<theidealist> an unfinished game of mine, basically a partial remake of subnautica in luanti |
| 13:32 |
rubenwardy |
the idea list turns into the unfinished project list. How relatable |
| 13:40 |
rubenwardy |
<Blockhead256> congratulations to VoxeLibre for overtaking Minetest Game in total downloads from ContentDB |
| 13:40 |
rubenwardy |
VL has had more total downloads than MTG on CDB for years as MTG was shipped with Luanti, so didn't get many CDB installs. So the total downloads is a fairly corrupted measure. The thing to look at is downloads in the last 30 days. VL is 13945 and MTG is 19966 |
| 13:41 |
rubenwardy |
VL ranks higher on CDB due to reviews, not downloads |
| 13:42 |
|
FileX joined #luanti |
| 13:42 |
rubenwardy |
maybe I should put downloads in the last 30 days on the package page |
| 13:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> if you wanted to lean that way you could have trending sections rather than just top. Never was that into virality personally |
| 13:45 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> or to really gamify it, a plot of daily downloads of most trending packages, so people can try to push their numbers up |
| 13:45 |
rubenwardy |
"top packages" is a heuristic that estimates downloads in the last 30 days and adds average review scores. Total downloads isn't taken into account |
| 13:45 |
sfan5 |
do you have downloads in last year |
| 13:45 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> but you're not making money from that unlike a tech startup who need to juice the analytics |
| 13:45 |
rubenwardy |
https://content.luanti.org/packages/Wuzzy/mineclone2/stats/?start=2024-01-01&end=2024-12-31 |
| 13:45 |
rubenwardy |
filter by last year, it shows a sum |
| 13:46 |
rubenwardy |
last year - 245,725 for VL, 530,760 for MTG |
| 13:46 |
sfan5 |
https://content.luanti.org/packages/sfan5/minetest_classic/stats/?start=2024-01-01&end=2024-12-31 |
| 13:46 |
sfan5 |
stonks |
| 13:47 |
rubenwardy |
there are also CSV downloads and a rest API for those interested |
| 13:50 |
rubenwardy |
another thing is that the "unique download" thing depends on IP addresses in a 14 day period. So if you release an update every 14 days, you'll increase your total downloads by quite a lot |
| 13:50 |
rubenwardy |
which if the updates actually contain changes is not a bad thing necessarily, promotes actively developed packages |
| 13:52 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> gotcha, time to organise all my packages to run in 14 day sprint development cycles :D |
| 14:59 |
|
ireallyhateirc joined #luanti |
| 15:25 |
|
illwieckz joined #luanti |
| 15:38 |
|
cx384 joined #luanti |
| 15:52 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> there are lots of ways to game the cdb ranking if you really watch it |
| 15:52 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> just dont abuse it |
| 15:53 |
ireallyhateirc |
what? you mean Subway Miner isn't the best and most complete game in the galaxy? |
| 15:56 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> that game isnt really gaming much of anything, its barely updated |
| 16:06 |
|
squeaktoy joined #luanti |
| 16:13 |
ireallyhateirc |
one thing about the ranking is that some games (looking at Subway Miner) got positive reviews as jam games due to people having lower expectations than they would for ordinary games |
| 16:13 |
ireallyhateirc |
well we also have games that surpassed expectations as jam games and deserve their high place |
| 16:15 |
MinetestBot |
[git] cx384 -> luanti-org/luanti: Improve hand override documentation af1ffce https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/af1ffce084ff9a37e46649ab693e9f924159d606 (2025-03-30T16:15:11Z) |
| 16:15 |
MinetestBot |
[git] cx384 -> luanti-org/luanti: Document special items 882f132 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/882f132062498b6019e8177fca1d53df875a2e72 (2025-03-30T16:15:11Z) |
| 16:15 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> luanti-org/luanti: Formspec: fix clamped scroll offset of scroll_containers larger than … 309c0a0 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/309c0a0cb6420d13495a003d07b49d126eda80bf (2025-03-30T16:15:38Z) |
| 16:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] y5nw -> luanti-org/luanti: Refactor input handler (#15933) 4cd2273 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/4cd22733499b3ad19424e28ba6399a36ef592927 (2025-03-30T16:16:20Z) |
| 16:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] cx384 -> luanti-org/luanti: Document server texture pack in texture_packs.md (#15951) 41d43e8 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/41d43e8d95a4dd1b983b877b51b04e5ed7983198 (2025-03-30T16:16:34Z) |
| 16:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] wrrrzr -> luanti-org/luanti: Refactor createShadowRenderer 4bc366b https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/4bc366b984aece91fa95a0315586eaa1700994f7 (2025-03-30T16:16:45Z) |
| 16:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] wrrrzr -> luanti-org/luanti: Set StartupWMClass in desktop file d7edf0b https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/d7edf0b229874e8f9f2f5ca3e03df5fe73a53a85 (2025-03-30T16:17:10Z) |
| 16:18 |
MinetestBot |
[git] (9 newer commits not shown) |
| 16:23 |
|
alpiquero joined #luanti |
| 16:37 |
|
SwissalpS joined #luanti |
| 16:42 |
|
___nick___ joined #luanti |
| 16:46 |
|
tzenfore joined #luanti |
| 17:21 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 17:42 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 17:43 |
|
Kimapr joined #luanti |
| 17:53 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 17:59 |
|
Verticen joined #luanti |
| 17:59 |
|
CRISPR joined #luanti |
| 18:45 |
|
___nick___ joined #luanti |
| 18:48 |
|
___nick___ joined #luanti |
| 18:56 |
|
Verticen_ joined #luanti |
| 19:03 |
|
Verticen joined #luanti |
| 19:11 |
|
CRISPR joined #luanti |
| 19:21 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 19:24 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 19:37 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 19:39 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 19:41 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 19:51 |
|
alpiquero joined #luanti |
| 20:04 |
|
alpiquero joined #luanti |
| 20:08 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 20:15 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 20:18 |
|
Desour joined #luanti |
| 20:27 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 20:28 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #luanti |
| 20:33 |
|
SFENCE joined #luanti |
| 21:22 |
|
stephan48 joined #luanti |
| 21:53 |
|
TheSilentLink joined #luanti |
| 21:55 |
cheapie |
New mod idea (as in shitpost, not for actual use) - mesecons pistons but they extend smoothly/slowly and make this noise when they do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8c2N0axAOI&t=6 |
| 21:55 |
cheapie |
Or possibly this noise, one of the two anyway: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrn3a_-Y-5w&t=69 |
| 21:56 |
ireallyhateirc |
reminds me that I need to model a faithful replica of yandev toothbrush |
| 21:57 |
ireallyhateirc |
with a spawner |
| 22:10 |
|
Kimapr joined #luanti |
| 22:34 |
|
panwolfram joined #luanti |
| 22:45 |
|
sec^nd joined #luanti |
| 23:21 |
|
YuGiOhJCJ joined #luanti |
| 23:23 |
|
est31 joined #luanti |
| 23:47 |
|
FileX joined #luanti |
| 23:55 |
|
sinvet joined #luanti |
