| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:22 |
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| 01:50 |
repetitivestrain |
would someone grep contentdb on my behalf for mods specifying compatibility with mineclonia that use: core.get_biome_data, core.registered_biomes, core.register_ore, or access mcl_structures? |
| 01:50 |
repetitivestrain |
thanks in advance |
| 01:51 |
repetitivestrain |
i need to notify all of these mods' authors to update their mods to employ mineclonia's lua replacements for these facilities if they intend for them to support the next release of the game |
| 02:17 |
repetitivestrain |
Blockhead256: are you Obvious-Secretary635 on the reddit board? |
| 02:17 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> that's me, it was automatically assigned to me when I created it through google SSO |
| 02:17 |
repetitivestrain |
i assumed as much haha |
| 02:18 |
repetitivestrain |
after having recognized your manner of speech |
| 02:18 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I wanted Blockhead-Luantist, but oh well |
| 02:18 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> https://old.reddit.com/r/Luanti/comments/1mwf8cc/the_future_of_this_sub/na678pm/ |
| 02:18 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> If I studied the Finnish right, that should actually mean "from Luanti" as well |
| 02:19 |
repetitivestrain |
Hmm |
| 02:19 |
repetitivestrain |
btw, how would you recommend that i set about alerting all mineclonia modders who access biome data or define structures or ores to https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?p=447210? |
| 02:22 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> A Reddit post (I could help if you want), and probably get someone who mixes on the Discord circles to put the word out there |
| 02:22 |
repetitivestrain |
Yeah, I'd appreciate that |
| 02:22 |
repetitivestrain |
thanks |
| 02:23 |
repetitivestrain |
I haven't a reddit account |
| 02:23 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I have a sole-purpose one for Luanti, and that's it |
| 02:23 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> Hopefully we can get you that zipgrep on ContentDB as well, and you can post to others' issue trackers from the packages it finds (threads failing the presence of an issue tracker... not usually a qualtiy package) |
| 02:24 |
repetitivestrain |
that would be capital too, yeah |
| 02:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> reddit taken care of |
| 02:38 |
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| 04:00 |
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| 05:00 |
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| 06:33 |
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| 07:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> repetitivestrain: https://content.luanti.org/zipgrep/60a286ac-e753-4dae-b9d2-b2362286c1fa/ |
| 07:56 |
repetitivestrain |
Thank you! |
| 07:56 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I can't filter by game support, but here is registered_biomes |
| 07:57 |
repetitivestrain |
what about get_biome_data and mcl_structures? |
| 08:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> the former is kind of rare, but we might get to it |
| 08:01 |
repetitivestrain |
OK, thanks |
| 08:01 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I did a search for mcl_structures in `mod.conf` as well, but, .. technicaly difficulties |
| 08:02 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I shouldn't do too many of these, it's a big load I think |
| 08:02 |
repetitivestrain |
ah, i understand |
| 08:02 |
repetitivestrain |
how many packages exist on cdb? |
| 08:02 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I think 2706 mods were searched for your first result there |
| 08:02 |
repetitivestrain |
if it's not too many, and there's bandwidth enough, i could attempt to download all of them and grep locally |
| 08:03 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> you could use the API to filter by mineclone games too |
| 08:03 |
repetitivestrain |
oh, good |
| 08:03 |
repetitivestrain |
i'll try that |
| 08:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> the zipgrep is not particularly sophisticated https://github.com/luanti-org/contentdb/blob/master/app/blueprints/zipgrep/__init__.py |
| 09:49 |
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| 10:17 |
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| 11:27 |
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| 11:52 |
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| 14:32 |
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| 14:36 |
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| 15:08 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> one thing i noticed is that luanti 5.14 audibly (fans) stresses the computer more than minecraft on similar (or higher) complexity scenes |
| 15:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> and i am playing online so this is more based on rendering |
| 15:09 |
repetitivestrain |
luanti is generally much less performant than minecraft, yes |
| 15:09 |
cheapie |
If you're able to, try testing with sfan5's array textures PR and see how that changes for oyu |
| 15:09 |
cheapie |
you* |
| 15:10 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> mesh nodes are particularly bad for performance |
| 15:10 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> i don't see any mesh nodes in the area (ctf mtg) |
| 15:10 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> ctf is a cousin of MTG.. close enough |
| 15:10 |
MTDiscord |
<et086> repetitivestrain: was that actually tested, in my experience luanti was faster i think |
| 15:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> luanti is faster on lower end devices |
| 15:11 |
MTDiscord |
<et086> why? |
| 15:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> doesn't use threads as much as it could |
| 15:11 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> Luanti on MTG plays better than stock Minecraft, but.. you know.. there's not much happening in MTG |
| 15:11 |
MTDiscord |
<et086> if its not able to use all of the power of a high end device then its a bug |
| 15:12 |
repetitivestrain |
et086: i'm curious where that was tested and with what settings, as minecraft's are generally much more demanding than minetest's |
| 15:12 |
MTDiscord |
<et086> Blockhead256: im thinking specifically rendering |
| 15:12 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> et086: It's pretty simple why it's like this. Mojang has millions of dollars of budget and Luanti has near zero budget, for similarly aged games |
| 15:12 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> also see this pr: https://github.com/luanti-org/luanti/pull/16574 |
| 15:12 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> hopefully it gets merged |
| 15:12 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> MOjang literally have their own rendering library for Java |
| 15:12 |
repetitivestrain |
Blaze3d and minecraft's rendering code is actually not well engineered |
| 15:13 |
repetitivestrain |
in software respects |
| 15:13 |
sfan5 |
i think at this point the "luanti is more suited for lower end hardware" fact that keeps being repeated is no longer true |
| 15:13 |
repetitivestrain |
what it does correctly is that the render section culler is much better than luanti's |
| 15:13 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> and yet they overcame the decline in performance that happened after it exited beta but before current day minecraft |
| 15:13 |
sfan5 |
people were saying this back in the 0.4.x days |
| 15:13 |
cheapie |
sfan5: I tried Minecraft on some mediocre hardware once, it was a slideshow even with nothing going on |
| 15:14 |
repetitivestrain |
and it performs texture atlasing and simpler distance-based translucency sorting, so that rendering each section needn't issue drawcalls to switch materials dozens of times per frame |
| 15:14 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> repetitivestrain: given Luanti has cubic chunks, is it as easy to make the culler performant? |
| 15:15 |
repetitivestrain |
Minecraft's render sections are also 16x16x16 cubes, just as ours are |
| 15:15 |
repetitivestrain |
https://tomcc.github.io/2014/08/31/visibility-1.html |
| 15:16 |
repetitivestrain |
this is a broad description of minecraft's culler written by a mojang engineer, although the algorithm has been altered slightly since it was posted |
| 15:17 |
repetitivestrain |
cheapie: if minecraft was a slideshow, your machine either didn't support enough memory or threads for the jvm to operate at optimum performance, or you enabled more advanced settings in minecraft than you did in luanti |
| 15:19 |
cheapie |
repetitivestrain: I did say mediocre hardware, which probably implies the former |
| 15:20 |
repetitivestrain |
minecraft is one of those abysmal java programs which allocate hundreds of megabytes of garbage in temporary objects every second, and a new array whenever a vertex is appended to a vertexbuffer, and use java streams in hot rendering execution paths, or a BlockPos is moved, but the combination of the jvm's extraordinary capabilities, a better section culler, and texture atlasing enable it to run circles around luanti at the moment |
| 15:20 |
repetitivestrain |
cheapie: you shouldn't run java where java wasn't meant to run |
| 15:21 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> oracle would gladly tell you you can run java even on embedded devices.. |
| 15:21 |
repetitivestrain |
Oracle's lying through their teeth as is their wont |
| 15:22 |
repetitivestrain |
the jvm's performance is simply extraordinary, even in the presence of code that would induce revulsion in a c or c++ programmer |
| 15:23 |
repetitivestrain |
but for this performance you sacrifice memory and threads |
| 15:23 |
repetitivestrain |
and if you can't provide this tribute, it'll fail you |
| 15:24 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I can only think of two games worse for memory, BeamNG.drive and VRChat, and in those it's due to UGC |
| 15:24 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> actually I won't say UGC for BeamNG, because apparently their new limousine scenario eats my 32 GB of RAM.. still not sure if memory leak or just too much memory |
| 15:25 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> birdlover32767: is there any reduction in performance compared to 5.13? |
| 15:25 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> doesn't feel like it |
| 15:25 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> not any faster or slower |
| 15:25 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> that's the main thing. The devs are aware that the performance could definitely be improved |
| 15:27 |
sfan5 |
we are aware of many things :) |
| 15:27 |
sfan5 |
whether they change is a different question |
| 15:28 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> yes, now, if only each time something were mentioned, some unknown mechanism just gave us free progress on it... |
| 15:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> I'm glad to have gotten gltf together, even with teething problems |
| 15:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> *not taking credit at all |
| 15:29 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> LMD et al. |
| 15:31 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> JoshiahWI as well, and reviewers |
| 15:36 |
cheapie |
repetitivestrain: So if I shouldn't run Java on mediocre hardware, then that means I should run Minecraft on mediocre hardware, which means that Luanti is the better choice on said mediocre hardware, which was the whole point to begin with |
| 15:37 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> b does not imply c |
| 15:39 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> as much as I want there to be a voxel game option for low end hardware, and Minetest was that by de facto or de jure for a long time |
| 15:41 |
[MatrxMT] |
<repetitivestrain> yes, but players with wanting or mediocre hardware are far outnumbered by those with acceptably modern hardware |
| 15:43 |
[MatrxMT] |
<repetitivestrain> and it'd be a blind alley for luanti to pride itself upon outperforming Minecraft on moribund hardware that isn't fit for purpose to begin with, when Minecraft trounces it effortlessly on post-2018 hardware actually relevant for video gaming |
| 15:46 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> > going down when under sea level costs +1 step |
| 15:46 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> (Minecraft's culler) |
| 15:46 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> this shows us that optimisations are often applied with specific use case context in mind. Not all games for Luanti will even have a "sea" |
| 15:47 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> but, the heuristic penalty is still probably applicable relative to the camera |
| 16:04 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> just for comparison here are basically the same scenes in minecraft and luanti |
| 16:05 |
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| 16:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<system> file screenshot_20251017_190238.png too big to download (2366726 > allowed size: 1000000) |
| 16:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> screenshot_20251017_190238.png |
| 16:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<system> file 2025-10-17_19.04.15.png too big to download (2198344 > allowed size: 1000000) |
| 16:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> 2025-10-17_19.04.15.png |
| 16:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> *facepalm* IRC can't see those |
| 16:05 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> luanti noticeably jitters more when i move |
| 16:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> use a website like imgbb or imgur or something |
| 16:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> ... i though they were links to matrix's page or something |
| 16:06 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> https://irc.luanti.org/luanti/2025-10-17 |
| 16:07 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> imgbb is not loading |
| 16:07 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> to be honest that looks different from the URLs I have seen before that point to the poster's homeserver. But those would usually fail to load too IIRC |
| 16:07 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> another option https://forum.luanti.org/viewtopic.php?t=156 |
| 16:08 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> here they are |
| 16:08 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> https://ibb.co/4ZbzY43y |
| 16:09 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> https://ibb.co/0pwfrpv7 |
| 16:10 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> basically the same framerate, but you say the computer fans go harder in Luanti? |
| 16:12 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> yes |
| 16:12 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> also, when i join a server the fans stay deactivated in minecraft but they activate in luanti |
| 16:12 |
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| 16:13 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> Minecraft is more able to use threads, Luanti has a load of Lua stuff happening on one thread |
| 16:14 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> the system monitor shows the cpu being used more than minecraft |
| 16:14 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> probably that |
| 16:15 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> well, hard to say, the metric that that uses can vary. 100% of one thread or 4x25% of another, couldn't say what effect that has on temperature and fans |
| 16:15 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> *numbers completely fictional |
| 16:16 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> https://ibb.co/nTMspbW |
| 16:16 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> the first part is of luanti, the second of minecraft |
| 16:20 |
FeXoR |
birdlover32767: Does toggling transparency for leaves change much? |
| 16:20 |
[MatrxMT] |
<Blockhead256> *reminder that's an option in both games* |
| 16:21 |
* FeXoR |
likes the nearly identical terrain for the comparison by the way ;) |
| 16:21 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> it's mineclonia's new map generator |
| 16:25 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> after enabling opaque leaves (minecraft only has a setting for "fast" graphics but it didn't change anything) |
| 16:25 |
[MatrxMT] |
<birdlover32767> https://ibb.co/TMH3CkXH |
| 16:31 |
FeXoR |
That doesn't look like an extraordinary change. Thank you birdlover32767 for your effort! ;) |
| 16:34 |
FeXoR |
From my experience Mintest CPU load changed significantly somewhere between 4.something and 5.6.something. Could run 4.x with 2.5k view range and about 80% usage on highest used core and now it's at 100% with 500 view range basically all the time. |
| 16:35 |
FeXoR |
I'm not sure if it's related to graphics or block loading or whatever. Are there profiler statistics for the different Luanti components maybe? |
| 16:44 |
sfan5 |
press f6 |
| 16:51 |
FeXoR |
Good hint! :p |
| 16:55 |
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servidorminetest joined #luanti |
| 16:55 |
servidorminetest |
How Privs all ? |
| 16:56 |
servidorminetest |
I,m trying creat a mintest server for education |
| 16:56 |
SwissalpS |
servidorminetest: qué querias preguntar? |
| 16:57 |
SwissalpS |
and you want an admin to have all privs? |
| 16:57 |
servidorminetest |
pretendo saber como atribuir os poderes todos a um utilizador Admim que será o professor para gerir os privilégisos dos alunos |
| 16:58 |
servidorminetest |
Estou a usar um pc linux com a ajuda do chat gpt |
| 16:58 |
SwissalpS |
The admin needs 'privs' priv to hand out privs to players |
| 16:58 |
FeXoR |
Only draw frame and update draw list are close to 1k from the values given in ms. So I guess it graphics related. |
| 16:58 |
SwissalpS |
servidorminetest: falas portugues? |
| 16:59 |
FeXoR |
SwissalpS: And now - for the international Luanti community - in English, please. Oops, wrong channel x) |
| 17:00 |
* SwissalpS |
hunches his shoulders in shame |
| 17:00 |
servidorminetest |
Sim, falo português |
| 17:01 |
servidorminetest |
instalei o luanti no pc linux com a ajuda do chatgpt |
| 17:01 |
servidorminetest |
através da consola terminal do linux´ |
| 17:03 |
|
mrkubax10 joined #luanti |
| 17:03 |
SwissalpS |
-> /grant <playername> <priv>[,<priv>...] |
| 17:04 |
SwissalpS |
normally the admin account already has the 'privs' priv if I'm not mistaken |
| 17:04 |
SwissalpS |
log in as admin and do /grant <teachername> privs |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
servidorminetest servidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ awk -F: '{print NR") user="$1, "privs="$3, "last_login="$4}' ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
1) user=Admin privs=shout,teleport,interact,home last_login=1760719267 |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
2) user=aluno2 privs=home,interact,shout,teleport last_login=1760713254 |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
3) user=jogadorteste privs=home,interact,shout,teleport last_login=1760718527 |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
4) user=teste privs=home,interact,shout,teleport last_login=1760712768 |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
servidorminetestservidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ sudo systemctl stop luanti-server.service |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
[sudo] senha para servidorminetest: |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
servidorminetestservidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ cp ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt.bak |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
servidorminetestservidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ awk -F: -v OFS=":" '$1=="Admin"{$3="all"}1' \ |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt > ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt.new && \ |
| 17:05 |
ShadowBot |
servidorminetest: An error has occurred and has been logged. Please contact this bot's administrator for more information. |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
mv ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt.new ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
servidorminetestservidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ awk -F: '$1=="Admin"{print "Admin -> privs="$3, "last_login="$4}' ~/.minetest/worlds/world/auth.txt |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
Admin -> privs=all last_login=1760719267 |
| 17:05 |
servidorminetest |
servidorminetestservidorminetest-N56VM:~/Secretária$ sudo systemctl start luanti-server.service |
| 17:05 |
|
servidorminetest was kicked by ShadowBot: Highlight flood detected. |
| 17:07 |
FeXoR |
(I guess chacne the line with the admin to: privs=shout,teleport,interact,home,privs) |
| 17:08 |
FeXoR |
*change |
| 17:18 |
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|
Topic for #luanti is now The official Luanti (formerly Minetest) channel | General, player and modding discussion is on-topic. If in doubt, post here | Responses may take a while, be patient | Rules: https://dev.luanti.org/irc/#rules | Development: #luanti-dev | Server list: https://luanti.org/servers | IRC logs: https://irc.luanti.org/ |
| 18:55 |
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| 19:04 |
sfan5 |
yearly server reboot |
| 19:04 |
Krock |
I was scared for 1.5 minutes |
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