| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
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| 00:17 |
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| 00:37 |
Sokomine |
has someone mentionned yet that with newest update models and/or skins are broken? legs and heads look as if they're turned by 180 degree and halfway melted into the body |
| 00:51 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> latest stable, or master? |
| 00:53 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> if .x, that should be fixed https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15544 |
| 01:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Sokomine: By newest update, do you mean 8719a81 or newer (current master)? |
| 01:04 |
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| 01:07 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Is the server perchance running character_anim (or playeranim I suppose)? There is a bit of an unfortunate situation surrounding that. |
| 02:41 |
Sokomine |
latest git, and yes, playeranim or so involved (your land server) |
| 05:00 |
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| 12:01 |
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| 12:25 |
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| 13:06 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Sokomine: thanks, that tells me all i need to know. |
| 14:23 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Reminder today meeting |
| 14:35 |
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| 15:25 |
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| 15:39 |
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| 15:44 |
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| 16:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<grorp> nice, pressing the merge button for #15614 on my phone soon then |
| 16:04 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15614 -- In-game settings menu using separate Lua env by grorp |
| 16:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<grorp> (I won't have time for the meeting) |
| 16:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> if we want to start the feature freeze soon, i might also like to get #15606 in for 5.11 |
| 16:05 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15606 -- Allow overriding fonts via media files by appgurueu |
| 16:13 |
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| 16:28 |
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| 16:47 |
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| 17:03 |
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| 17:23 |
MTDiscord |
<landarvargan> The new VoxelManip area limit of 4096000 breaks a lot of CTF maps. Will I need to split them up into smaller schematic portions? |
| 17:24 |
sfan5 |
open a bug, we will raise the limit |
| 17:26 |
sfan5 |
merging #15691 soon |
| 17:26 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15691 -- [no sq] Some fixes by sfan5 |
| 17:30 |
MTDiscord |
<exe_virus> If there is a meeting today, I'd like core devs to select which spatial map for active entities we use so we can move on to collision performance too |
| 18:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Meeting time |
| 18:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Anyone around? |
| 18:02 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> (yes) |
| 18:03 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> i'm here |
| 18:03 |
* Desour |
as well |
| 18:03 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Also pinging nrz and sfan5 |
| 18:04 |
cx384 |
I'm here too |
| 18:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Let's start in the meanwhile. First point: "Feature freeze time" |
| 18:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Two weeks and a few days to go for the next planned release. I'm scared about SDL2 |
| 18:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<grorp> merging (psst I'm not here) |
| 18:07 |
SFENCE |
#14964 is still not merged. So we should go probably without SDL2 again. |
| 18:07 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/14964 -- SDL: Use scancodes for keybindings by y5nw |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
or we should make it work |
| 18:08 |
sfan5 |
but it will be important that there's at least a week or so, so it can get enough testing by users |
| 18:09 |
sfan5 |
I haven't yet replied again on that PR but I think an approach that reuses EKEY_CODE is valuable, due to simplicity |
| 18:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> So RC one week prior? |
| 18:10 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> cc @y5nw if your around |
| 18:12 |
SFENCE |
I am not sure if it will be enough to have only this one merged. Because of https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/14964#issuecomment-2335180342 |
| 18:14 |
sfan5 |
not sure if that matters |
| 18:14 |
SFENCE |
If we do not wnat to break controls, users are used to, we should also suport multiple key binding probably. |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
waiting for a perfect solution will delay everything further |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
bindings will break either way |
| 18:15 |
sfan5 |
I don't even know where + and - are on an US keyboard, but it definitely won't be the same position on QWERTZ |
| 18:18 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> its been two? three? releases that it has been disabled for (but iirc andoird uses it currently?) |
| 18:22 |
SFENCE |
Is it clear from controls if something is binded to + from alpahumeric or from numeric keyboard part? |
| 18:22 |
SFENCE |
* clean |
| 18:23 |
sfan5 |
we should be showing "+" or "keypad +" to differ these |
| 18:24 |
SFENCE |
yes, with it, it should be ok. |
| 18:26 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> I have another PR for supporting multiple keybindings. The problem is that the controls-related PRs more or less all conflict each other |
| 18:29 |
sfan5 |
first things first IMO, and that is the scancode PR |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> one thought regarding that, we probably shouldn't prefer scancode defaults over keycode defaults for A-Z. e.g. zoom should always be Z by default, regardless of whether i'm on a german or english layout. |
| 18:31 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> an exception can be made for WASDQE since for these keys the physical layout matters a lot (but they also don't tend to be shuffled around a lot). |
| 18:32 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> The problem is that we can't mix them because of e.g. keybinding conflicts on AZERTY |
| 18:33 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> And keyboard layouts inconsistently have + or = on the unshifted state; and e.g. we still can't use "/" if it's on Shift-7 |
| 18:34 |
SFENCE |
I see, actual implementation of scancodes uses "-" and "Numepad -". I am not sure if the first one will be clear understand as it is in alphanumeric part of keyboard. |
| 18:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that's also true. tbh i'd almost be leaning towards basing defaults on keycodes as much as possible. |
| 18:35 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> maybe bad idea: collect the set of defaults to apply, if there is a conflict, only use scancode defaults; otherwise try to use keycode defaults for most letter-bound keys. |
| 18:35 |
sfan5 |
that might be confusing |
| 18:36 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> The solution I use so far: the keycode-based defaults are used if the player has previously set a keybinding (using EKEY_CODE-based values) |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, i don't know. i think keycode defaults might make more sense. they'll be more consistent with older luanti versions, and they simply have the correct labels out of the box. |
| 18:48 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> the main downside being that AZERTY et al users (which i think are in the minority and probably used to this) have to rebind WASD. |
| 18:49 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> Except keycode-based settings are basically a hack now with scancodes, see e.g. what I wrote above on +/= and / |
| 18:49 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> A-Z and 0-9 should work though, right? I deem +, - and / not as important. |
| 18:51 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> A-Z and 0-9 works already. Also I think most keys are not based on keycodes (see e.g. H/J/K for the flying-related ones) |
| 18:54 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I know that they work, but currently, for a fresh Luanti setup, the scancodes will be preferred for the defaults, right? |
| 18:54 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> Yes |
| 18:55 |
SFENCE |
I just check it in two random games from steam, binding Z is sensitiv to keyboard laynout in one, and not sensitiv to it in second. So, we should probably select binding by scancodes or characters, and go with it. |
| 18:55 |
SFENCE |
not mixing it. |
| 18:56 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I mean, I would prefer it that if I set Luanti up on a machine with a German keyboard layout, Z is still Zoom, and it is possible to do this in the code. |
| 18:57 |
SFENCE |
We can aslo do multiple key binds, so Y and Z can be bidn to Zoom ? |
| 18:58 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> #15577 |
| 18:58 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15577 -- Implement secondary keybindings by y5nw |
| 18:58 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> And I think this should probably be done for all A-Z keys if possible, at the expense of e.g. AZERTY users who will have to rebind WASD (as is already the case). |
| 18:59 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Was the point about the movement-related keys H /J/K that they are supposed to be in a row, hence scancodes might be the better choice? |
| 19:00 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Well, I think users will survive either way, but "Z is zoom, I is inventory, C is camera, ..." is easier to explain than scancodes / requiring everyone to first bind their controls. |
| 19:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> Also that, but I don't think we can find another sensible default |
| 19:00 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> (H/J/K) |
| 19:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> One problem with secondary keybindings is that they won't resolve conflicts. It's fine for scancodes, but using that for keycodes can be messy |
| 19:01 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> I agree |
| 19:03 |
celeron55 |
frankly even i don't use the i=inventory default even while i'm the one who put that in initially |
| 19:04 |
celeron55 |
i personally switched to e=inventory early on |
| 19:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> Also: with the missing information on keycodes based on shifted states we will "break" (new) user configurations in one way or another. The difference is largely in that they break different configurations. |
| 19:04 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> celeron55: if you have e=inventory, what's aux1 then? 😱 |
| 19:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> F probably? |
| 19:04 |
celeron55 |
yes, F |
| 19:05 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> y5nw: Indeed. I think we can ultimately roll with either. Maybe we should find a way to automatically put new users in the controls dialog to minimize confusion. |
| 19:06 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> F seems weird to me for that since aux1 is often sprinting, and WE being next to each other is good for that. But I digress 😄 |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
well we, as pc users, should embrace rebinding |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
"best controls" are a console thing |
| 19:07 |
celeron55 |
and "no controls" is the phone thing |
| 19:08 |
celeron55 |
(touchscreen doesn't count as control) |
| 19:08 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> Arguably this is only relevant for keyboards anyway since the underlying keybindings hardly matter for touchscreen users as long as the keybinding in question is valid |
| 19:09 |
celeron55 |
of course, a keyboard is both a solution and a problem at the same time |
| 19:10 |
celeron55 |
but one should assume that if someone has a keyboard, they will have personal preferences over which of the 100 keys does what, and given that fact, it's not as crucial to have perfect defaults |
| 19:10 |
Desour |
keyboard, and other devices with keys, like keymice |
| 19:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> Alternatively we can open a new issue on discussing keybinding defaults. That will likely miss the release deadline but at the current stage I would avoid pushing for SDL in 5.11 |
| 19:13 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> that sounds like it would be likely to devolve into bikeshedding, which was not my intention |
| 19:18 |
SFENCE |
I think, if we wants to start feature freeze time today, we shoul go without SDL, otherwise, we should delay release. |
| 19:19 |
SFENCE |
and feature freeze time |
| 19:20 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Do we want to start today? |
| 19:21 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> If so, I would like to merge #15606 first. I see no benefit in delaying it. |
| 19:21 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15606 -- Allow overriding fonts via media files by appgurueu |
| 19:21 |
[MatrxMT] |
<y5nw> I could imagine that we might not release in two weeks because of FOSDEM (or will there be a meeting regardless?), in which case it may be possible to get the scancode PR merged |
| 19:22 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> if you count yourself as one approval, then it has two approvals |
| 19:22 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> so why not |
| 19:22 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> we can just hold the meeting irl 😎 |
| 19:23 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> (idk about that lol but some of us will be there at least, i for instance plan to be there) |
| 19:27 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> well, imma go ahead and merge #15606 in 15m. |
| 19:27 |
ShadowBot |
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/15606 -- Allow overriding fonts via media files by appgurueu |
| 19:41 |
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| 19:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> done. i can go back to unfucking skeletal animation now |
| 19:53 |
MTDiscord |
<wsor4035> im just goring to throw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/25 out there since its got a lot in it and feature freeze soon |
| 20:03 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> so.. what are we gonna do? It'd be nice to maintain the planned schedule |
| 20:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> also, point n°2 is about FOSDEM, so tagging celeron55: "PLEASE finish the renaming process before FOSDEM" |
| 20:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> right now our repo still says "Minetest" |
| 20:05 |
[ |
some servers use aux1 for running, f is inconvenient for that with qwerty (and e is convenient) |
| 20:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> It'd be pretty confusing in my opinion |
| 20:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> also IRC |
| 20:05 |
Desour |
release what we have now, and postpone the rest (i.e. wishlist items on the milestone, and SDL2)? |
| 20:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> I agree, SDL2 sounds pretty risky, but we should really merge y5nw's PR right after that |
| 20:06 |
[ |
IRC channels cannot be renamed |
| 20:06 |
[ |
You can, however, redirect the old channel to the new one and kick everyone |
| 20:07 |
celeron55 |
i might as well now explain here what will happen on github, regarding to the name change |
| 20:07 |
celeron55 |
the only redirect github supports is an automatic redirect that's created in place of a repo, if a repo is transferred between owners (organizations or users) |
| 20:08 |
celeron55 |
for this reason, i will do repo transfers from the minetest organization to the luanti-org organization |
| 20:08 |
celeron55 |
user permissions can't be transferred, so everyone will have to accept new invites to luanti-org |
| 20:08 |
[ |
You might as well use the opportunity to switch from github to something freedom-respecting |
| 20:08 |
[ |
like codeberg |
| 20:08 |
celeron55 |
the repo name can be changed in the transfer. i will use that also |
| 20:08 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> yep, just checked the docs and transferring from the minetest org to the luanti org should be unproblematic |
| 20:09 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> [_: not quite. transferring stuff on GH is essentially free (GH takes care of the redirects), moving to codeberg is not. it would cause disruption especially with CI. |
| 20:09 |
celeron55 |
the organization discussions are stored as a repo and i have been told moving them should be possible. i don't know if this is a fact |
| 20:11 |
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| 20:12 |
celeron55 |
anyway, does anyone want to volunteer to do some of this stuff? i could hand the necessary permissions to luanti-org for a while, if someone would like to give it a go |
| 20:13 |
celeron55 |
there are lots of details to get right, i'm sure i'll miss some of them |
| 20:20 |
celeron55 |
if i now transferred minetest/minetest to luanti-org/luanti, what would happen? |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
the redirects should immediately work for cloning and issues and whatnot |
| 20:21 |
celeron55 |
i think most importantly most would lose write access to it. regaining that requires the teams to be set up again on luanti-org |
| 20:24 |
celeron55 |
organization discussions would remain in the old organization. not sure what transferring them succesfully requires |
| 20:25 |
celeron55 |
luanti-org is missing at least the description and logo, but that's trivial |
| 20:27 |
sfan5 |
<wsor4035> im just goring to throw https://github.com/minetest/minetest/milestone/25 out there since its got a lot in it and feature freeze soon |
| 20:27 |
sfan5 |
obviously we will have to remove half |
| 20:27 |
sfan5 |
it was basically a wishlist for 5.11, not more |
| 20:27 |
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| 20:38 |
[MatrxMT] |
<grorp> could add some of the cool stuff that actually happened to the milestone so it feels better :)) |
| 20:43 |
celeron55 |
i'm inviting everyone now to luanti-org (one by one, this is stupidly tedious) |
| 20:44 |
celeron55 |
please accept the invite so that 1) i don't have to do it again, 2) you will have access to the transferred repos once i start transferring them |
| 20:44 |
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| 20:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> so we're going into FF removing SDL2 and the other 2 features? |
| 20:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Zughy> Release is expected in 3 weeks |
| 21:04 |
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