| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:21 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #luanti |
| 00:46 |
cheapie |
"mom can we get an Fü2L/60?" "we have an Fü2L/60 at home" the Fü2L/60 at home: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/2026-08-20%2019-42-22.webm |
| 00:47 |
cheapie |
IRL version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBoweUmOlvc |
| 01:13 |
|
___nick___ joined #luanti |
| 01:20 |
|
Sokomine joined #luanti |
| 01:35 |
|
Juri joined #luanti |
| 01:35 |
|
Niklp joined #luanti |
| 01:36 |
|
FeXoR joined #luanti |
| 01:57 |
* cheapie |
peeks in the fridge at the Bonnthal fire station, sees https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20260820_205611_1.png |
| 01:57 |
cheapie |
98 triple berry smoothies, 98 jars of mayonnaise labeled "Hand Dressing", 10 2mg estradiol pills, a speed limit sign, and some corium |
| 02:11 |
user333_ |
https://lounge.swee.codes/uploads/f7e22344d7ea976f/Screenshot_20260820_230823.png luantiserver finished building on my RPi1 |
| 02:11 |
cheapie |
That took a while |
| 02:11 |
user333_ |
indeed lol |
| 02:12 |
cheapie |
I have a 1B here, maybe I should set it up on there sometime and see what it runs like |
| 02:12 |
user333_ |
tbh it runs MTG for a few players decently |
| 02:13 |
user333_ |
anything more demanding and 512mb RAM isn't going to cut it |
| 02:13 |
cheapie |
I'd like to get a 1A sometime just because of how amusingly bad they are, but for some reason the 1A is basically impossible to find |
| 02:14 |
user333_ |
!up luanti.user333.sweeux.org:40002 |
| 02:14 |
MinetestBot |
luanti.user333.sweeux.org:40002 is up (113ms) (IPv4) |
| 02:14 |
user333_ |
^ my RPi1 server |
| 02:17 |
|
bdju joined #luanti |
| 02:22 |
|
luk3yx joined #luanti |
| 02:23 |
cheapie |
user333_: I have CPUs slower than that too, maybe I should try devtest on some random potato... |
| 02:23 |
user333_ |
should i try it on my atom n270 laptop |
| 02:23 |
cheapie |
Meh, those are faster |
| 02:23 |
user333_ |
hm |
| 02:23 |
cheapie |
I was thinking like trying to host devtest on a SiS 550 or something |
| 02:24 |
user333_ |
crosscompile for linux + musl libc on MIPS32 and run it on a router? |
| 02:24 |
user333_ |
i can do that if i really want to.. |
| 02:24 |
cheapie |
I have one that would be fun, but not enough RAM and its kernel was built without swap support |
| 02:25 |
user333_ |
i miiiight be able to get away with the 16mb flash + 64mb RAM on this |
| 02:25 |
user333_ |
10MB for luantiserver (or maybe even less with -Os) and 6mb for the OS |
| 02:27 |
cheapie |
Now get it to fit in 64K and run it on RVController :P |
| 02:28 |
user333_ |
with a custom server that essentially just runs airgame, maybe |
| 02:28 |
cheapie |
have fun :P https://cheapiesystems.com/git/rvcontroller/ |
| 02:29 |
user333_ |
but i don't know enough C! |
| 02:29 |
cheapie |
You can program it in RISC-V assembly instead! :P |
| 02:29 |
|
[ joined #luanti |
| 02:29 |
user333_ |
it was fun to get my own stuff running on that though |
| 02:29 |
cheapie |
Or Rust, someone else got Rust working on it: https://git.h.wer.ee/xfnw/rvcontroller-rust |
| 02:29 |
user333_ |
ew rus- |
| 02:30 |
cheapie |
Really anything that can compile for riscv32-none-elf in freestanding mode (no stdlib, unless you want to write one) should work |
| 02:31 |
user333_ |
problem is i don't know much low-level stuff |
| 02:31 |
cheapie |
Then this is your chance to learn :D |
| 02:31 |
user333_ |
still learning C, it's fun |
| 02:31 |
cheapie |
I didn't really know what I was doing either when I started this project |
| 02:32 |
user333_ |
and now it's literally in the official RISC-V docs |
| 02:32 |
cheapie |
At least in the marchid list, yeah |
| 02:32 |
cheapie |
(there are now two more after it, I no longer have the highest number :P) |
| 02:32 |
user333_ |
that counts imo |
| 03:14 |
|
Fulgen joined #luanti |
| 03:17 |
cheapie |
This reminds me of back when I was playing with attachments and automatic_rotate: https://www.reddit.com/r/TuningVerbrechen/comments/1roxm8w/lieber_vertikal_drehende_t%C3%BCr_oder_horizontal/ |
| 03:52 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> rust is the devil and mozilla is the church |
| 03:58 |
user333_ |
luanti rust rewrite when |
| 03:59 |
[MatrxMT]_ |
<lazerbeak12345> Its a shame that C++ isn't taking memory safety seriously. |
| 03:59 |
|
Fusl joined #luanti |
| 04:00 |
|
MTDiscord joined #luanti |
| 04:00 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> its still stuck in the stone age. you expect it to hop past that to memory safety? lol |
| 04:01 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> its sorta getting packages, but even then its completely jank |
| 04:02 |
user333_ |
https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/9233 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/9835 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/issues/14801 short answer: no |
| 04:03 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> funny how the middle one is being done now |
| 04:04 |
user333_ |
huh, really? |
| 04:04 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> yes |
| 04:04 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> not officially, person in the community |
| 04:04 |
user333_ |
of course |
| 04:05 |
user333_ |
i also seem to recall a partial golang port, though i don't know much about that |
| 04:05 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> buckaroo has a bunch of tools and libs in go |
| 04:05 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> paradust has the rust networking lib that whats there name continued and started working on a server |
| 04:06 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> a certain core dev has a personal rust client project |
| 04:06 |
user333_ |
the web port by paradust is probably my favorite |
| 04:06 |
user333_ |
i should selfhost one for fun |
| 04:07 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> it is funny how every self host (that ive seen) just reuse his servers for networking |
| 04:09 |
user333_ |
https://github.com/ProunceDev/BetterMT not sure if i'd call this a "port" by a "community member" but this exists |
| 04:22 |
|
est31 joined #luanti |
| 04:23 |
|
delgnam joined #luanti |
| 04:40 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> user333_ what if we re-write it in natural language |
| 04:40 |
user333_ |
glhf |
| 04:42 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> I just want to say I have been vindicated on the whole "media loader should be in rust" thing |
| 04:44 |
MTDiscord |
<paradust> soon |
| 04:44 |
MTDiscord |
<paradust> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/749727888659447960/1540220004912595005/Screenshot_From_2026-08-21_00-43-16.png?ex=6a892929&is=6a87d7a9&hm=7d5210543a6065999dbba2d745b4d29f5955fee97b18c8e7927411d7922d88ab& |
| 04:44 |
user333_ |
writing one specific part of the program in rust is kind of weird, either all of the program or none of it should be in rust |
| 04:44 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> it will tell you it can't do that for security issues @para |
| 04:45 |
MTDiscord |
<paradust> it will not deny me |
| 04:45 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> do it then |
| 04:46 |
user333_ |
have fun with that |
| 04:46 |
MTDiscord |
<paradust> Don't tempt me! Understand, I would use this power from a desire to do good. But through me, it would wield a power too great and terrible to imagine. |
| 04:47 |
user333_ |
a C rewrite would be interesting, hard to do but it could potentially be faster than C++ |
| 04:47 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> how would it be that |
| 05:02 |
|
Trifton_ joined #luanti |
| 05:58 |
|
FeXoR joined #luanti |
| 06:25 |
|
chloetax joined #luanti |
| 06:26 |
|
red-001 joined #luanti |
| 06:35 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Because they hate C++ so C will automatically be faster |
| 06:46 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> But, while I understand C may be faster than C++ in certain situations, trying to maintain structural/functional code along with the continual burden of cmake and header files it may just be the first write only voxel game because no one will be able to understand it |
| 06:47 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> So yes your potential to go faster is there but then you get to deal with C which is basically some sugar over (insert architecture here) assembly |
| 06:48 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> Which, in certain situations, that is absolutely fantastic! But when your game has high level concepts such as a Server Active Object or Client Active Object an absolute good luck doing a procedural/functional/duct taping oop to C |
| 06:52 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> The actual problem with the current C++ code isn't C++, it's implementation. It is a lose assembly of components duct taped together to continue functioning and this shall keep happening in small increments so it shall take many years before it gets modern C++ features which will be just common place features. Oh man I sure do love lambdas to capture the environment, that didn't actually exist in some of the code when that code was |
| 06:52 |
MTDiscord |
created and yet if I tell you "Lambdas are new wow!!" you will tell me I am dumb, and they've always existed, and why do you have so much free time to look up the history of C++? And to that I say, half life 1 models were technically able to be supported by this game engine at one point it was just inert |
| 06:53 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> I'm not too sure if we still do manual reference counting anymore and I am too scared to look |
| 06:57 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> The problem isn't, MAN SOMEONE SHOULD FIX ALL THOSE OUTDATED FEATURES, it's what logical side effects are we going to get? I'm not even talking with rust's talking points, if this were a rust program and we're updating our code to use smarter features 10 years in the future to keep it modernized with modern commodities, what are the logical side effects? Are we going to leak memory like I tried to use a sieve as a bucket? Are there |
| 06:57 |
MTDiscord |
going to be 100 local client objects every time you join a server? Does this open a hole into the lua sandbox? The sweeping changes cause monstrous side effects that no language can solve because a language is a set of instructions, and if you're learning french and tell someone to "go eat a bag of dirt you idiot" instead of "we're having a nice day" your side effects are going to be very bad |
| 06:58 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> There is intention and there is safety, and the problem isn't even the safety at this point the problem is the intention. And with those changes you're pointing the intention cannon to the sky and hoping for the best and let's hope the intention cannon ball doesn't land back on you |
| 07:04 |
MTDiscord |
<jordan4ibanez> So I suppose now that I think about this even further the only thing I can think of to fix it is, the code base needs to be a bit more modular. There is quite a lot of tight coupling in a few places. And that should probably be a target for 5.19 or 6.0 or whatever. Modulate the code base so components can be ripped out at will or rewritten |
| 07:28 |
|
[MatrxMT] joined #luanti |
| 09:18 |
|
kimapr left #luanti |
| 09:37 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #luanti |
| 10:04 |
|
kimapr joined #luanti |
| 10:04 |
|
kimapr left #luanti |
| 10:05 |
|
kimapr joined #luanti |
| 10:28 |
|
wsor4035 joined #luanti |
| 10:41 |
|
BadGuyAlex joined #luanti |
| 11:21 |
|
SwissalpS joined #luanti |
| 11:27 |
|
PoochInquisitor joined #luanti |
| 11:38 |
|
mrkubax11 joined #luanti |
| 12:00 |
|
frostsnow joined #luanti |
| 12:55 |
|
GNUHacker joined #luanti |
| 12:56 |
|
Bombo joined #luanti |
| 12:56 |
|
Bombo joined #luanti |
| 13:30 |
|
kimapr left #luanti |
| 13:46 |
|
kimapr joined #luanti |
| 13:49 |
|
jfred joined #luanti |
| 13:59 |
|
turtleman joined #luanti |
| 14:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] ubuntuyou -> luanti-org/luanti: Improve volumetric lighting performance (#17360) e2ca283 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/e2ca283f26b05d4f14293a1742ebcf617ecc09b8 (2026-08-21T14:28:09Z) |
| 14:28 |
MinetestBot |
[git] jordan4ibanez -> luanti-org/luanti: Add textcolor to label docs a6292f6 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/a6292f6fe129876563738bf411be304d025c7b0f (2026-08-21T14:28:21Z) |
| 14:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] sfan5 -> luanti-org/luanti: Optimize image transform modifier (#17384) 7d5626b https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/7d5626ba100a9edaaf7df82f8a70024437a414f7 (2026-08-21T14:28:49Z) |
| 14:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] cx384 -> luanti-org/luanti: Don't use getNodeNoEx for mapblock meshgen (#17411) e918474 https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/e9184745e2a39c0a6de3047fc4dbdeaf12e34a48 (2026-08-21T14:29:39Z) |
| 14:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> luanti-org/luanti: Improve utilities 148af5e https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/148af5efc4aba7049a4711d552a72078bbca10b5 (2026-08-21T14:29:53Z) |
| 14:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] SmallJoker -> luanti-org/luanti: Chat: Prevent leaking RETURN key to newly opened formspec 362ddef https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/commit/362ddefe2dc0b448c122d672c586e27ec370cc34 (2026-08-21T14:29:53Z) |
| 14:30 |
MinetestBot |
[git] (9 newer commits not shown) |
| 15:18 |
|
bwarden joined #luanti |
| 15:24 |
cheapie |
Quite a long time ago I made this, a 6-floor movestone elevator with a relay logic controller: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/images/screenshot_20260821_102223.png |
| 15:24 |
cheapie |
I finally got around to drawing a ladder diagram of how that thing is wired: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/6-floor-relay-logic-elevator.pdf |
| 15:33 |
|
crazylad joined #luanti |
| 15:41 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 15:42 |
|
fgaz joined #luanti |
| 15:43 |
sfan5 |
usually the elevator logic is not bigger than your entire building |
| 15:55 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 15:56 |
cheapie |
sfan5: For all you know, that building in the bottom left could extend several km. It doesn't, but it could :P |
| 16:11 |
|
crazylad joined #luanti |
| 16:50 |
|
SwissalpS joined #luanti |
| 17:07 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #luanti |
| 17:26 |
|
Panquesito7 joined #luanti |
| 18:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> i got around to reading openslop |
| 18:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> and apparently "inclusive language" is a thing |
| 18:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> normal chess is outlawed immediately in favor of inclusive chess where the beginning side is chosen by rock paper scissors |
| 18:24 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Tanavit> Starting white or black is just mirroring the game. |
| 18:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> yeah but it's now ✨️inclusive✨️ |
| 18:32 |
sfan5 |
can we be more inclusive towards ai |
| 18:43 |
bgstack15 |
birdlover32767: which openslopware page are you reading about "inclusive language"? |
| 18:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> here's a link: https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware/src/branch/main/CODE_OF_CONDUCT.md#inclusive-language |
| 18:44 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> so? |
| 18:44 |
technomancy |
wow, so edgy, complaining about a code of conduct. is it somehow 2016 again? |
| 18:45 |
bgstack15 |
Oh, their CoC about their own project. For some reason I thought you meant they were basing their criteria for "slopware" based on those other projects' "inclusive language." |
| 18:45 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> it's 2026 so probably |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> "Some example nouns you can use if you don't know the gender of someone: maintainer" |
| 18:45 |
bgstack15 |
Well, I'm a huge believer of freedom of association. |
| 18:45 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> non-binary people don't own you maintaining your software project some would argue |
| 18:45 |
bgstack15 |
If somebody dislikes that somebody else has standards, I suppose it would be best if they parted ways rather than go all Poettering |
| 18:48 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> and so i will |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> this does seem a little bit like choosing to fighting a battle no-one asked you to fight, and then losing it, can't really see how getting upset at a code of conduct makes you look like the responsible person in the room with views on LLM usage that are taught out |
| 18:48 |
Menchers |
lol, claiming "master" and "blacklist" are non-inclusive |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> thought* |
| 18:48 |
bgstack15 |
Good thing we moved past IDE cables a long time ago, lol |
| 18:49 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> it's still part of the ATA standard might be marked obsolete but the bit is still there and even in 2001 it was device 0 and device 1 unless you were non-technical |
| 18:50 |
cheapie |
I've called them "device 0" and "device 1" for ages now |
| 18:52 |
cheapie |
Similar story with most of these other terms, I usually use the newer ones just to avoid the drama but I generally don't care a whole lot what anyone else says |
| 18:53 |
technomancy |
cheapie: ah, but have you tried complaining about it on IRC? |
| 18:53 |
* cheapie |
complains to technomancy on IRC about... I dunno, advtrains or something |
| 18:53 |
cheapie |
(*cough* https://gist.githubusercontent.com/cheapie/104377ee27f90c0ce1f814d5ad173375/raw/0992cb4c20319f0289f31bf420bc081d9eaa7113/advbugs.txt *cough*) |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> cheapie: that's just Postel's Law applied to human communication ;) |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> cheapie: correct technical term in the first place, "master" and "slave" made no sense and I have to assume were made up out of an assumption non-technical people are afraid of numbers, there's nothing in the protocol that makes one drive primary or secondary apart from some slight details in the state transitions |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> or I guess I should say state changes least the anti PC language police gets upset about that |
| 19:00 |
cheapie |
I'm wondering if it might be one of those things lingering around from the old pre-standardization versions of it, like the "IDE" name itself |
| 19:02 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> maybe yes? I would need to research it, and I'm not sure I personally care enough to do that, it seems like a lot of work, one of those things where you really can't trust the later sources much since someone is going to just lie and come up with something or misremember |
| 19:03 |
cheapie |
Yeah, I'd probably have to buy yet more standards PDFs to do that and I don't really want to spend actual money to settle some argument on the internet /again/ |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> you can get the ata ones for free for 7, I think 6 is out there too I presume the earlier ones are as well, master-slave is actually used in one diagram label for ata 7, one of those physical interface specification with respect to the jumper switches. |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> https://www.hddguru.com/documentation/2006.01.27-ATA-ATAPI-7/ |
| 19:05 |
cheapie |
Those are just the drafts that tend to float around |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> I doubt they are different from the standard |
| 19:05 |
cheapie |
probably not much |
| 19:07 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> it's a compliance thing, you put out the draft for free, you do a revision that removes the word draft from the Word document, and then you make that the standard, I don't think any liked the standards being paid but couldn't get around it so just dump the draft on the mailing list/members area |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> from the ATA-3 (draft) |
| 19:08 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> "2.1.12 master: In ATA-1, Device 0 has also been referred to as the master. Throughout this document the term Device 0 is used" |
| 19:10 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> they then proceeded to again miss that they used it for the physical interface spec for the 68-pin connector |
| 19:11 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> > This standard provides the capability of operating on the AT Bus in a daisy > chained configuration with a second drive that operates in accordance with > these standards. One drive (selected as Drive 0) has been referred to as the > master in industry terms and the second (selected as Drive 1) has been > referred to as the slave (see figure 3 From the ATA-1 spec, it seems like yes this was a pre-standard term cheapie |
| 19:11 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> well from the draft but you know what I mean |
| 19:16 |
MTDiscord |
<red.023> it looks like it might have been related to the soon to be removed spindle sync, probably yes came from a pre-standard world where there were different architectures |
| 20:01 |
|
Izzy joined #luanti |
| 20:20 |
|
squeaktoy joined #luanti |
| 20:20 |
|
squeaktoy joined #luanti |
| 20:28 |
|
squeaktoy joined #luanti |
| 21:27 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #luanti |
| 21:29 |
|
crazylad joined #luanti |
| 21:32 |
|
cheapie joined #luanti |
| 21:50 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Some thing funny I noticed about openslopware... they are using git... which happens to also be on their list of "bad" software... https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware#version-control-clients-and-tooling |
| 21:50 |
crazylad |
haha lmao |
| 21:51 |
crazylad |
"we're gonna complain about it but we're still gonna use it" - that's how you know these people don't actually believe in anything |
| 21:51 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I would open an issue to tell them, but they banned me... |
| 21:51 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> ah well apparently they're using `got` instead |
| 21:51 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> they should have the linux kernel there too, if they don't already |
| 21:51 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> ^ they do |
| 21:51 |
Sheriff_U3 |
they have it there |
| 21:52 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> great, and i guarantee most parts of codeberg run on that! |
| 21:52 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> good for them |
| 21:52 |
Sheriff_U3 |
lol |
| 21:53 |
Sheriff_U3 |
These are the comments they banned me over... https://codeberg.org/ethical-foss/open-slopware/pulls/221 |
| 21:53 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> I'm sure many of you have read it but i liked Linus's view on this: https://lore.kernel.org/linux-media/CAHk-=wi4zC+Ze8e+p3tMv8TtG_80KzsZ1syL9anBtmEh5Z40vg@mail.gmail.com/?x=0 |
| 21:59 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> i don't see why that would be bannable |
| 22:03 |
|
aibo1 joined #luanti |
| 22:03 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I countered their arguments. I guess that's all it takes. |
| 22:05 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> Also, not sure this is the right channel for this, but while I don't really care if they maintain a list of "slopware," I think calling the organization "ethical-foss" is misleading at best. Their focus seems to be just against LLMs (or "AI"), but that's only one small, and most recent, part of software ethics. Things like user privacy, surveillance, security, accessibility, licensing, deceptive UX, labor practices, sustainability, etc |
| 22:05 |
MTDiscord |
etc. are also real ethical issues, but no they're not really (at least at the moment) for "ethical" dev, but more just "anti-LLM" and they try to make it about ethics without caring about the other parts of ethics /rant |
| 22:06 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> also which comment were you banned for exactly? I didn't see anything in there |
| 22:06 |
technomancy |
yeah sure would suck to solve one part of a problem without solving the entire thing |
| 22:07 |
Sheriff_U3 |
I don't know for sure... I just logged on the next day and noticed I was banned, no warning, no email, no notice of why. |
| 22:07 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> not the point, if my agenda is to get rid of LLMs but i phrase it as "I'm just being ethical" then it's misleading isn't it? And I'm really going to argue that the ethics of LLMs is debatable and not the highest priority imho |
| 22:07 |
technomancy |
that makes no sense |
| 22:08 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> which part? |
| 22:10 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> also fyi, I am not a fan of what LLMs are using, but I don't like this constant anti-LLM, "if you use llms you're doing unethical things" bit - i wrote a rant here https://github.com/ZenonSeth/about/blob/main/README.md |
| 22:11 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> have they "desloppified" curl yet of all the fixes to vulnerabilities found using LLMs? :juanchi_face: |
| 22:16 |
|
aibo1 joined #luanti |
| 22:23 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> also Sheriff_U3 - those comments are absolutely no reason to ban anyone, read the entire thread, ruben even replied after you with similar sentiment, I'm sure they didn't ban him |
| 22:23 |
rubenwardy |
nope no ban |
| 22:24 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Idk why they banned me then... That was the first and last time I've had contact with them. |
| 22:27 |
rubenwardy |
could it be something you've said elsewhere? |
| 22:28 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Not that I can think of, I didn't comment on anything else in the repo and haven't contributed either. |
| 22:28 |
MTDiscord |
<the4spaceconstants2181> crazylad ""we're gonna complain about it but we're still gonna use it"": or it could be a joke, though the org name isn't telling of that |
| 22:28 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> if they read this chat, would they ban me, even though I've never made any comments on their entire org? |
| 22:29 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Possibly based off of their Code of Conduct actually |
| 22:29 |
Sheriff_U3 |
If that |
| 22:29 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> feel free to send them my comments if anyone wants to experiment, here's my codeberg profile: https://codeberg.org/ZenonSeth |
| 22:30 |
Sheriff_U3 |
If thats the case then who knows what I could have been banned over... |
| 22:30 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> lol, banning people who have never engaged directly with you would be the epitomy of.. something, idk what exactly to call it, but it's not a good sign |
| 22:30 |
technomancy |
been a while since I've seen https://knowyourmeme.com/photos/1259257-we-should-improve-society-somewhat acted out in real time |
| 22:31 |
Sheriff_U3 |
Cause things like not using neutral language are against their CoC. |
| 22:33 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> technomancy it's literally like you're strawmanning this, and you think I'm talking about this as some kind of 'gotcha' and not trying to address it like the complex issue that shouldn't have extremes, nor that if you call some org "ethical" maybe you should focus on all tings ethical |
| 22:34 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> by which i mean their organization is literally called "ethical-foss" - i didn't put that there, i'm not saying that protesting llm's as un-ethical is wrong because they're not also protesting - but i think that's a misleading name for what their organzation is actually doing |
| 22:35 |
MTDiscord |
<.zenonseth> anyway, this is probably not going to change your or anyone's mind, feel free to dislike me or whatever it is in your head, i'm out, peace |
| 22:37 |
pgimeno |
<cheapie> I finally got around to drawing a ladder diagram of how that thing is wired: https://cheapiesystems.com/media/6-floor-relay-logic-elevator.pdf |
| 22:37 |
pgimeno |
Holy ladder, Batman! Also amusing to see "Modbus" here. What are those relays? From the top view there don't seem to be any mesecons AND gates, which would probably be a logical choice for relay logic off the top of my head |
| 22:38 |
cheapie |
pgimeno: The mention of modbus is because I used a PLC program editor to draw the diagram |
| 22:38 |
pgimeno |
oh haha ok |
| 22:38 |
cheapie |
The relays are made with pistons moving power plants or conductors |
| 22:38 |
pgimeno |
ahhh |
| 22:40 |
cheapie |
Rungs 107 and 108 (which in the real thing are combined into one with an output at both ends) are the only ones where any real complex logic happens |
| 22:41 |
|
panwolfram joined #luanti |
| 22:41 |
cheapie |
And all those really do is compare the numbers stored by the xPM and xCM relays and energize down if PM>CM or up if PM<CM |
| 22:48 |
pgimeno |
I think I see how they work, kind of a priority encoder it seems |
| 22:48 |
|
JerryXiao joined #luanti |
| 22:50 |
pgimeno |
U and D, I mean |
| 23:06 |
MTDiscord |
<the4spaceconstants2181> a thought: LLMs can cause problems yes, but I don't think there are problems exclusive to LLMs |
| 23:08 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
| 23:22 |
|
Eragon joined #luanti |
| 23:35 |
|
sparky4 joined #luanti |
