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| 12:07 |
calculon |
DrBanner: asuna ores are the same as mtg plus maybe a few more defined by mods |
| 12:07 |
calculon |
so dig as deep as you can, around -1000 should be fine |
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| 13:48 |
MinetestBot |
[git] danielalanbates -> luanti-org/luanti: Fix vendored Lua build trying to compile .h files (#16961) 547f710 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/547f7106e1ae4b695f1e4b56499b075b0044dc40 (2026-02-21T13:47:35Z) |
| 13:48 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sertonix -> luanti-org/luanti: Fix overflow in getMemorySizeMB on 32-bit arches 6e55d1e https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/6e55d1e67260ac69db3cb5bba27b18bd8687ab48 (2026-02-21T13:48:16Z) |
| 13:48 |
ireallyhateirc |
it begins |
| 13:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
watch PRs migrate to the other side |
| 13:54 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> it stops |
| 14:09 |
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| 14:13 |
ireallyhateirc |
one day I'll make a rats HD mod |
| 14:13 |
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| 14:13 |
ireallyhateirc |
with a hand-crafted 3D rat |
| 14:37 |
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| 15:00 |
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| 15:14 |
ireallyhateirc |
mom, can we have minetest? |
| 15:14 |
ireallyhateirc |
but we have minetest at home |
| 15:14 |
ireallyhateirc |
minetest at home: http://minetest.org/ |
| 15:26 |
MTDiscord |
<rollerozxa> mm, probably should obscure the link so nobody accidentally clicks on it if you're gonna mention it |
| 15:27 |
ireallyhateirc |
you could register a trademark or something |
| 15:27 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> luanti-org/luanti: Prefer 'int' for transferring texture layer index in shader 61f3b2e https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/61f3b2edd1febb72b63f94f8248f99e01085349a (2026-02-21T15:26:59Z) |
| 15:27 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> luanti-org/luanti: Don't use deprecated 'varying' in GLSL 1.5 bdac895 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/bdac895f4a5c84ee63905348f41e2c0605a5d25d (2026-02-21T15:26:59Z) |
| 15:27 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> luanti-org/luanti: Prefer 'int' for transferring texture layer index in shader (part 2) b373298 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/b373298027a774217a1d4abd0e6159faf13255c0 (2026-02-21T15:26:59Z) |
| 15:27 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> luanti-org/luanti: Change type of inVertexAux to uint a684b53 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/a684b532897d3b95fec81089658f928ca51b0e97 (2026-02-21T15:26:59Z) |
| 15:27 |
ireallyhateirc |
the problem is that people searching for luanti but who remember the old name will find that domain |
| 15:28 |
ireallyhateirc |
I get it as the first search result on duckduckgo |
| 15:28 |
ireallyhateirc |
luanti is the second result |
| 15:30 |
ireallyhateirc |
most sane people would probably understand something's wrong with that website after reading the decadent "minetest peaked in 2015" and "Due to conflicting goals it's fading away today" |
| 15:31 |
ireallyhateirc |
for me it's pure comedy |
| 15:36 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, if you google "minetest", you get luanti as the top search result, so i think stuff is working okay |
| 15:38 |
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| 15:43 |
ireallyhateirc |
well ddg is a but dumb, yeah |
| 15:44 |
ireallyhateirc |
in google I get it as the 4th result |
| 15:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
interestingly the 3th result is some half-dead polish edu website of some school |
| 15:48 |
ireallyhateirc |
I guess I could start offering paid courses that teach kids luanti modding if I don't get any other job |
| 16:12 |
rubenwardy |
Trademark registration and enforcement would cost many thousands. And it's a name we've moved away from |
| 16:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Not familiar with the matter, but I vaguely recall that in some legislations, trademarks are "use it or lose it" |
| 16:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> So we would be forced to enforce to keep the trademark, and that could harm various projects that have adopted and adapted the name |
| 16:14 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I believe there has been some drama around similar matters in other FOSS communities where trademarks were enforced |
| 16:28 |
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| 16:41 |
ireallyhateirc |
yeah, it's probably not worth to get a trademark on a stale name |
| 16:43 |
ireallyhateirc |
but you could register Luanti as a trademark and make people mark their forks/websites as unofficial |
| 16:44 |
ireallyhateirc |
then you only lose money once on trademark registration (and every 10 years?) |
| 16:45 |
ireallyhateirc |
and then clearly misleading uses such as luanti.xyz or luanti.org would be forbidden |
| 16:46 |
ireallyhateirc |
calling your fork "the final minetest" and saying that the project had died in 2015 is plainly misleading and malicious |
| 16:46 |
ireallyhateirc |
after registering a trademark you don't even need to lose money on legal action |
| 16:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
you can just send them scary mails about legal action lol |
| 16:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
you'd need to keep the trademark lax enough not to scare people but to block clearly malicious uses |
| 16:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
but in the long run idk if it's worth it |
| 16:50 |
ireallyhateirc |
it could cost up to 1000 euro to register that trademark |
| 16:52 |
ireallyhateirc |
FOSDEM pizza is probably a better use for 1000 euro |
| 16:55 |
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| 16:57 |
MTDiscord |
<et086> i wonder what [the person who shall not be named] would think about the new name lol |
| 17:29 |
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| 18:33 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> final luanti the real final - Copy.pptx |
| 18:33 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> also, i wonder if anyone is planning to make an anticheat using sscsm |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:39 |
ireallyhateirc |
let's wait for sscsms to actually get useful APIs first |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> birdlover32767: yes |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> sscsm let you send certificates to the server, which greatly facilitates anticheat |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> will let you* |
| 18:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
there's still the question of licensing issues which I discussed with Desour and I will remind about it later when these features actually land |
| 18:47 |
Desour |
ireallyhateirc: are you [? |
| 18:47 |
ireallyhateirc |
no |
| 18:48 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> secretly log player data and sell it to big luanti |
| 18:48 |
Desour |
maybe I misremember, but iirc, there was someone named [ (or ]?) in irc (iirc) who was requesting free only sscsm |
| 18:49 |
ireallyhateirc |
TL;DR my point was that 1. some users would like to be able to exclude non-foss licenses for SSCSMs 2. luanti generally needs licensing metadata to be passed from the server to the client to stay compliant with for example CC BY-SA, etc. |
| 18:49 |
[ |
Desour: I am not ireallyhateirc |
| 18:50 |
ireallyhateirc |
because if you send a CC-licensed media file to the client and don't deliver the license along with it, then you're technically violating the license |
| 18:50 |
Desour |
I have the topic on TODO (see also possible follow up prs listed in #15818) |
| 18:50 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/15818 -- Create SSCSM skeleton and scripting by Desour |
| 18:52 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ireallyhateirc: imo, low priority detail. if you need to ship license info with your sscsm, put it in code comments. can be pretty compact with SPDX license identifiers. |
| 18:53 |
ireallyhateirc |
well if the SSCSM API will be flexible enough for me to write a mod to detect and exclude non-free licenses then that's fine |
| 18:53 |
Desour |
SSCSM will not be providable by the client |
| 18:53 |
Desour |
(or the user, to be exact) |
| 18:54 |
Desour |
we should probably reject non-free scripts by default. after all, software freedom is a big part of luanti |
| 18:55 |
ireallyhateirc |
I just don't want luanti to become Web 3.0 with random proprietary blackboxes running in a freshly introduced environment |
| 18:56 |
ireallyhateirc |
even if you do your best trying to secure it there could still be some bugs |
| 18:56 |
Desour |
I wonder, is hosting a luanti server (or a web server, it's pretty similar) a form of publishing / sharing the content you send to the client, I mean from a law perspective? |
| 19:00 |
ireallyhateirc |
well there's the act of copying files and sending them over network to the client, so I believe it counts? |
| 19:00 |
ireallyhateirc |
otherwise you could stream Shrek to people for free |
| 19:01 |
ireallyhateirc |
both the GPL and CC licenses require the license file to be either shipped or linked to the user |
| 19:03 |
ireallyhateirc |
if your media/mods are proprietary then it's up to you to provide the license to players, but you don't have to |
| 19:03 |
ireallyhateirc |
by default everything is All rights reserved |
| 19:04 |
ireallyhateirc |
so technically the players don't have the right to play, which is funny but is also a gray zone - it is obviously streamed to be played |
| 19:04 |
ireallyhateirc |
just like most websites do with JS these days |
| 19:15 |
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| 19:17 |
[ |
<+MTDiscord> <luatic> sscsm let you send certificates to the server, which greatly facilitates anticheat |
| 19:17 |
[ |
What do you mean? |
| 19:17 |
[ |
The client cannot be trusted |
| 19:18 |
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| 19:19 |
ireallyhateirc |
well you could implement DRM and lua uglifying but then it goes against FOSS principles and can be still cracked like most proprietary games do anyway |
| 19:20 |
ireallyhateirc |
idk if the devs want to play whac-a-mole with the community |
| 19:20 |
sfan5 |
unless luanti ships with impractical restrictions then SSCSM will absolutely go the way of JS on the web |
| 19:24 |
Desour |
luatic has described what he means by certificates here: https://luatic.dev/posts/2025-07-25-cheating/ |
| 19:26 |
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| 19:26 |
Desour |
ireallyhateirc: hmm. cc's definitions list as examples "reproduction, public display, public performance, distribution, dissemination, communication, or importation" (section 1 k <https://spdx.org/licenses/CC-BY-SA-4.0.html>) so yeah, hosting a luanti server probably falls under it |
| 19:27 |
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| 19:28 |
sfan5 |
it'd be helpful if the engine had a standard way for mods to announce their presence and license (like /help) |
| 19:29 |
Krock |
sfan5: something else to add to the .conf file -> #16964 |
| 19:29 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/16964 -- Add the CDB repo & links metadata to offline package `.conf`s |
| 19:31 |
Desour |
there's also #9395 |
| 19:31 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/9395 -- Expand mod.conf with additional meta information (author, version, copyright, etc.) |
| 19:31 |
Desour |
idk if we have an issue that covers sending licensing information alongside media (or other content) to the client |
| 19:42 |
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| 19:42 |
MTDiscord |
<bastrabun> We tried making a "template mod" where license stuff is not only a file, but also somewhere in a Lua level information table, available via /mods. It uses this table and reads the remaining values from mod.conf There's also spdx and other projects for machine readable licenes. It would already help a lot if licenses were only in one place |
| 19:42 |
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| 19:47 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> .cdb.json is a thing |
| 19:50 |
Desour |
@wsor: what is it? |
| 19:50 |
Desour |
doc? |
| 19:51 |
bgstack15 |
Desour: https://content.luanti.org/help/package_config/#cdbjson |
| 19:51 |
Desour |
thx! |
| 20:03 |
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| 20:09 |
bgstack15 |
hm, if sscsm ever happens, Mineclonia could use it! That would be great. |
| 20:16 |
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| 20:45 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> [_: precisely, the client can not be trusted. with SSCSM, you can have clients send certificates which prove that they should have been able to do the things they did. |
| 20:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ah i see my blog post has already been linked, wonderful, thanks desour! |
| 20:48 |
Desour |
np ^^ |
| 20:56 |
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| 21:05 |
MTDiscord |
<the4spaceconstants2181> wait isn't luanti.org the correct one? |
| 21:09 |
Desour |
it is. luanti.org and minetest.net |
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MTDiscord |
<bastrabun> thx wsor 🙂 That's something we will want to support as well 🙂 adds issue to template |
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