| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:25 |
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| 01:10 |
Noclip[m] |
Does the ingame contentdb browser and downloader always use https/tls? |
| 01:12 |
rubenwardy |
Yes |
| 01:19 |
Noclip[m] |
rubenwardy: But the connection between client and server during gameplay (including the chat) is still unencrypted, right? |
| 01:19 |
rubenwardy |
Correct |
| 01:19 |
Noclip[m] |
Okay |
| 01:21 |
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| 01:24 |
cheapie |
Decided to try Minetest on a terrible computer from about 2011 here (has an AMD E-450, which is a... not-great netbook CPU, despite this being a desktop). Server can't really keep up, but the client ran okay after turning the settings down enough (I see the default settings still assume you're playing on a supercomputer). |
| 01:24 |
muurkha |
heh |
| 01:24 |
muurkha |
erle told me about this subsampling setting which helped a lot with my wimpy laptop supercomputer |
| 01:25 |
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| 01:25 |
muurkha |
undersampling = 4 |
| 01:25 |
stormchaser3000 |
lol, I would expect it to run reasonably well, but perhaps I was getting my hopes up |
| 01:25 |
muurkha |
I stuck it in my minetest.conf and now I never get below 25 fps |
| 01:25 |
stormchaser3000 |
It does at least work somewhat well on a Pi 400, but that's probably overkill |
| 01:25 |
cheapie |
Yeah, I'm sure I could get the client running faster if I played with some of those settings, but even with just the basics (more sane view range of like 30-50 and most of the eye candy disabled) it was hitting 40 FPS - which is "fine" |
| 01:25 |
Noclip[m] |
Doesn't it even run fine on Raspi? |
| 01:25 |
muurkha |
nice |
| 01:26 |
cheapie |
This CPU is one of those weird ones AMD did for a while where its own integrated graphics are faster than what the CPU can keep up with. |
| 01:26 |
stormchaser3000 |
cheapie: that's basically what I was getting on my Pi 400 when I had window compositing disabled on xfce4 and the viewing-range reduced |
| 01:26 |
farribeiro |
run in raspi 4? |
| 01:27 |
muurkha |
raspi 4 is equivalent to 400 I think |
| 01:27 |
muurkha |
it just doesn't have a keyboard built into it |
| 01:27 |
stormchaser3000 |
I didn't have to disable the basic shaders, though I imagine if I had gone near trees I would have had to have changed the appearance of the leaves |
| 01:27 |
farribeiro |
try out the flathub ... arm64 is supported |
| 01:27 |
stormchaser3000 |
yeah, it can be downloaded from Flathub, but it's also available in the Manjaro repos (though that tends to lag a bit behind) |
| 01:28 |
cheapie |
farribeiro: I'm not sure what difference that makes, basically every distro ever ships MT in a real package manager too. |
| 01:28 |
stormchaser3000 |
I am surprised at how well hexchat works on the pi 400 these days though. I used to get more rolling-shutter effects with gtk2 apps |
| 01:28 |
stormchaser3000 |
Even Ubuntu 10.04 had Minetest 0.3 in it's repos ;) |
| 01:29 |
farribeiro |
also kvirc built with arm64 ... i maintainer |
| 01:29 |
muurkha |
does minetest 0.3 run better on a netbook? |
| 01:29 |
stormchaser3000 |
If you can manage to get 0.3 to compile, then probably |
| 01:29 |
cheapie |
Heck, even Haiku (which isn't Linux) ships Minetest in their repos. They don't really have working 3D acceleration, so performance... isn't great. |
| 01:29 |
stormchaser3000 |
0.3 uses some old C code that doesn't really compile on modern systems without some modifications |
| 01:29 |
cheapie |
They default to burningsvideo, IIRC. |
| 01:29 |
stormchaser3000 |
that's cool to hear Haiku has it |
| 01:30 |
stormchaser3000 |
That's a project I check in on every once in a while |
| 01:31 |
muurkha |
why would it be hard to get 0.3 to compile? |
| 01:31 |
stormchaser3000 |
Old C standards |
| 01:31 |
stormchaser3000 |
Old C standards and modern GCC don't mix very well |
| 01:31 |
muurkha |
I think GCC can still compile C89 and even K&R C |
| 01:31 |
stormchaser3000 |
you can technically get it to compile, but you have to change some include statements |
| 01:32 |
muurkha |
I have occasionally had to tweak stuff from the 90s that does things like write to strings |
| 01:32 |
stormchaser3000 |
the header files in glibc aren't quite the same as they were back then and you can compile it with clang, but I have run into strange results doing that (mapgen was all wonky) |
| 01:33 |
stormchaser3000 |
I think there are a couple source files that need unistd.h nowdays and possibly one more header file that wasn't required back then |
| 01:33 |
muurkha |
oh, sure |
| 01:34 |
muurkha |
it's common for the includes you need to change a bit |
| 01:34 |
muurkha |
but easy to fix |
| 01:41 |
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| 02:32 |
Noclip[m] |
rubenwardy: I some form of admin confirmation required if someone wants to add a new project to contentdb? |
| 02:33 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> you add it, submit it for review, and an editor reviews it |
| 02:33 |
rubenwardy |
.Packages are reviewed by editors. This is mostly to look for issues in the description or licensing, they don't read every line of code |
| 02:34 |
rubenwardy |
Or even any kind of code |
| 02:35 |
Noclip[m] |
But at least it prevents an attacker from just spamming new projects? |
| 02:35 |
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| 02:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> yeah, and all the stuff in package inclusion |
| 02:36 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> and images, etc |
| 02:37 |
Noclip[m] |
Does the review include testing the project? |
| 02:37 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> officially, no |
| 03:03 |
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| 08:15 |
muurkha |
huh, I just found out VanessaE left Minetest in November. that's a huge bummer |
| 08:16 |
muurkha |
I was wondering why I wasn't seeing updates on any of her mods |
| 08:25 |
Oblomov |
oof |
| 08:26 |
muurkha |
she handed off all her servers to different people in the community so the users wouldn't lose their buildings and stuff |
| 08:59 |
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| 13:01 |
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| 13:07 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I'm fooling around with refactoring the OBJ mesh loader in Irrlicht, and things are already breaking. |
| 13:08 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> ooh I've read the obj mesh loader to infer the subset of obj it supports |
| 13:08 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I created an in-memory buffer to fake file loading for my unit tests, but it's incomplete because of limitations with constness ATM. |
| 13:09 |
schwarzwald[m] |
`stringstream::tellg()` isn't const, but `IReadFile::getPos()` is, so I have big problems there. |
| 13:09 |
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| 13:09 |
schwarzwald[m] |
I hardcoded that and the file size to make it compile, but when I loaded the mesh the stdlib threw an exception. |
| 13:14 |
mazes_83 |
I'm looking at memory size for my server, even no player logged in memory usage increase. Is it supposed to ? |
| 13:14 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> Depends on what's running. Mods can cause stuff to load. |
| 13:15 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Sounds like a maybe memleak. May also be Lua doing its thing though; what happens if you call collectgarbage a few times? |
| 13:17 |
mazes_83 |
idk how to call collectgarbage |
| 13:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> With WE you should be able to use //lua |
| 13:17 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Otherwise just grab a mod that does it periodically |
| 13:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> Lua should schedule GC itself, but who knows how it's heuristic works and when it starts to do so |
| 13:18 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> its* |
| 13:19 |
mazes_83 |
ok got it |
| 13:20 |
mazes_83 |
need to restart server to test one or other way |
| 13:26 |
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| 13:35 |
mazes_83 |
got to let the server idle a bit to be able to test |
| 13:36 |
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| 13:38 |
mazes_83 |
second question bit same as first: what can trigger cpu usage when idle (not that much but still > ten times more as an idle firefox window) |
| 13:39 |
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| 13:42 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> You mean in MT specifically? |
| 13:43 |
mazes_83 |
yes |
| 13:44 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> I'd find out what the baseline for the C++ code is by running something barebones like Void Game ... and then anything beyond that, I'd suspect is globalsteps or afters, if no players are on. |
| 13:44 |
mazes_83 |
ok, I will take a look on globalsteps in my mod set |
| 13:45 |
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| 13:46 |
mazes_83 |
one is already suspected (climate_api), I did local changes that dropped drastically this mod cpu usage, but didn't check if it can leak some stuffs |
| 13:48 |
mazes_83 |
may lua code coverage tools help, or am I on the wrong way ? |
| 13:55 |
sfan5 |
the server has a profiler |
| 13:55 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Lol, so that's why it crashed. `c8* buf = new c8[filesize];` with a filesize of -1 probably doesn't work too well. |
| 14:03 |
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| 14:26 |
mazes_83 |
sfan5: the profiler works for memory usage ? Can I use it on server with none connected ? |
| 14:26 |
sfan5 |
cpu usage |
| 15:10 |
mazes_83 |
ok thanks all, I added a guard to just skip globalstep if no player connected in two mods: petz and climate_api: the memory consumption is now stable when server "idle" |
| 15:11 |
mazes_83 |
now I got to see which of those two slowly eats all memory |
| 15:12 |
mazes_83 |
hope to see less swapping on the host. again ty all |
| 15:24 |
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| 15:50 |
MTDiscord |
<Warr1024> If you do isolate it to one specific mod, getting a bug report into the mod's bug tracker would be great |
| 15:57 |
Meowie_Gamer |
hello |
| 16:07 |
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| 16:11 |
Meowie_Gamer |
im kinda tired??? i got tons of sleep |
| 16:14 |
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| 16:57 |
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| 16:58 |
ronoaldo |
Hi! Does anyone know why water_life is no longer on Content DB? https://content.minetest.net/packages/Gundul/water_life/ - it was here, now do not show up on search anymore. |
| 17:09 |
ensayia |
Seems like reaching out to the developer would be the best course of action. If they don't answer... that might be why. |
| 17:09 |
farribeiro |
Gundul |
| 17:09 |
fluxionary |
ronoaldo, possibly check the approval discussion, it might have gotten un-approved for some reason |
| 17:10 |
fluxionary |
(it can take a day to get an email alert about something like that, depending on your email settings) |
| 17:17 |
ronoaldo |
ensayia: thans, since the page with the author/mod no longer exists on ContentDB, I'm trying to find where it was hosted but I'm not finding the mod elsewhere. Searched for the mod in forums also without luck. |
| 17:18 |
ronoaldo |
fluxionary: do you happend to have a link for such page? My search engine attempt landed only to a comment on the mod made by a user, which lead to the same 404 page I linked above |
| 17:18 |
fluxionary |
ronoaldo: oh sorry, i thought you were the mod dev |
| 17:18 |
fluxionary |
i've got a copy of the mod in case it needs to be mirrored somewhere |
| 17:18 |
ronoaldo |
no ,the mod was on my server, and now I don't seem to get it. I do have the mod copy thogh, in the image container of my server so I'll probably need to restore from there. |
| 17:19 |
ronoaldo |
fluxionary: thank you! I got a version pinned on my server, probably going to use it |
| 17:19 |
definitelya |
Here is the repo: https://github.com/berengma/water_life |
| 17:20 |
definitelya |
berengma AKA Gundul |
| 17:20 |
ronoaldo |
oh, cool - that confused me for a few seconds until I saw the Contributors spot at Github lol thanks definitelya |
| 17:21 |
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| 17:21 |
definitelya |
np :) |
| 17:25 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> The author removed it from cdb. Reportedly they took a step back from minetest due to life a while back, and one user claims they left minetest due to some drama on the forums recently, however I can't personally verify that |
| 17:25 |
ronoaldo |
oh, that is unfortunate. thanks for the info Jonathon |
| 17:29 |
ronoaldo |
i also find it annoying that contentdb do not keep older versions archived/downloadable... I download mods during my server build-time and most of TenPlus1 mods have older versions removed :| |
| 17:29 |
ronoaldo |
but that is just for me probably, so... |
| 17:30 |
fluxionary |
on a different topic, do any devs have any idea how a player object passed to an `on_dieplayer` callback would have the name be an empty string and have get_pos return (0,0,0)? i can't find any evidence a mod called it directly. |
| 17:33 |
fluxionary |
ronoaldo, all of TenPlus1's mods are here, you can use any commit you like: https://notabug.org/TenPlus1 |
| 17:35 |
ronoaldo |
yeah, Im using fixed releases from contentdb for reproducible builds, and that is failing so probably going to need to move from it to git commit hashes... wonderful |
| 17:38 |
fluxionary |
using git submodules for that is pretty reliable, e.g. https://github.com/BlockySurvival/bls_mods |
| 17:39 |
ronoaldo |
yeah, I have used git submodules and it is quite painful sometimes - it could probably me doing it wrong tho. |
| 17:39 |
farribeiro |
ronoaldo make a go utility to download from contentdb |
| 17:40 |
fluxionary |
farribeiro, doesn't help if the old versions aren't available |
| 17:40 |
farribeiro |
i thinking do same, but as lua module |
| 17:40 |
ronoaldo |
yep, I have the tool and the issue is that the older versions are removed |
| 17:40 |
farribeiro |
right |
| 17:41 |
farribeiro |
i think a git submodule is a good way to maintain updated |
| 17:42 |
ronoaldo |
I'll probably go nuts and vendor everything and call it a day |
| 17:43 |
farribeiro |
are you writing the month update for your server, ronoaldo ? |
| 17:43 |
ronoaldo |
yep, working on it now, updating for 5.6.1 and doing the mod updates right after |
| 17:43 |
ronoaldo |
the issue is I could not split these as upgrading to 5.6.1 forced me to also update missing mod versions |
| 17:44 |
ronoaldo |
it will be harder to debug if issues arise |
| 17:44 |
mazes_83 |
Warr1024: I did already open pr for some other parts in climate_api |
| 17:44 |
farribeiro |
i opened some issues, ronoaldo, take a look |
| 17:44 |
ronoaldo |
farribeiro: will do, thanks! |
| 17:45 |
mazes_83 |
Warr1024: in fact same part but different issue (cpu), now try to fix memory (if not in petz) |
| 17:45 |
farribeiro |
i will open new issue |
| 17:47 |
farribeiro |
no... just a single commet |
| 17:52 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> ronoaldo: cdb does keep older versions around, looks like tenplus1 probably purged there older ones |
| 17:53 |
mazes_83 |
is it about doors redo ? I introcued some change to it recently |
| 17:53 |
mazes_83 |
introduced |
| 17:53 |
mazes_83 |
* |
| 18:00 |
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| 18:01 |
mazes_83 |
ronoaldo: ? |
| 18:02 |
ronoaldo |
mazes_83: sorry, I could not understand your question ... |
| 18:03 |
mazes_83 |
you said you had one issue with one of tenplus1 mod, if it is doors redo I can maybe help |
| 18:03 |
ronoaldo |
I was mentioning that I was trying to apply some skills in software releases for reproducible builds that I used elsewhere into my Minetest server, and was sharing my failed attempts. Specifically, the attempt to use contentdb as a source of truth. |
| 18:04 |
ronoaldo |
mazes_83: on, no - it is not a specific mod, it is the mod author removing the mod old releases that caused issues to me |
| 18:04 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> i would never use contentdb as a source of truth. always git |
| 18:04 |
mazes_83 |
ok, got it wrong, not readed all very careful |
| 18:05 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> cdb is meant to be user friendly and for non technical users. or a listing service to find mods for more technical users and then use git |
| 18:06 |
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| 18:13 |
ronoaldo |
Jonathon: yes, that makes sense. I tought it was the central repository for minetest mods when I started. There isn't one sadly. By source of truth I mean: point in time released content source of truth. Most git repos don't tag releases so it is a bit harder to figure out what is a "stable" release. |
| 18:13 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> minetest mods in general dont really have releases, probably 90 percent are rolling release |
| 18:14 |
ronoaldo |
Yeah, it gets more difficult to keep my server running then :) probably going to shut it down. |
| 18:15 |
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| 18:17 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> not really, dependabot, etc, services make it rather easy. plenty of servers do it |
| 18:18 |
ronoaldo |
my point is not that it is hard to update the mods, it is hard to debug issues when something breaks |
| 18:18 |
ronoaldo |
updating the mods is as simple as a single command. debugging what broke with everything rolling release is the issue |
| 18:19 |
ronoaldo |
I was relying on a "stable" ping as made by the author, which is as far as we can go with regards to mods I guess |
| 18:19 |
ronoaldo |
What I am realizing is that there is no such thing so it is just pointless |
| 18:20 |
ronoaldo |
The server I have now has around 80G of player generated data on the map (mapgen + player builds + entities + nodes), and all can break with an update. |
| 18:20 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> welcome to software dev in general |
| 18:21 |
Desour |
then just reload the data from the backup that you made before updating |
| 18:21 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> also ^ |
| 18:22 |
ronoaldo |
sorry guys, I appreciate your suggestions but I'm not new to software dev - the whole point I am making is about releasing software. |
| 18:22 |
ronoaldo |
I have two daily backups off site where I host the software, that helps when something is wrong. Yeas I have a snapshot of the code on Docker image which also helps reverting a bad update. |
| 18:23 |
ronoaldo |
This is development 101 perhaps these days? My point is about releasing software and how I was attempting to apply the practices I am used to on my server hosting... but I guess all points are already crystal clear probably :) thanks for the help. |
| 18:24 |
MTDiscord |
<Jonathon> see python 2 -> 3 having small breakages or any other language. |
| 18:24 |
ronoaldo |
Yep :) i suffered a bit from it too |
| 18:25 |
ronoaldo |
I'll have to leave, again, thanks for the comments. |
| 18:34 |
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| 18:35 |
muurkha |
Python 2 -> 3 was extremely unusual; that enormous degree of backwards-incompatibility has never happened in C, Perl, bash, C++, Objective-C, COBOL, FORTRAN, or just about any other language |
| 18:36 |
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| 18:36 |
farribeiro |
lua |
| 18:36 |
Not_Leader |
perl and raku? |
| 18:36 |
muurkha |
Lua is an exception! |
| 18:36 |
muurkha |
it was going to happen in Perl but eventually they renamed Perl 6 to Raku, yeah |
| 18:36 |
muurkha |
Lua doesn't try for backwards-compatibility from one release to the next, even 5.1 to 5.2 |
| 18:36 |
farribeiro |
luajit isn't compatible with PUC Lua 5.4 |
| 18:36 |
muurkha |
well, luajit is Lua 5.1 |
| 18:37 |
muurkha |
but PUC Lua 5.4 isn't backwards-compatible with PUC Lua 5.3, which isn't backwards-compatible with PUC Lua 5.2, either |
| 18:38 |
muurkha |
it's pretty common for *libraries* (such as Minetest mods) to have backwards-compatibility problems, but very unusual for languages |
| 18:38 |
ronoaldo |
Imagine if Python 2 was removed and we only had a git submodule to python 3 available? This is what I was talking about. |
| 18:38 |
MTDiscord |
<GoodClover> LuaJIT is a 5.1 with a bunch of 5.2 features added on top, plus the FFI |
| 18:39 |
Not_Leader |
wait what about idris 1 and 2? |
| 18:40 |
ronoaldo |
What about go 1 and.. wait, there is only Go 1. |
| 18:40 |
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| 18:41 |
farribeiro |
muurkha as lua is a exception, minetest is also. just works with luajit |
| 18:42 |
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| 18:43 |
Desour |
minetest also works with PUC lua |
| 18:43 |
farribeiro |
fails with contentdb |
| 18:43 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> farribeiro: PUC Lua 5.1, that is |
| 18:45 |
Desour |
farribeiro: have u opened an issue? |
| 18:45 |
farribeiro |
yes PUC Lua 5.1 |
| 18:45 |
farribeiro |
for ronoaldo? |
| 18:45 |
Desour |
for puc lua failing with contentdb |
| 18:46 |
farribeiro |
no... |
| 18:46 |
muurkha |
farribeiro: minetest doesn't update to new versions of Lua because Lua is an exception |
| 18:47 |
muurkha |
I mean, Lua is intended to be used that way |
| 18:47 |
MTDiscord |
<luatic> basically yes (also LuaJIT) |
| 18:47 |
muurkha |
Not_Leader: I don't know about Idris |
| 18:47 |
Desour |
we need 8 more issues |
| 18:47 |
muurkha |
I have enough issues for all of us |
| 18:48 |
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| 18:48 |
Desour |
muurkha: what's your name on github? |
| 18:49 |
muurkha |
kragen |
| 18:49 |
Desour |
found 0 issues from u |
| 18:53 |
muurkha |
it was a joke |
| 19:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest: Improve crafting recipe documentation (#12806) 977f656 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/977f656e09c4b542e09ec210b202ba46eb45ac5e (2022-10-01T19:20:28Z) |
| 19:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Desour -> minetest/minetest: Add an item pick up callback (2) (#7712) 22cbc05 https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/22cbc058080127445b69d2137e346ad52f8b3387 (2022-10-01T19:21:06Z) |
| 19:21 |
MinetestBot |
[git] Wuzzy2 -> minetest/minetest_game: Teach screwdriver to rotate 4dir nodes (#2992) 99a7193 https://github.com/minetest/minetest_game/commit/99a719309559b632af65756f380496aa269d4b4a (2022-10-01T19:19:42Z) |
| 19:28 |
muurkha |
Desour: I meant "I have issues" in the sense of "I have psychological problems" :) |
| 19:33 |
Desour |
ah, ok |
| 19:41 |
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| 20:15 |
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| 20:22 |
Teckla |
Do Minetest games update themselves automatically? For example, I'm playing MineCore 5. Just wondering if it'll update itself, or if it requires manual intervention to update. |
| 20:25 |
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| 20:26 |
MTDiscord |
<LandarVargan> You have to update them in the content tab usually |
| 20:31 |
kilbith |
welp, looks like I can play MT in good conditions now: https://i.imgur.com/ARuGx46.png |
| 20:50 |
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| 21:08 |
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| 21:25 |
MTDiscord |
<ElCeejo> 3k USD laptop with linux deeply saddens me |
| 21:41 |
MTDiscord |
<savilli> What about 6K USD desktop with linux? |
| 21:54 |
muurkha |
ElCeejo: send it to me, I'm willing to make the sacrifice |
| 21:56 |
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| 21:57 |
muurkha |
I'll suffer the deep sadness it brings, for your sake |
| 22:02 |
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| 22:07 |
MTDiscord |
<ElCeejo> That'd be up to Kilbith sadly |
| 22:13 |
Teckla |
LandarVargan: Thank you! |
| 22:28 |
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| 22:34 |
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| 22:54 |
Desour |
did you know? there are more closed PRs than closed issues |
| 23:30 |
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| 23:42 |
schwarzwald[m] |
Adding new bugs is a lot more fun than fixing old ones. |
| 23:52 |
MTDiscord |
<ElCeejo> that's a lot documentation grammar corrections |
